Highly Notorious Monsters

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Originally Posted by Strange

The open world NM's would be nice. I never really cared if a repop time was 3 days, the game should include all types of content, whether it be casual or hardcore. Eventually Eorzea will be immense and we will be engulfed with many things like expansion packs and pet type jobs. Yes the game is broken and the bugs are getting fixed. So even though we do not have any NM's to over camp/ wait for a 18hr. repop timer it will happen... well at least something similar. For the people who do not want ffxi rehashed what do you want them to do instead?

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Exactly the content SE said they're making for XIV. Challenging instances. We want to cooperate with our fellow players to take on everything SE can throw at us, without the annoyance of have to "claim" it first.

I'm in no hurry for them to add the content on NM's, it would just be nice to have it there as things to do when you are waiting for your ls to finish up what they are doing or if you login late for instances to go on/in with them, even if you are bored but don't feel like being social.Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you on having SE come into reality of there promise to the community, because that's when all the dope content can be implemented or at least given thought and put on their drawing board as an option.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

You can give me as long as you like, but there's no retraction forthcoming.

You seem to think my post implies that there are no athletes who are jerks or elitists. I suggested nothing of the sort. Indeed, even if all athletes were elitist jerks, my point would still stand. The fact that an athlete is a dickhead has nothing to do with their desire to compete.

Thanks for interjecting with a total non sequitur.

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You're welcome sir... didn't mean to derail...
I just think there is a direct correlation between competitiveness and douchebagery

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Originally Posted by Rydin

You're welcome sir... didn't mean to derail...
I just think there is a direct correlation between competitiveness and douchebagery

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That depends on how well one competes. I think what you are referring to is ego, not competitiveness. People who achieve high levels of success often develop a sizeable ego.

Ego isn't right either, I have a huge ego. It is my sense of self. I think self-centered behavior, or self-righteousness or something along those lines would fill the word void better than ego and more succinctly than douchebaggery.

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Originally Posted by fusional

that's fine. and all the hardcores will leave the game for tera or gw2 or back to WoW or whatever and the game will die. again.

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I think it is funny that you believe a very small percentage of players (self described "hardcore" players) leaving a game in response to a design focus that will drawn in a vastly larger crowd (the rest of the gaming world) would make it die.

Developing the majority of game content to the liking of the smallest percentage of players doesn't make a lick of sense today. It worked in old games because back then all MMO players were heavily invested in their games. If you played UO, if you played EQ, if you played DAoC or FFXI: you lived, ate, and breathed that game. There simply was no distinction between hardcore and casual because casual didn't exist in MMOs during these games' heyday.

Today, MMOs are no longer a niche market and they have to develop game content that has mass appeal if they hope to survive on anything more than crumbs.

Do I believe there should be content for all types? Absolutely. However, to even suggest that most content should be developed for such a small demographic of potential players at the expense of the larger group is crazy and would be bad for business.

Times have changed and at some point you have to either adapt or fade into obscurity. Hardcore gamers are an endangered species.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

That depends on how well one competes. I think what you are referring to is ego, not competitiveness. People who achieve high levels of success often develop a sizeable ego.

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"often" or "always?"
and the size of the ego is directly relative to the level of success... which is partially determined by commitment level which is reliant upon competitiveness...
ergo.... Competitiveness leads to ego...

Anyway...
Lets make it black and white

Questions:

1. Open world NMs only? Instanced and item pop NMs only? Both?

2. Timed Spawns? None (Item and instanced pops only), short (5 minutes from ToD)? long (1 hour from ToD)? super long (24-72 hour spawn)? conditional (i.e. weather conditions)? mixture of all of these?

3. Rewards? Uber open world NM rewards? decent open world NM rewards? useless trophy rewards? Based on spawn conditions?

4. Open world Spawn area? One set spot? Random over several spots? random over an entire zone? Roaming?

5. Bonus question: Should people outside the claiming party be able to attack open world NMs?

How is that for returning to OP after a derail, Cly???

(BTW... i was just being a dick about the athlete thing... these forums could use a little off topic banter sometimes)

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

Roaming Dragons.
Giant Beasts.
High Respawn Timers.
Amazing Gear.

I know everyone crys foul over copy+paste ideas from Final Fantasy XI. But lets be honest, they were the reason alot of people played. The rush of getting claim over your enemy linkshells. Watching an awesome wipe. Seeing that ever-elusive item in the loot pool. So many amazing memories of great times.

This topic is about the possible implementation of non-instanced, highly notorious monsters to roam the open plains of Final Fantasy XIV.

I would like ideas, opinions, etc; on how we can implement something of this nature that caters to all crowds. Lets hear it.















This guy has multiple reading/comprehension issues. But his posts are good if you want a laugh at work.

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HNM's need to drop only Rare/ex gear and not overly long respawn timers and I would be okay with it.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

Ego isn't right either, I have a huge ego. It is my sense of self. I think self-centered behavior, or self-righteousness or something along those lines would fill the word void better than ego and more succinctly than douchebaggery.

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Well, yes. Most of us are egotistical in some sense. I'm more referring to those who have an out of control ego and could best be described as narcissists.

We need some NMs with different pop conditions/respawns higher than 5 minutes, if only to please those who like that sort of content. It adds more variety to the game and also gives some items a value. Even 2 hours as maximum would be fine with me - I do however like that there are some NMs on a low respawn timer, as it allows people to level up and obtain gear from them to then trade in for seals.

My idea would be have NMs on low respawns be used for quests or R/Ex items, they can still be used to advance a class/quest as well as a way to obtain some seals. NMs on a longer spawn could drop rare items/materials that can be sold or used depending on the player. Make these items on par with instance raid drops or even cater the stats more towards the solo player to prevent excessive camping.

The same old crafting, and waiting to do an instance gets old fast - and sometimes its nice to sit semi afk and do some work or catch up on tv while waiting for a spawn window/killing placeholders. Having said all this I am completely against some of the ridiculous pop conditions/timers of XI and when I ask for open world NMs I'm talking about things like Spiny Spipi and Jaggedy -Eared Jack.

So...from the way I see it, this thread is divided into two groups:

Those who want HNMs and would do them if they were implemented.
Those who don't want HNMs, but regardless of if they were implemented or not, it doesn't affect them.

Hmmmm....

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Lets make it black and white

Questions:

1. Open world NMs only? Instanced and item pop NMs only? Both?

2. Timed Spawns? None (Item and instanced pops only), short (5 minutes from ToD)? long (1 hour from ToD)? super long (24-72 hour spawn)? conditional (i.e. weather conditions)? mixture of all of these?

3. Rewards? Uber open world NM rewards? decent open world NM rewards? useless trophy rewards? Based on spawn conditions?

4. Open world Spawn area? One set spot? Random over several spots? random over an entire zone? Roaming?

5. Bonus question: Should people outside the claiming party be able to attack open world NMs?

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1. both.
2. all of these... some mixed with variations to options given etc. weather+ToD+ repop timer.
3. all.
4. depending on zone/level of NM's the spawn area should be discussed.
5. Unless the add something like an Alliance (for some who don't know 3 parties of 8) then maybe.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

HNM's need to drop only Rare/ex gear and not overly long respawn timers and I would be okay with it.

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Sorry for the delayed responses, I had to sit through "The Hunger Games" which was actually decent.

On topic though, I guess if compromises needed to be made, I could give this a shot.

Rare/ex drops only would reduce the chances of a $$ monopolization, and possibly a reduced chance for botters to spam that specific target.

I personally would like to see HNM's with both Money Drops, and rare/ex drops. But if this was to be, I would love to see SE make some unique spawn conditions/areas to minimalize the opportunities for botting to even have a shot.

Also, I have heard enough quotes of "The people have spoken" regarding the lackluster appearl to some of the HNM subject. I apologize if it alarms you, but if you don't like HNMs, don't camp them. It won't hurt you to have people out camping HNM's while you do your regulary scheduled raids.

The people are speaking again.

It would effect players with less time in the sense that they would not be able to participate in it nor get anything from it. Whether the monster spawns once every 2 seconds or once every 2 days doesn't matter if they both take the same effort to kill. You're just limiting the amount of people who could participate. You can scream that it takes more skill till your face turns blue but the skill is in actually... you know? fighting the monster. It takes no skill to claim something.

/ma "Stun" <stnpc> >.> my god that was always so hard to do in xi. Took mad skills to run around tabbing for monsters while not being able to leave my computer for an hour + waiting for a pop window. :3 Skilllzzzzz

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Originally Posted by Alerith

So...from the way I see it, this thread is divided into two groups:

Those who want HNMs and would do them if they were implemented.
Those who don't want HNMs, but regardless of if they were implemented or not, it doesn't affect them.

Hmmmm....

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I don't believe it is that simple.

If you have long spawn HNMs well...they better have something good on them to warrant camping them right? Cause we all know hardcore gamers aren't in it just for the lulz, they want loot. Really good loot.

So now you have the "best" loot that people must have or be "gimp" and suddenly it is no longer not affecting people that don't want HNMs now is it?

If you only make content for people who have very little time to play, you're going to get... very little content.
Make a lot of content and let people choose what they want to do with their time.

As for claim wars dividing the player base and creating general nastiness...
You guys seem to have that covered on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

So the hardcore players will leave for a fully instanced game or WoW which is turning into Pokemon meets Farmville? Ok.

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so it's strange how WoW is turning into pokemon meets farmville yet still has far more challenging content than anything in this game, right?

i'd say you wouldn't know anything about that (as the equivalent of doing 13 dps on ifrit would never get you a raid slot in any guild doing hard mode progression) but you'd probably just make up a bunch of stories about how you were in the best guild in WoW on server X and then someone from that server can just see your comment, laugh and call you out again.

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Originally Posted by Abhayaa

If you only make content for people who have very little time to play, you're going to get... very little content.
Make a lot of content and let people choose what they want to do with their time.

As for claim wars dividing the player base and creating general nastiness...
You guys seem to have that covered on the forums.

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Just because access time to an event or mob is short doesn't mean that the mob itself wouldn't take a massive collaborated effort to kill. Time spent waiting =/= ease of beating what you were waiting for. Completely unrelated things.

All the obsurd timmers do is create a lack of access to said content to a sizeable portion of the playerbase so that a few people can get their thrills.

So you'd be picking the best of the worst games fusional? I vote find one you enjoy instead. Or enjoy this, keep being patient even though we all know its been a long time, and see what the future holds here.... you know what the future holds in other games already. Lottery vs. guaranteed crap.... I'll keep playin the lottery!

Most players who don't have the time can have more content to look forward to. Such as " Today I'm gonna play and try to kill <some name of a nm/hnm>.", or maybe the LS the the casual game is in can get a scheduled date to have the LS help him for a hour or so. Generally LS members are helpful, no matter the cost, and if you don't get to kill the NM or you do kill the NM but the item doesn't drop, so what. I can be a casual gamer at times due to IRL shenanigans and I would just try again. There will be so much content out there that it wouldn't matter if you had the time to kill a HNM that didn't re-spawn every hour at ToD. All I am trying to get across is, it's not excluding.. just more than likely giving you something to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by fusional

yet it's strange how WoW is turning into pokemon meets farmville yet still has far more challenging content than anything in this game, right?

i'd say you wouldn't know anything about that (as the equivalent of doing 13 dps on ifrit would never get you a raid slot in guild doing hard mode progression) but you'd probably just make up a bunch of stories about how you were in the best guild in WoW on server X and then someone from that server can just see your comment, laugh and call you out again.

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Nah, I never bothered with WoW.

But if you want to rehash how leet you think you were in 1.19 because you used the animation cancel glitch to up your DPS we can.

As for my time in end game linkshells on Ramuh and, briefly, Asura, all I can say is I fought against all the HNMs and experienced content like the entire CoP line pre nerf. Whether or not we remember each other is irrelevant.

-.-;;;;;

Guys, lets please try to keep this on topic of Highly (Hyper) Notorious Monsters. If there is any anger/flaming that needs to go on please keep it in messages or some other form of communication. I would like to keep this thread clean, and open for more ideas/suggestion on how HNM's could be placed into FFXIV. We have had great feedback thus far, minus a few derails. Lets keep it up :)

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Originally Posted by Alerith

So...from the way I see it, this thread is divided into two groups:

Those who want HNMs and would do them if they were implemented.
Those who don't want HNMs, but regardless of if they were implemented or not, it doesn't affect them.

Hmmmm....

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You missed the other group. Those of us who have posted in support giving HNM hunters their HNMs but wouldn't camp them if our lives depended on it. But this was probably an intentional oversight in order to flame the opposing side.

I still vote for trophy drops only. Those who want to camp can camp. Thrill of competition.... people don't want that. They want something to make them feel superior... I vote yes to camping, no to amazing items.

"People will only camp if there are good rewards to motivate them" So that boils down to, "people want better items than others have to feel superior"?.... gogo trophy drops. Trophies are almost by definition given as rewards to a select few, how is this a bad idea!?

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

I still vote for trophy drops only. Those who want to camp can camp. Thrill of competition.... people don't want that. They want something to make them feel superior... I vote yes to camping, no to amazing items.

"People will only camp if there are good rewards to motivate them" So that boils down to, "people want better items than others have to feel superior"?.... gogo trophy drops. Trophies are almost by definition given as rewards to a select few, how is this a bad idea!?

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If it would be a trophy drop maybe a materia meld option?

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Questions:

1. Open world NMs only? Instanced and item pop NMs only? Both?

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Both. I see no reason why they couldn't do both, since other games have inevitably wound up that way.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

2. Timed Spawns? None (Item and instanced pops only), short (5 minutes from ToD)? long (1 hour from ToD)? super long (24-72 hour spawn)? conditional (i.e. weather conditions)? mixture of all of these?

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I would think a variety would be best. Probably even more so if the reward was equivalent to the length of time it took to appear. There was a reason LoO had such rigorous pop conditions.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

3. Rewards? Uber open world NM rewards? decent open world NM rewards? useless trophy rewards? Based on spawn conditions?

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The more the merrier, I'm inclined to say base it on spawn conditions. But you should also base it on how difficult you made it comparative to other game content. If it takes an hour to whittle an open world NM down and 10 minutes to kill an instance boos, I think the rewards should reflect that. If the difficulty of defeating the two are equivalent, so should the quality of the reward.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

4. Open world Spawn area? One set spot? Random over several spots? random over an entire zone? Roaming?

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Again this is something that should vary. In context of the thread, I'm going to assume open world. Some could spawn in a pretty confined area, while others would have random spawn points. Same for the amount of roaming they do. It would make sense for a Wyrm to take flight and roam all over, a goblin king on the other hand may be more inclined to chill in his throne room.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

5. Bonus question: Should people outside the claiming party be able to attack open world NMs?

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Only if they add a call for help function, in which case you can receive outside help but loose the reward. I don't think that should be NM specific though, so there's that.

For the record, I was never an NM camper. I would lend a hand here or there if, for example, I was farming near SSG when Charybdis popped. But that was about the extent of my NM action.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

animation cancel glitch

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http://cs5964.userapi.com/g27002803/a_f4c104b8.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Nah, I never bothered with WoW.

But if you want to rehash how leet you think you were in 1.19 because you used the animation cancel glitch to up your DPS we can.

As for my time in end game linkshells on Ramuh and, briefly, Asura, all I can say is I fought against all the HNMs and experienced content like the entire CoP line pre nerf. Whether or not we remember each other is irrelevant.

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I have no interest in participating in a dps dick-measuring contest, but I can assure you no one in BG exploited any such glitch.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

I still vote for trophy drops only. Those who want to camp can camp. Thrill of competition.... people don't want that. They want something to make them feel superior... I vote yes to camping, no to amazing items.

"People will only camp if there are good rewards to motivate them" So that boils down to, "people want better items than others have to feel superior"?.... gogo trophy drops. Trophies are almost by definition given as rewards to a select few, how is this a bad idea!?

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Completely agree with this post. I do not mind spending long periods of time to acquire a certain quality of gear but the idea of being forced to stand around board camping for it or even interrupting what I am doing in-game to go camp a HNM in order to keep up is unappealing without a suitable alternative option as well.

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Originally Posted by Levian

Both. I see no reason why they couldn't do both, since other games have inevitably wound up that way.



I would think a variety would be best. Probably even more so if the reward was equivalent to the length of time it took to appear. There was a reason LoO had such rigorous pop conditions.



The more the merrier, I'm inclined to say base it on spawn conditions. But you should also base it on how difficult you made it comparative to other game content. If it takes an hour to whittle an open world NM down and 10 minutes to kill an instance boos, I think the rewards should reflect that. If the difficulty of defeating the two are equivalent, so should the quality of the reward.



Again this is something that should vary. In context of the thread, I'm going to assume open world. Some could spawn in a pretty confined area, while others would have random spawn points. Same for the amount of roaming they do. It would make sense for a Wyrm to take flight and roam all over, a goblin king on the other hand may be more inclined to chill in his throne room.




Only if they add a call for help function, in which case you can receive outside help but loose the reward. I don't think that should be NM specific though, so there's that.

For the record, I was never an NM camper. I would lend a hand here or there if, for example, I was farming near SSG when Charybdis popped. But that was about the extent of my NM action.

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Good points... Most people seem to feel this way... I don't know what all the arguing and disagreement is about
Its like congress... we all agree on core concepts and then we get all angry and up in arms over the details

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

http://cs5964.userapi.com/g27002803/a_f4c104b8.jpg

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It's funny because it's true.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

I have no interest in participating in a dps dick-measuring contest, but I can assure you no one in BG exploited any such glitch.

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Let's get one thing straight, I'm not accusing all of BG of glitching. Just one person before they ever were in the LS.

I have immense respect for BG. But Verily seems to want to make an ass out of me because I said once in XI's history I was in a top LS.

yeah its health care for NM's

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

But if you want to rehash how leet you think you were in 1.19 because you used the animation cancel glitch to up your DPS we can.

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so, let me get this straight. you honestly believe that as of patch 1.19, 30+ dps was impossible on ifrit without using some kind of exploit. and i wasn't even topping 30 dps at the time.

this is... incredible. i feel deeply sorry for you.

My answer for all of those questions is pretty much "all of the above".
Let's get as much variety to suit as many people as possible.

We can't afford "my way or no way" in the relaunch.

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Originally Posted by Dubberrucky

Completely agree with this post. I do not mind spending long periods of time to acquire a certain quality of gear but the idea of being forced to stand around board camping for it or even interrupting what I am doing in-game to go camp a HNM in order to keep up is unappealing without a suitable alternative option as well.

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I think HNM's should drop upper echelon gear. Maybe not the most "Elite" of pieces, but stuff that would desirably sought after. Great gear, I guess.

But you are right, I don't want to "camp". I would like spawn timers to be around 6 hours, but with 1 (one) 15 minute window? Maybe less. So no more 7 windows, just 1 shot to pop. This way people don't waste time.

X-HNM is due to pop in 30 mins. People gather, windows comes.. LS claims. That's that. Back to whatever you were doing.

I'm actually in XI right now talking to old friends. People I have played with for 8 + years. One of which has had several endgame linkshells over the years. I've been to dynamis, limbus, salvage, nyzul, einherjar, assaults, sky with this guy before. I asked him for his honest opinion on the subject of 24 hour nms and if he enjoyed farming them. His exact answer was, and I'm directly quoting him. "Fuck that noise."

Several of my friends who have been around for longer than I have, and who still play had similar responses. 586 days of playtime for xi here, and none of that is afk bazaaring on my main. I don't know where you guys get your figures at that you are the majority but I call bull and I can play that game too.

95.8% of all statistics quoted on the internet are pulled straight out of people's rear ends. True story, the majority of the players here agree with me on that.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

It's funny because it's true.

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You can watch our speed run video if you like. It's really not a worthwhile argument to have, but I know my dps wasn't aided by any exploits. I'd rather not have anyone's skill misrepresented as the outcome of a glitch.

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Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon

I'm actually in XI right now talking to old friends. People I have played with for 8 + years. One of which has had several endgame linkshells over the years. I've been to dynamis, limbus, salvage, nyzul, einherjar, assaults, sky with this guy before. I asked him for his honest opinion on the subject of 24 hour nms and if he enjoyed farming them. His exact answer was, and I'm directly quoting him. "Fuck that noise."

Several of my friends who have been around for longer than I have, and who still play had similar responses. 586 days of playtime for xi here, and none of that is afk bazaaring on my main. I don't know where you guys get your figures at that you are the majority but I call bull and I can play that game too.

95.8% of all statistics quoted on the internet are pulled straight out of people's rear ends. True story, the majority of the players here agree with me on that.

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You'll forgive me if I find your sample of 1 unpersuasive.

I have no idea why this discussion has to be in any way confrontational. It's all about personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

It's funny because it's true.

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It's only not an exploit if you wait 5 seconds after every action to make sure the animation is finished playing.

I don't think any of us here are promoting the same 24 hour spawn system as XI. It's not surprising that XI players don't want that. The 3 hour window kind of sucked, hands down.