Predictions for job(s) in the next expansion?

I'll now try to grade going from 1 to 5 which will represent the chance they have to be in 6.0 depending of the four points listed above (purely subjective).
From more to less probable :

Geomancer :

• Weapon diversity : Already satisfied, he use a bell which is not used by any other classes
• Job diversity : He can fullfill the role of a healer or a caster DPS
• Job uniqueness : One job actually use earth as one of their primary magic which is WHM, but since ShB WHM lose their earth / wind ability to purely light one, that let room for a Geomancer job to go. I feel like this one can be pretty unique with ground / battlefield mechanics, but I also think it's pretty complex to implement it.
• Job popularity : Appear in more than 4 main FF games, 3 Tactics.

Note : 4 (Most likely)

Chemist :

• Weapon diversity : Claws in FF10, a Flail in FF1, but appart from that nothing really special
• Job diversity : As a Healer or ranged DPS
• Job uniqueness : Mixing different element you could extract from ennemies with different gauge in order to create elixir can lead to a really interesting gameplay in my opinion.
• Job popularity : 3 main FF games and multiple Tactics.

Note : 4 (Most likely)

Time Mage :

• Weapon diversity : Time mage in original game don't have a special weapon for them, but we can easely imagine a hourglass as a weapon for example
• Job diversity : It can be either a healer or a caster DPS
• Job uniqueness : Not difficult to imagine that core mechanic will give time related utilities to their party (Haste, Cooldown Reduction, Speed) which is not made by any job so far. The only downside I can think about implementing Time Mage is about the balance that'll be needed in order to not make it essential in every end-game content considering the fact he can grant haste for example.
• Job popularity : 2 main FF games and some Tactic games.

Note : 4 (Most likely)

Mystic Knight / Spellblade :

• Weapon diversity : Single-handed sword / runic weapon is enough to be differentiated with the PLD
• Job diversity : A melee DPS
• Job uniqueness : Having a main weaponskill combo with multiple runes to activate and change the effects of certains weaponskills could be an idea.
• Job popularity : One main FF game and multiple Tactics.

Note : 4 (Most likely)

[2/4]

Beast Master :

• Weapon diversity : Use a huge variety of weapon depending of original game : Whip, instrument, Scythe to enumerate the most unique.
• Job diversity : Most likely a DPS but which one ? Pretty difficult to say, if he control pet but hit.
• Job uniqueness : Pretty similar to SMN in a way, but can really focused on capturing wild pet / tame them.
• Job popularity : 3 main FF games and 2 Tactics games.

Note : 3 (Maybe)
I think that Beast Master is more suited to be a limited job due to the fact that he want to capture / control different beast he encounter during his journey, and I've heard another limited job was planned so maybe it's him ? (If someone can find the source)

Gambler :

• Weapon diversity : Gambler use card and / or dice as a weapon, so first point checked
• Job diversity : I think it can be either a ranged or a caster DPS
• Job uniqueness : Random is a word that inspire fear in term of gameplay, but dice roll based combo that determine a combo to use in order to DPS could be an idea, and lead to a pretty unique playstyle compared to usual rigid rotation, but I don't think a balance team really want this to appear.
• Job popularity : In 6 main FF jobs, with Caith Sith in it though.

Note : 3 (Maybe)

Green Mage :

• Weapon diversity : Use a hammer or mace, so it's ok.
• Job diversity : Healer or Caster DPS.
• Job uniqueness : With the fact SMN tend to be less DoT dependant, maybe a pure DoT and debuff mage could make something, but nothing really extraordinary.
• Job popularity : Only FF Tactics Advance 2 and S, we know the Green mage more by his name.

Note : 2 (Less likely)

Sage :

• Weapon diversity : Another staff/rod jobs ?
• Job diversity : Healer or caster DPS
• Job uniqueness : Lorewise, nothing is unique from using black magics and white magics, and the fact that it's an upgraded version of RDM in many ways make it pretty worth nothing.
• Job popularity : 2 main FF games, 3 Tactics, the jobs existence is known at least

Note : 1 (Improbable)

Mime

• Weapon diversity : Nothing unique
• Job diversity : Everything and nothing ?
• Job uniqueness : Litteraly nothing unique, BLU at least copy and learn from ennemy
• Job popularity : Appear in 2 main FF games and multiple tactics.

Note : 1 (Improbable)

[3/4]

Honorable mentions :

• Puppetmaster which can be in the same situation as Beastmaster, so as a Limited Job or maybe a melee DPS
• Bishop is too similar to WHM / is WHM in certain games.
• Illusionist are described like global mage who can touch every ennemies in Tactics, so nothing really worthy here
• Orator can be interesting, but maybe too niche ?
• A new unique job or a really niche one like astromancer in HW !
• And many others ...

Here we are, personally, I really want to see the Time Mage as a caster DPS who can grant haste to party and have a DPS rotation based on reducing cooldowns of other skills (maybe too op though).

What do you think ? I can keep updating this little thread if you want.

[4/4]

Most people don't realise this but Orator is actually wrapped up in Scholar, in a similar way that Astro has parts of Time Mage.

It's Strategem and Tactics skills are literally the SCH shouting superior strategies to party members to aid them.
While the Japanese names for Broil spells essentially translate into something like 'shouting obscenities' or 'heated argument'.
Indomitability refers to ones willpower or courage, basically encouraging your party members.
Recitation is the act of repeating a saying or a mantra.
Consolation, to comfort someone.

Basically everything that isn't overtly Fey is just the Scholar shouting instructions to party members or insults at enemies to boost/lower morale respectively.


So I think for the same reason that AST has Time mage Elements, and WHM has Geomancer elements, and SCH has Orator elements, we won't be seeing any of these as Healer jobs.
However, with the reduction in Geo/Time based skills from WHM/AST, Time Mage and Geomancer could potentially have room in the Caster DPS role.


I also don't think we'll be seeing Spellblade/Rune Fencer as a melee job, because it shares too much with Red mage, especially as Red Mage already has some skills used by XI's Rune Fencer job.
There is however room for a re-imagining of Mystic Knight, as this isn't not exactly the same thing as Rune Fencer, but it would not wield a single-handed sword.
There's potential for it to wield a Mace or Hammer, as these are melee weapons that have been used by mage-like and armoured jobs in the past alike.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Most people don't realise this but Orator is actually wrapped up in Scholar, in a similar way that Astro has parts of Time Mage.

It's Strategem and Tactics skills are literally the SCH shouting superior strategies to party members to aid them.
While the Japanese names for Broil spells essentially translate into something like 'shouting obscenities' or 'heated argument'.
Indomitability refers to ones willpower or courage, basically encouraging your party members.
Recitation is the act of repeating a saying or a mantra.
Consolation, to comfort someone.

Basically everything that isn't overtly Fey is just the Scholar shouting instructions to party members or insults at enemies to boost/lower morale respectively.


So I think for the same reason that AST has Time mage Elements, and WHM has Geomancer elements, and SCH has Orator elements, we won't be seeing any of these as Healer jobs.
However, with the reduction in Geo/Time based skills from WHM/AST, Time Mage and Geomancer could potentially have room in the Caster DPS role.


I also don't think we'll be seeing Spellblade/Rune Fencer as a melee job, because it shares too much with Red mage, especially as Red Mage already has some skills used by XI's Rune Fencer job.
There is however room for a re-imagining of Mystic Knight, as this isn't not exactly the same thing as Rune Fencer, but it would not wield a single-handed sword.
There's potential for it to wield a Mace or Hammer, as these are melee weapons that have been used by mage-like and armoured jobs in the past alike.

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Not to mention Scholar AF being the Orator set!

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

It's Strategem and Tactics skills are literally the SCH shouting superior strategies to party members to aid them.
While the Japanese names for Broil spells essentially translate into something like 'shouting obscenities' or 'heated argument'.
Indomitability refers to ones willpower or courage, basically encouraging your party members.
Recitation is the act of repeating a saying or a mantra.
Consolation, to comfort someone.

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Totally forgotten about this, you're totally right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

So I think for the same reason that AST has Time mage Elements, and WHM has Geomancer elements, and SCH has Orator elements, we won't be seeing any of these as Healer jobs.
However, with the reduction in Geo/Time based skills from WHM/AST, Time Mage and Geomancer could potentially have room in the Caster DPS role.

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I don't completely agree, however, the fact that nowaday AST time magic is now completely inexistant after the rework and WHM Earth + Wind spells have been replaced by light spells (Dia and Glare) and if we think of the possible futur healer rework, I think Geomancer and Time Mage as healer are not impossible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I also don't think we'll be seeing Spellblade/Rune Fencer as a melee job, because it shares too much with Red mage, especially as Red Mage already has some skills used by XI's Rune Fencer job.
There is however room for a re-imagining of Mystic Knight, as this isn't not exactly the same thing as Rune Fencer, but it would not wield a single-handed sword.
There's potential for it to wield a Mace or Hammer, as these are melee weapons that have been used by mage-like and armoured jobs in the past alike.

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Can agree, though I think we don't see the spellblade the same way and is totally different from RDM who is only a user of black magics / white magics in a way, even with his sword combo, we still have room for a sword spell fighter (and much more oriented melee too).

Thank you for the time you have put into this!

I am definitely of the thought we will be getting a healer and a caster.

I think we will be getting some form of chemist as healer because as a dps I feel it would go the rifle route from Tactics and therefore an odd spot to compete with MCH in the ranged physical spot, while not stepping on any toes in the healer role.

And Geomancer for caster strictly due to it’s history in the series as a whole, as well as a class that has comparisons to both AST and CNJ (no matter how vague or in passing) shouldn’t be put in a role with those two classes.

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Originally Posted by Daroach

I don't completely agree, however, the fact that nowaday AST time magic is now completely inexistant after the rework and WHM Earth + Wind spells have been replaced by light spells (Dia and Glare) and if we think of the possible futur healer rework, I think Geomancer and Time Mage as healer are not impossible.

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I think AST and WHM still harbour a lot of Time/Geo aspects.

Have to remember in Japan, it has never been just Time magic, it's called 'Spacetime Magic'.
AST still has Gravity, the signature Time DPS spell, still has Lightspeed, and it's roots still go back to the Ishgardian Astrologers who wear Time Mage outfits.
Not to mention, AST is still fundamentally based on space and time. Space in the sense that it reads celestial bodies, Time in the sense that it predicts peoples futures.
It may not be a classic Time Mage anymore, but there's more than enough there to clash with an actual Time Mage as a healer, which is why I think if Time Mage does become a job, it'll have to be Caster DPS, so that it can draw parallels with AST in a similar way to SCH/SMN.

Likewise with WHM. It still has its roots in Conjury, it still even has it's Earth and Wind spells below level 70, and you can't just ignore everything below level 70.
Geomancy is still compared to Conjury and AST's Divination in the lore, so there's no escaping its similarities.
A Geomancer healer would clash far too much with WHM, as it would still essentially have to have a similar DPS kit, that is based around Earth, Wind and Water, and so it would be almost identical to WHM in any content below 70.
Again, this can be overcome by making it a Caster DPS, and drawing those parallels with WHM similarly as with SCH/SMN.

The problem here is that I don't think this game has room for TWO more Caster DPS, so we'll be choosing one of these.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

limit

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Once again I agree with everything Seraphor is saying.

I don't see the SE team pushing past 4 of any role anytime soon outside maybe a melee dps later on to keep that very vocal playerbase from mass cliff jumping.

As for Time Mage vs Geomancer competing for that coveted 4th caster slot, I don't think there is much competition. Just with the amount they are still adding things to the game here and there about Geomancer as a class/school of magic. Hell since 5.0 alone we have gotten confirmation that the one Geomancer npc we have access to has finally opened his school for Geomancy in the 80 AST quests, to the newest mog station mount having to do with Geomancy. (Then again every Doman mount ties into Geomancy)

Granted we have no precedent, but I don't think they would continually add so much involving a classic FF staple class, just to have it as cute flavor text. They have have been adding little Geo backstory tidbits or straight up dungeons since 4.0 and we are approaching 5.3. That seems like a lot of effort just to be like "hope y'all enjoyed the flavor text :)".

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

Once again I agree with everything Seraphor is saying.

I don't see the SE team pushing past 4 of any role anytime soon outside maybe a melee dps later on to keep that very vocal playerbase from mass cliff jumping.

As for Time Mage vs Geomancer competing for that coveted 4th caster slot, I don't think there is much competition. Just with the amount they are still adding things to the game here and there about Geomancer as a class/school of magic. Hell since 5.0 alone we have gotten confirmation that the one Geomancer npc we have access to has finally opened his school for Geomancy in the 80 AST quests, to the newest mog station mount having to do with Geomancy. (Then again every Doman mount ties into Geomancy)

Granted we have no precedent, but I don't think they would continually add so much involving a classic FF staple class, just to have it as cute flavor text. They have have been adding little Geo backstory tidbits or straight up dungeons since 4.0 and we are approaching 5.3. That seems like a lot of effort just to be like "hope y'all enjoyed the flavor text :)".

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The only problem is that the jobs in 6.0 will likely start at 70, and almost certainly not at 80.
So they can't really use this new school for Geomancy as the starting point.

It could be an entirely separate branch of Geomancy. Yanxian rather than Hingashi.
Or it could join up with that school of Geomancy at level 80.

Seeing as it would start in one of the three starting cities, it would likely start in Gridania, as it doesn't yet have a caster dps job. Which would place it perfectly to deal with its similarities to Conjury.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The only problem is that the jobs in 6.0 will likely start at 70, and almost certainly not at 80.
So they can't really use this new school for Geomancy as the starting point.

It could be an entirely separate branch of Geomancy. Yanxian rather than Hingashi.
Or it could join up with that school of Geomancy at level 80.

Seeing as it would start in one of the three starting cities, it would likely start in Gridania, as it doesn't yet have a caster dps job. Which would place it perfectly to deal with its similarities to Conjury.

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I am not sure I am understanding the first point correctly. The Ast quest has Kyokuho saying he has it opened, not that there is any level requirement to join it. Since Kyo is technically level 70 as is. I would never expect the new jobs to start at 80, especially with Kugane being a level 70 hub.

Possibly I missed something but I don't remember anything about levels in the final story quest. He said he needed a few summers to open it and he followed through. But I also don't expect us to learn there either, was just using the school as a story/talking point!

I also fully expect it to start in Gridania.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

I am not sure I am understanding the first point correctly. The Ast quest has Kyokuho saying he has it opened, not that there is any level requirement to join it. Since Kyo is technically level 70 as is. I would never expect the new jobs to start at 80, especially with Kugane being a level 70 hub.

Possibly I missed something but I don't remember anything about levels in the final story quest. He said he needed a few summers to open it and he followed through. But I also don't expect us to learn there either, was just using the school as a story/talking point!

I also fully expect it to start in Gridania.

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Just that they're not going to place a level 70 job quest chronologically after a level 80 one.
In fact I'm not sure they've ever crossed over job quests before, apart from Estinien joining the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Just that they're not going to place a level 70 job quest chronologically after a level 80 one.
In fact I'm not sure they've ever crossed over job quests before, apart from Estinien joining the MSQ.

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To be fair him establishing the school is like 70 quest, he just mentions it being open and training students in the 80 one, but I see your point. It probably is more likely Geo will come from an unrelated PC and the quest chain for the job will probably circle over to Kyokuho and his school. Maybe one of the Doma Geomancers will resurface to train Eorzeans in hope of revitalizing the art. We never really find out what happened to all the Geomancers that defended Doma so it'd be cool to tie that back in.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Just that they're not going to place a level 70 job quest chronologically after a level 80 one.
In fact I'm not sure they've ever crossed over job quests before, apart from Estinien joining the MSQ.

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Okay I get what you’re saying now and I agree. I would much prefer us to get access to Yanxian Geomancy instead of Hingan.

It’s always been my crackhead theory that Gostetsu will return and with him, our access to Geomancy.

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Originally Posted by Daroach

Totally forgotten about this, you're totally right.



I don't completely agree, however, the fact that nowaday AST time magic is now completely inexistant after the rework and WHM Earth + Wind spells have been replaced by light spells (Dia and Glare) and if we think of the possible futur healer rework, I think Geomancer and Time Mage as healer are not impossible.



Can agree, though I think we don't see the spellblade the same way and is totally different from RDM who is only a user of black magics / white magics in a way, even with his sword combo, we still have room for a sword spell fighter (and much more oriented melee too).

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Very good overall analysis. I would add Sage is a bit more than just two FF games though. FFIII, FFIV, FFIX (I would argue Kuja is basically a Sage given his gimmick currently is mixing Black and White Magic), FFE, FFTA, and FFTA2, and that’s just off the top of my head. Oh, and Mobius. While it doesn’t have much in the way of defining features that can work for it as much as against it. It’s why we got Scholar after all, it’s basically an entirely made up job even if it shares a name with a recurring one. Warrior is the same way.

And I would agree broadly with your points on possible jobs. The only addendum I’d make is that I don’t think a Melee DPS is plausible. It would push the job category into five. Oh, and as a possible job Onmyouji. Though it’s really only appeared in FFT it has been mentioned specifically by Yoshida. I’d also count it as the precursor to Green Mage, and at least as a magic category Status Magic is a thing in XII and VI as well which should bump up its status a bit.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

Oh, and as a possible job Onmyouji. Though it’s really only appeared in FFT it has been mentioned specifically by Yoshida. I’d also count it as the precursor to Green Mage, and at least as a magic category Status Magic is a thing in XII and VI as well which should bump up its status a bit.

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Status magic and debuffer jobs won't make it into XIV without a huge change to the way status effects and debuffs are treated by combat design. Look at how much NIN's Trick Attack already breaks things in the current system! Onmyouji seems to have bundled into some of RDM's mana balance theme (thanks for pointing that out previously BasicBlake!) so I'd much sooner expect to see GEO as a caster.

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Originally Posted by KaerisKlyne

Status magic and debuffer jobs won't make it into XIV without a huge change to the way status effects and debuffs are treated by combat design. Look at how much NIN's Trick Attack already breaks things in the current system! Onmyouji seems to have bundled into some of RDM's mana balance theme (thanks for pointing that out previously BasicBlake!) so I'd much sooner expect to see GEO as a caster.

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My point wasn't "if we get Onmyouji they'll be debuffers" but "Onmyouji in FFT are about status magic, and I would lump it in with the category of Green Mages". If we get them in XIV they'll probably be different.

And any job can be refluffed and reframed relative to existing lore. So whatever Onmyouji do currently has zero bearing on what they could do with it as a job.

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Originally Posted by KaerisKlyne

Status magic and debuffer jobs won't make it into XIV without a huge change to the way status effects and debuffs are treated by combat design. Look at how much NIN's Trick Attack already breaks things in the current system! Onmyouji seems to have bundled into some of RDM's mana balance theme (thanks for pointing that out previously BasicBlake!) so I'd much sooner expect to see GEO as a caster.

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Not only that but Ony is stated as being the THM Fire/Blizzard/Thunder to CNJ-Geo’s Water/Wind/Earth, while also being involved in divination and illegal blood magic/sacrifice.

And in regards to other things, sure the devs could shuffle around whatever they would like, they tend to not do it to such drastic degrees though.

Yoshi P also didn’t refer to Oracle by name, someone brought it up when we was talking about the caster he had in the works and people were asking him what it was like, and they mentioned Oracle and he went “Yeah!” Which could really mean anything at this point. Since Geomancer in general has been used as a “catch all” when it comes to any form of eastern magic in this game. Most caster pvp/tome weapons for level 70 have backing in 14 lore with Geomancy. SMN/SCH books? Use Geomancy to enhance their magics. BLM staff? Used in Geomantic rituals. AST globe? Used in Geomantic divination. The list really goes on. They really were all over the place before Swallow’s Compass. Though I would love to see the actual interview not just bits and pieces scattered on a few different websites.

1. And then they introduce "X Onmyouji" which does Y things instead. We've had that literally happen with Astrologian after all, and basically the same thing with Gunbreaker, at least. Someone was kicked out of the Onmyouji group because they tampered with whatever, and because of that they don't work the same way as a normal Onmyouji, and then they pass the knowledge on to you because *insert any number of reasons here*. Easy suggestion. Ancient Onmyouji Soul Gem, before the current ones lost their way, now you too can do *insert blank here* instead of the odd twisted version they do. Another simple, easy suggestion. I could continue. If it's easy enough to resolve with the most basic of lore suggestions it's hardly insurmountable.

2. As I said above, they've done it before.

3. It means enough to warrant inclusion in a hypothetical list of jobs they'd look at I would say. It's not like I said "put this at the top of the list" or anything. I simply raised it as a point of note for something that could pop up without it being too crazy.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

Not only that but Ony is stated as being the THM Fire/Blizzard/Thunder to CNJ-Geo’s Water/Wind/Earth, while also being involved in divination and illegal blood magic/sacrifice.

And in regards to other things, sure the devs could shuffle around whatever they would like, they tend to not do it to such drastic degrees though.

Yoshi P also didn’t refer to Oracle by name, someone brought it up when we was talking about the caster he had in the works and people were asking him what it was like, and they mentioned Oracle and he went “Yeah!” Which could really mean anything at this point. Since Geomancer in general has been used as a “catch all” when it comes to any form of eastern magic in this game. Most caster pvp/tome weapons for level 70 have backing in 14 lore with Geomancy. SMN/SCH books? Use Geomancy to enhance their magics. BLM staff? Used in Geomantic rituals. AST globe? Used in Geomantic divination. The list really goes on. They really were all over the place before Swallow’s Compass. Though I would love to see the actual interview not just bits and pieces scattered on a few different websites.

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Yea, there was probably a lot of discussions of eastern themed caster classes that would also meld iconic jobs from the franchise. What didn't work for one like the balancing of light and dark mana does work for another and thus RDM was born, with the added bonus of not doubling down on Eastern inspired jobs. They probably kept a lot of the lore stuff they'd worked up so they could have it to use for other jobs later down the line too.

I think if/when we get Oracle it will probably be thematically true to its roots as possible within the game. Probably something similar to Dancer since they both fill that roll of support/debuffer DPS!

I am happy that there are potential "options" when it comes to casters, but I don't think we will be getting more then one more. At least anytime in the near future.

I don't think they are going to have some Onymuji show up and go "I'm not like other girls" and just give us access to the illegal magic and have a nice little Warcraft DeathKnight sequence where everyone hates you and throws fruit at you when you enter a city. This would make the Necromancer healer loyalists way too powerful. Ony is the eastern Necro, not in practice but in it's the illegal mage of the continent.

If they were to add it, I feel that it would just end up cannibalized into whatever Geomancer ends up being, and taking the name Geomancer.

I mean, I agree we probably only have one more. That doesn’t change there are a lot of possible options that one more could be.

They could. Or again they could have some alternate Onmyouji which is less questionable. Or maybe it’ll be their answer to people wanting a “dark” spell caster.

And we could get an Onmyouji with Geomancer elements, vice verse, or something entirely different.

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Originally Posted by Daroach

Sage :

• Weapon diversity : Another staff/rod jobs ?
• Job diversity : Healer or caster DPS
• Job uniqueness : Lorewise, nothing is unique from using black magics and white magics, and the fact that it's an upgraded version of RDM in many ways make it pretty worth nothing.
• Job popularity : 2 main FF games, 3 Tactics, the jobs existence is known at least

[3/4]

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If you would describe a Sage as "an upgraded RDM" then I'm not sure you really understand what a Red Mage is. RDM isn't just "A mage that uses both black and white magic." The entire point of a Red Mage is its versatility not just in spellcasting but for combat in general. That means melee attacks with its sword as well as its spellcasting. It's supposed to be able to serve effectively (but not amazingly) as both a backline caster and a frontline fighter. I would never change a RDM into a sage and say "welp he's been upgraded." RDM to Sage is a completely different mindset and a completely different role.

With that said, I agree Sage is unlikely. It simply wouldn't have a place in the game. A spellblade melee is more likely although personally I'd rather they just expand on Red Mage's melee abilities and focus on something else for a new job instead.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

If you would describe a Sage as "an upgraded RDM" then I'm not sure you really understand what a Red Mage is. RDM isn't just "A mage that uses both black and white magic." The entire point of a Red Mage is its versatility not just in spellcasting but for combat in general. That means melee attacks with its sword as well as its spellcasting. It's supposed to be able to serve effectively (but not amazingly) as both a backline caster and a frontline fighter. I would never change a RDM into a sage and say "welp he's been upgraded." RDM to Sage is a completely different mindset and a completely different role.

With that said, I agree Sage is unlikely. It simply wouldn't have a place in the game. A spellblade melee is more likely although personally I'd rather they just expand on Red Mage's melee abilities and focus on something else for a new job instead.

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I mean, most of the time a Red Mage is subpar compared to other options. Pretty much everything winds up being an upgrade even if it’s not better in literally every area. It ultimately is a mage though, so Sage is generally the closest thing to an upgrade. Explorers and III certainly make them parallel each other a bit.

That said they could do Sage in a different manner from Red for sure. Just look at how Scholar and Red Mage differ and it’s pretty obvious you can make Sage diverse.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

If you would describe a Sage as "an upgraded RDM" then I'm not sure you really understand what a Red Mage is. RDM isn't just "A mage that uses both black and white magic." The entire point of a Red Mage is its versatility not just in spellcasting but for combat in general. That means melee attacks with its sword as well as its spellcasting. It's supposed to be able to serve effectively (but not amazingly) as both a backline caster and a frontline fighter. I would never change a RDM into a sage and say "welp he's been upgraded." RDM to Sage is a completely different mindset and a completely different role.

With that said, I agree Sage is unlikely. It simply wouldn't have a place in the game. A spellblade melee is more likely although personally I'd rather they just expand on Red Mage's melee abilities and focus on something else for a new job instead.

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Yea I really don't see sage being a thing unless they somehow make ancient magics like Flood, Burst and so on a real critical part of the kit. I could see them giving us Runefencer to fill that magical melee spot, if not then I imagine they'd probably roll that into rdm a bit more and give it some more identity as a spellblade caster.

if there is a new tank class, the best i can think is probably hammer for the weapon. either 2h hammer or hammer with giant shield.

for new healer class... maybe something like songstress? with harp as their weapon? probably no chance though since lore & look wise it will overlap with bard.

melee dps, sword whip? yoshi seems like the idea for unique weapon.

magic dps, something like talisman? you know that onmyoji stuff thingy, SB is already japan centric so onmyoji like profession is pretty much easy to put in FF14

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Originally Posted by SeikishiYuuki

Yea I really don't see sage being a thing unless they somehow make ancient magics like Flood, Burst and so on a real critical part of the kit. I could see them giving us Runefencer to fill that magical melee spot, if not then I imagine they'd probably roll that into rdm a bit more and give it some more identity as a spellblade caster.

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Runefencer is already rolled into RDM due to the fact that RDM has many of the skills Runefencer had in XI, plus an enchanted melee combo.

They could perhaps distance Runefencer from 'Mystic Knight' and have that as a different sort of magic-melee job. But it probably wouldn't wield a sword.


I seriously doubt Sage will be a job, given that it's regarded as a sort of 'ultimate' job. In the same sense as Seer is an uber-powerful WHM, Magus is for BLM, and Sage is for RDM. These roles are reserved for certain NPC characters who are deemed to be the foremost experts in their field. Matoya is a Magus, and I believe Louisoix was a Sage, while Seers are only spoken of in Bozja iirc.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Runefencer is already rolled into RDM due to the fact that RDM has many of the skills Runefencer had in XI, plus an enchanted melee combo.

They could perhaps distance Runefencer from 'Mystic Knight' and have that as a different sort of magic-melee job. But it probably wouldn't wield a sword.


I seriously doubt Sage will be a job, given that it's regarded as a sort of 'ultimate' job. In the same sense as Seer is an uber-powerful WHM, Magus is for BLM, and Sage is for RDM. These roles are reserved for certain NPC characters who are deemed to be the foremost experts in their field. Matoya is a Magus, and I believe Louisoix was a Sage, while Seers are only spoken of in Bozja iirc.

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Eh, Sage has shown up as a distinct job multiple times balanced relative to Red Mage and other existing jobs, I don't think it's ridiculously unlikely. As far as jobs that use White Magic go it's really only that and Devout/Seer/Spiritmaster left, which are at least not terribly unexpected for them to look at for a new healer. Given what they did with Scholar I would say it's relatively plausible.

Kind of a side note, I find it interesting that even though the Japanese title for Seer/Devout/Spiritmaster is the same we've gotten three different translations for the same job. We also have seen a Devout, Lamitt. Or at least that's the title she had. So if we take all of those "superior" jobs as being the same rank then Sage isn't really above the others.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Runefencer is already rolled into RDM due to the fact that RDM has many of the skills Runefencer had in XI, plus an enchanted melee combo.

They could perhaps distance Runefencer from 'Mystic Knight' and have that as a different sort of magic-melee job. But it probably wouldn't wield a sword.


I seriously doubt Sage will be a job, given that it's regarded as a sort of 'ultimate' job. In the same sense as Seer is an uber-powerful WHM, Magus is for BLM, and Sage is for RDM. These roles are reserved for certain NPC characters who are deemed to be the foremost experts in their field. Matoya is a Magus, and I believe Louisoix was a Sage, while Seers are only spoken of in Bozja iirc.

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Yea I feel like they could do a mystic knight but there's potentially other more interesting melee they could do, maybe something completely or mostly original . I agree about the "Ultimate job" thing it just feels like here's C Job+1 and that point, they again could do something more unique and interesting.

I still hope one day for a Modern Assassin job. Few RPGs have potential lore and chance to do this unless some kind of Sci-fi influence is in the RPG which we have due to Allagan Empire and Garlean Empire technology.

https://wiki.dfo.world/images/7/71/A...oncept_Art.pnghttps://wiki.dfo.world/images/a/a1/Requiem_Portrait.png

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Originally Posted by SeikishiYuuki

Yea I feel like they could do a mystic knight but there's potentially other more interesting melee they could do, maybe something completely or mostly original . I agree about the "Ultimate job" thing it just feels like here's C Job+1 and that point, they again could do something more unique and interesting.

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I mean, Scholar is basically in the same boat as Sage in that it doesn't have much distinction to its name. So if we got Sage it probably wouldn't just be White Mage+1, or Red Mage+1 if it was a Caster. Other than possibly being a slow/reactive healer or caster (Sages are known for their higher level casting which tends to be slower) I'm not sure they have much they would likely have, which means they're pretty free to do whatever. Compared to a number of other jobs which have more firm expectations that's not too tricky to manage.

Hmm I don't know how something like that would work out, Ninja having the sort of stealthy DPS, Samurai the more brutal heavy hitter and Machinist having the gun DPS niche.

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Originally Posted by SeikishiYuuki

Hmm I don't know how something like that would work out, Ninja having the sort of stealthy DPS, Samurai the more brutal heavy hitter and Machinist having the gun DPS niche.

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I mean, we are getting another Caster and Healer. So any possible solutions they come up with theoretically could be used for Sage. Which is kind of the main point. They can do anything they want with Sage pretty much in terms of DoM and it wouldn't be weird.

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Originally Posted by SeikishiYuuki

Hmm I don't know how something like that would work out, Ninja having the sort of stealthy DPS, Samurai the more brutal heavy hitter and Machinist having the gun DPS niche.

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Ninja has moved a lot to focusing on Ninjutsu, Samurai is all flashy sword heavy hits with their kenki and Iaijutsu skills, and Machinist have begun to move more towards high tech weaponry as we seen by their new skills utilizing more tech to aid with their attacks.

For a Modern Assassin type Job....

Assassination/Execution type mechanic in my opinion. Focusing on combining their shortsword weapon and gun attacks to build up Assassin Marks for their Assassination/Execution attacks. If the target is Marked by Assassination Mark or have a higher their "Assassination mark" on a enemy the more damage is done to them on their Assassination/Execution skills or they will take special condition effects from certain skills such as, for example, "Last Shot" skill being a pointblank range gun execution attack that apply Increase damage taken debuff on that target if they are Marked with atleast 1 stack. This can then be followed by another Execution attack called "death row" which has its damage based on how many Marks are on the Target.

Think of Modern Assassins as Professional hitmans/assassins/spies for hire that have progressed into more modern style of assassinations while still keeping some sword skills since close range clean assassination on a target can be more clean than a simple bullet to the head. As for lore, in my opinion, it can follow that the Assassin guild have been the guild of choice for very high pay and influencial members of society if they want to have a properly clean hit/assassination of specific targets or for stealing valuable information from certain targets. Sometimes they may be paid to be bodyguards due to the guild's professional behavior when it comes to dealing with their job so they have a strong policy of not betraying their client and never revealing any information about their previous clients. Of course this also make the Assassin Guild a target by people of power as well because they have information about their rival's actions and potential enemies locked up as Classified information due to their guild policy of never revealing client's information.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I still hope one day for a Modern Assassin job. Few RPGs have potential lore and chance to do this unless some kind of Sci-fi influence is in the RPG which we have due to Allagan Empire and Garlean Empire technology.

https://wiki.dfo.world/images/7/71/A...oncept_Art.pnghttps://wiki.dfo.world/images/a/a1/Requiem_Portrait.png

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I think they may stick with the whole "not sharing weapons" trend they have established over the years. A class coming in with both a one handed gun and a katana may not be the best for that. And not sure which FF class they could associate that with.

Yea we probably won't see this at least not in the iteration of gun and sword combo. They pretty much did away with true executes and thematically it probably is still too close to NIN and GNB. Potentially we could get something that takes over more of the assassin niche from ninja down the road, but since it already cannibalized THF its probably not likely. Who knows though it'd be funny if we got assassin and the truncation was ASS, even though it'll probably be ASN XD

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

I think they may stick with the whole "not sharing weapons" trend they have established over the years. A class coming in with both a one handed gun and a katana may not be the best for that. And not sure which FF class they could associate that with.

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Call it Assassin then give it Short sword on one hand and the gun on the other.

They already shown they will not shy away from implamenting Jobs that utilize a different type of sword and they always had talk about creating a FF14 unique job one day even back in 2.0 era.

there is also a noticable trend that Sword Jobs are released every expansion being 3.0 with DRK using greatswords, 4.0 for SAM with katana and RDM for rapier, and 5.0 with GNB for Squall's Gunblade.

If they release Mystic Knight/Spellblade/Rune Fencer, I won't be surprised if they call their sword the Runic Sword or Sabre

I think, regardless of any other factors, the big issue is an Assassin, at least with a sword, is likely going to be an up close Melee DPS. We already have four. We probably aren't seeing any other Melee DPS in this game. Other issues, like it not really being a traditional FF job and the like can really be ignored because we are more or less at capacity.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I think, regardless of any other factors, the big issue is an Assassin, at least with a sword, is likely going to be an up close Melee DPS. We already have four. We probably aren't seeing any other Melee DPS in this game. Other issues, like it not really being a traditional FF job and the like can really be ignored because we are more or less at capacity.

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double they will run out of ideas for Sword jobs because they already shown that they are not afraid to go into FF character specific with Squall's Job.

There is still...

1st Solider with Buster sword.

Noctis with Royal Arms.

Garlean Gunblade for a garlean gunblade job.

We still have Mystic Knight for probably Sabre or Rune Blade for their spellblade attacks such as Fire Blade, Blizzard Blade, Fira Blade, Holy Blade, Flare Blade, Bio Blade, and "etc" Blade skills

maybe a Tidus Job that use Curved Swords

There is really no limit to the types of Sword jobs introduced to this game simply by naming and designing the sword being used in a specific way.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

double they will run out of ideas for Sword jobs because they already shown that they are not afraid to go into FF character specific with Squall's Job.

There is still...

1st Solider with Buster sword.

Noctis with Royal Arms.

Garlean Gunblade for a garlean gunblade job.

We still have Mystic Knight for probably Sabre or Rune Blade for their spellblade attacks such as Fire Blade, Blizzard Blade, Fira Blade, Holy Blade, Flare Blade, Bio Blade, and "etc" Blade skills

maybe a Tidus Job that use Curved Swords

There is really no limit to the types of Sword jobs introduced to this game simply by naming and designing the sword being used in a specific way.

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I think he meant more, how many more melee dps are you expecting to get in this game? Just because someone used a sword in a previous FF doesn’t mean they can just add it.

They currently have 4 melee, and I would say 7.0 would give us our final melee. With the demand for Rune Fencer / Mystic Knight so high I would be shocked if they put anything else for the role really. Granted it could also go tank whenever we end up with another one.

But I’m getting off tack. We realistically have one more melee coming to the game, later on. We’re not going to have like 6 classes for each role, and anything additional we’re looking like 6+ years from now.