Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

It really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRZ_4H0OK60

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"the mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in future update"
<looks at new races>
<looks at healers>
me:
XDDDD

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Originally Posted by Dragonkat

To offer feedback as to why?

You took a fun kit where resource management was meaningful and required an actual degree of skill and turned into a hot mess of 123's atop a couple GCD's that is part warrior wannabe, part dumbed down to heck and back, and all unfun.

the new TBN? You crated a skill that actively works against itself and the kit. Trash mobs under 3 can't dent it, in boss fights i've seen only tankbusters come close, not even roomwides will. But if you try to get enough mobs to do so you've now got nothing to fall back on because of that insanely idiotic nerf to abyssal drain. Which has become a joke power every 60 seconds for a meaningless amount of heal in any ST situation, looking at you bosses. And against a large pull you no longer have it's spam with quietus and a real resource break for TBN into blood (read your own lore btw!)

Delirium is a clunk mechanic thats oh look, i get a lil extra dps, and 200 mp per blood spiller is utterly insulting. The only thing worse was reducing quietus to single target regen status, and making us need to burn a GCD to get that equally joke 600 back. When compared to the cost of TBN and the maintenance buffs, oh i mean flood and edge.

It won't keep you or TBN up, unless you burn blood weapon at the same time which takes care of your sustain for the next 60 seconds.

So you need more mobs, but with the inability to spam abysal or TBN any more due to the break giving DA instead of blood atop the quietus nerf, you can't actually survive against the amount of damage needed to use it for it's main designed intent. Even if you do break it it's a 0 gain situation. You get a free hit, but if you're healer has half a brain you may as well just spam flood and edge anyway, because they'll be keeping you up.

Even if it does break the increase is may as well not be there. 1000 extra on my highest 600 potency attack? Really? Really? So again what's the point of new darkside if new darkside has no meaningful impact? and at least ninjas don't need to burn 1/3 of their resource bar every 30 seconds for an armor crush. and ninjas at least have more than one combo still!

As for flood and edge? utterly unimpressive in terms of visuals. You still have the dark passenger animation and scourge laying around. How bout them instead of imma poke you with this speck of dark around my sword? It feels like again i'm working against my kit instead of any kind of flow. They aren't attacks, they're a button i push every 30 seconds and praying i have enough MP scraped up from my 123 pokes.

Carve and spit gets a dishonorable mention here as well, at least before it's do i want MP or do i want damage? Now i get the worst of both worlds on a 60 sec cooldown that gets me 600 mp, and only 50 more potency than a souleater? Yay?

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This community will literally whine about everything. If you don't enjoy it then change jobs. No need to come on here and cry about it.

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Originally Posted by AbelArchaniEA

This community will literally whine about everything. If you don't enjoy it then change jobs. No need to come on here and cry about it.

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“This thing you like is different to the point you don’t like it anymore, but just find a new thing to like, stop complaining”.

I will say one reason I do like FF14 is the fact I’m not messed over to the point of having to roll a new character each time a job hanged but at the same time it’s pretty dismissive to use that as a “You shouldn’t complain” excuse.

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Originally Posted by AbelArchaniEA

This community will literally whine about everything. If you don't enjoy it then change jobs. No need to come on here and cry about it.

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That's what the quitter would say. You liked something beefore, than monkeys came and ruined it, you should just give up and go to another place. WRONG. If something was good and someone spoiled it - get it back.

Most of the people who are complaining aren't even DRK mains. They are people who have switched over to GNB. It's not really surprising, given that aesthetically, if you like oversized swords, you're going to probably like gunblades as well (given that they both became a FF staple around the PS1 era). But that doesn't mean that they should play the same.

A lot of the complaints are not unique to this expansion. The "1-2-3" claim applies to Heavensward and Stormblood as well. This is not a rotational job. You can't blindly follow a list of button presses to do well. Never could, never should. If you wanted to play DRK as a rotational job, well: You can't take back what was never yours to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Most of the people who are complaining aren't even DRK mains. They are people who have switched over to GNB. It's not really surprising, given that aesthetically, if you like oversized swords, you're going to probably like gunblades as well (given that they both became a FF staple around the PS1 era). But that doesn't mean that they should play the same.

A lot of the complaints are not unique to this expansion. The "1-2-3" claim applies to Heavensward and Stormblood as well. This is not a rotational job. You can't blindly follow a list of button presses to do well. Never could, never should. If you wanted to play DRK as a rotational job, well: You can't take back what was never yours to begin with.

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I agree with you about this a lot of people complaining dont even play DRK now because new shiney. I love how DRK is now. Us it HW and SB DRK? By no means is it the mundain boring ass 1 threat rotation then DA spam it once was nope but thats good i like how it is now.

At first i hated how they gutted so many skills but now I love how it plays. And TBN is an absolute monster of a tool in DRKs arsenal the people complaining about TBN being bad use it wrong or only look at trash pulls. When most if not all tank cds are all garbage even in trash pulls. A good DRK knows how to spread out its CD's in tandum with TBN making it still the single best tool for mitigation.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

I agree with you about this a lot of people complaining dont even play DRK now because new shiney. I love how DRK is now. Us it HW and SB DRK? By no means is it the mundain boring ass 1 threat rotation then DA spam it once was nope but thats good i like how it is now.

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Yes it's just spam Soul Eater combo now. Occasionally press button to keep DS up, press it again so you don't cap on MP. Only thing keeping DRK relevant is TBN. Everything else about it is underwhelming. You also lost half your kit and gave it to other tank classes. Burst when available and don't cap on Blood. If people like boring then that's on them.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Yes it's just spam Soul Eater combo now. Occasionally press button to keep DS up, press it again so you don't cap on MP. Only thing keeping DRK relevant is TBN. Everything else about it is underwhelming. You also lost half your kit and gave it to other tank classes. Burst when available and don't cap on Blood. If people like boring then that's on them.

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All.of the tanks are 1 combo now Pld omg change 1 move to goring. Burst when Requescat is up war same thing gnb same.

Even before the gutting of every tank class is was spam 1 combo if you think it was more then just that you're wrong. Drk had to manage mp the exact same way in SB except it was worse then stop down playing it. All tbn gave you was 50 blood every 60 seconds big deal now tbn gives you more every 15 seconds if you break it.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

All.of the tanks are 1 combo now Pld omg change 1 move to goring. Burst when Requescat is up war same thing gnb same.

Even before the gutting of every tank class is was spam 1 combo if you think it was more then just that you're wrong. Drk had to manage mp the exact same way in SB except it was worse then stop down playing it. All tbn gave you was 50 blood every 60 seconds big deal now tbn gives you more every 15 seconds if you break it.

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PLD have 3 combos in a rotation of 3, goring blade > royal autority > triple atonement combo and repeat.

WAR have 2 combos, strom eye each 30s > storm path

GNB have 2 combos, gnasing fang combo each 30s > solid barrel combo

DRK souleater combo

you: every one are a 1 combo now

just becasue on certain jobs aka GNB and WAR use one combo more that other doesn't make them a 1 combo job.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

All.of the tanks are 1 combo now Pld omg change 1 move to goring. Burst when Requescat is up war same thing gnb same.

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There's literally no definition of "combo" that you can use to claim GNB only has one, given that the job's core gimmick is its extremely powerful second combo.

Dumb observation; why does DRK need a "Go ham" button in Delirium?

Now this isn't to dump on DRK, at least not alone. Why does PLD and I'll even throw WAR in there as well have it? We all lost the 20% damage loss right so why keep the "Oh now to output as much damage as possible to overcome the damage loss of tank stance" buttons on them? Along with giving it to DRK?

Heck even GNB kinda has one though it's only a 10% increase rather than "Oh time to to spam" button. It just seems like an odd choice to me.

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Originally Posted by shao32

PLD have 3 combos in a rotation of 3, goring blade > royal autority > triple atonement combo and repeat.

WAR have 2 combos, strom eye each 30s > storm path

GNB have 2 combos, gnasing fang combo each 30s > solid barrel combo

DRK souleater combo

you: every one are a 1 combo now

just becasue on certain jobs aka GNB and WAR use one combo more that other doesn't make them a 1 combo job.

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Omg because gnashing is so hard to swap too.... and yeah it is still 1 combo just because you swap to 1 combo once every 60 seconds doesnt make it omg these jobs have so much more to do then DRK all the tanks are the same burst phase gnashing combo, solid break. Pld requescat holy circle/spirit spam. War IR fell spam. Dont act as if just because they have to use one more skill at the end of the same starting combo that its 2 combos its not.

Only gnb had a second true combo that is still on a timer.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

Omg because gnashing is so hard to swap too.... and yeah it is still 1 combo just because you swap to 1 combo once every 60 seconds doesnt make it omg these jobs have so much more to do then DRK all the tanks are the same burst phase gnashing combo, solid break. Pld requescat holy circle/spirit spam. War IR fell spam. Dont act as if just because they have to use one more skill at the end of the same starting combo that its 2 combos its not.

Only gnb had a second true combo that is still on a timer.

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i didn't say its hard don't exagerate and put words in my mouth, like it or not eye and path are diferent combos, equal to royal authority and goring blade, they have a 33,3% of diference and each combo fullfill a diferent purpose on the overall performance of the job so by that you have to manage them in some degree since you have to past by the first 2 skills to reach the last one.

btw i will repeat my self since you didn't read properly the post, goring blade, strom eye need to be reaply each 30s to keep the uptime of the buffs and gnasing fang should be used each 30s bcs the timer not 60s, so in resume is yes all tanks except DRK have more to do with they GCD harder or not.

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Originally Posted by shao32

i didn't say its hard don't exagerate and put words in my mouth, like it or not eye and path are diferent combos, equal to royal authority and goring blade, they have a 33,3% of diference and each combo fullfill a diferent purpose on the overall performance of the job so by that you have to manage them in some degree since you have to past by the first 2 skills to reach the last one.

btw i will repeat my self since you didn't read properly the post, goring blade, strom eye need to be reaply each 30s to keep the uptime of the buffs and gnasing fang should be used each 30s bcs the timer not 60s, so in resume is yes all tanks except DRK have more to do with they GCD harder or not.

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And again i will repeat myself just because every 30 seconds you have to use 1 different does not make the combo any different then 123 now its 124 same play style. Want to play a job that actually has seperate combos? Play a melee dps because its 2 seperate combos in their rotations.

I play all the tanks they are all brain dead easy to play. Just because every 5th combo i have to use goring and not royal doesnt make it a new combo its still 3 moves in a row.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

And again i will repeat myself just because every 30 seconds you have to use 1 different does not make the combo any different then 123 now its 124 same play style. Want to play a job that actually has seperate combos? Play a melee dps because its 2 seperate combos in their rotations.

I play all the tanks they are all brain dead easy to play. Just because every 5th combo i have to use goring and not royal doesnt make it a new combo its still 3 moves in a row.

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PLD:

-groing blade: the most powerful combo of PLD in the form of a dot in the end with a duration of 30s.
-royal authority: the most powerfull combo in rough damage, allow 3 charges of sword oath that allow you to spam 3 times atonement.
-triple atonement: extra damage extra mp

WAR:

-storm eye: adds 10% damage buff of a duration of 30s
-storm path: adds extra 10 gauge and a self heal

GNB:

-solid barrel combo: adds a cartridge and a small little heal/shield
-gnasing fang combo: just more dps each 30s

they have way diferent effects and thats why you have to respect the timings and the resource generated by those skills to gain the maximun dps posible, compared to

DRK:

-soul eater combo: grants MP, blood and a self heal.

literally all in 1 combo, no rotation to keep in mind, no dots to track on, no buffs ect ect.

for a 3º time im not talking about the damm overall difficulty of the jobs since im not talking about the full kit of each job, im pointing you that PLD, WAR and GNB have more combos even if some just only change the finisher they still diferent combos bcs you have to pass by 2 skills in a didacted order to reach the desired finisher, all that process is called combo and you have to work around that end of the story.

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Originally Posted by shao32

PLD:

-groing blade: the most powerful combo of PLD in the form of a dot in the end with a duration of 30s.
-royal authority: the most powerfull combo in rough damage, allow 3 charges of sword oath that allow you to spam 3 times atonement.
-triple atonement: extra damage extra mp

WAR:

-storm eye: adds 10% damage buff of a duration of 30s
-storm path: adds extra 10 gauge and a self heal

GNB:

-solid barrel combo: adds a cartridge and a small little heal/shield
-gnasing fang combo: just more dps each 30s

they have way diferent effects and thats why you have to respect the timings and the resource generated by those skills to gain the maximun dps posible, compared to

DRK:

-soul eater combo: grants MP, blood and a self heal.

literally all in 1 combo, no rotation to keep in mind, no dots to track on, no buffs ect ect.

for a 3º time im not talking about the damm overall difficulty of the jobs since im not talking about the full kit of each job, im pointing you that PLD, WAR and GNB have more combos even if some just only change the finisher they still diferent combos bcs you have to pass by 2 skills in a didacted order to reach the desired finisher, all that process is called combo and you have to work around that end of the story.

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Yep lets just compleatly leave out 50% of drks kit then no livig shadow no blood spiller no edge of shadow/darkness no having to keep track of darkside yep just hit souleater combo boy oh boy thats all drk is.

None of the tanks are more complex then the other get over it.

You also left out the fact drk has to maintain mp for edge. They all have to manage a resource.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

Yep lets just compleatly leave out 50% of drks kit then no livig shadow no blood spiller no edge of shadow/darkness no having to keep track of darkside yep just hit souleater combo boy oh boy thats all drk is.

None of the tanks are more complex then the other get over it.

You also left out the fact drk has to maintain mp for edge. They all have to manage a resource.

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you know? forgeth about it, seems you have reading problems to understand that i was arguing about you claim that every tank is a 1 combo tank after remember you 3 times in a row it was only about that.

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Originally Posted by kazzel120

All.of the tanks are 1 combo now Pld omg change 1 move to goring. Burst when Requescat is up war same thing gnb same.

Even before the gutting of every tank class is was spam 1 combo if you think it was more then just that you're wrong. Drk had to manage mp the exact same way in SB except it was worse then stop down playing it. All tbn gave you was 50 blood every 60 seconds big deal now tbn gives you more every 15 seconds if you break it.

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have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Dumb observation; why does DRK need a "Go ham" button in Delirium?

Now this isn't to dump on DRK, at least not alone. Why does PLD and I'll even throw WAR in there as well have it? We all lost the 20% damage loss right so why keep the "Oh now to output as much damage as possible to overcome the damage loss of tank stance" buttons on them? Along with giving it to DRK?

Heck even GNB kinda has one though it's only a 10% increase rather than "Oh time to to spam" button. It just seems like an odd choice to me.

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GNB wants to emulate FF8's Renzokuken which I'm fine with. Only other I agree with is WAR since it really feels like an accurate use of Berserk and turns Warrior into the Berserker job class.

DRK and PLD want emulate the system from Bravely Default where after a while they can throw out a bunch of attacks one after another. Bane for DRK and Radiant Blast for PLD.

Personally I don't see a reason for it other then to homogenize the Tanks.

Everyone has a IR.

GNB and PLD are more frequent and have buff windows of 60 seconds each. GNB can use theirs every 30 seconds. One weaker and then a stronger one. WAR and DRK are at 90 seconds. WAR has to buff itself with a GCD combo first while DRK can just use a oGCD.

Difference between DRK and WAR is WAR can direct crit. guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by shao32

you know? forgeth about it, seems you have reading problems to understand that i was arguing about you claim that every tank is a 1 combo tank after remember you 3 times in a row it was only about that.



have a nice day.

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And i stand by that. Because even with added crap at the end its still the same combo but more added see. And fyi gnb has 1 combo with a BURST phase in gnashing fang combo aka used only every 30 seconds think of this as gnbs IR. Just because war and pld have to change one part of the combo every 2nd to 5th time still means they use the same opener every single time.

You can say all day its a new combo. But to me its the same thing on all 4 tanks just added fluff. Even post ShB the tanks used one main combo with a fluff one every 30 seconds. I dont know whats so hard to understand that nothing really changed for any of the tanks lol.

I can't believe we're actually trying to argue that Paladin's single target rotation having 7 gcd buttons in it, Gunbreaker's having 8 gcd buttons in it, and Warrior having 5 is "actually all one combo and therefore exactly identical to Dark Knight, which only has 4 gcd actions in its rotation". Like, I think new DRK is significantly more fun than it was in Stormblood, Edge of Shadow feels great to use, The new Blackest Knight counter mechanic is a lot more satisfying, but its still a fact that Dark Knight has a single, non-branching combo (which it also did for all intents and purposes in SB, given the extreme uselessness of aggro combos), and that spamming this combo when all of your skills are on cooldown is what makes Dark Knight's downtime not feel as good as it could feel, which could be fixed with either a second combo branch, or shorter cooldowns on skills like Abyssal Drain, Carve and Spit, and Salted Earth.

My personal wacky opinion is that if they want to insist Dark Knight only has one combo, they should return Scourge to the rotation, as the weird, single button dot it used to be, solely for the reason that, while this kind of dot was removed from all melee classes in Stormblood, they went back on this removal with Gunbreaker's Sonic Break, and Dark Knight's gcd repertoire being "one combo, one dot, one fell cleave equivalent" would set it apart a bit more from other tanks.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Dumb observation; why does DRK need a "Go ham" button in Delirium?

Now this isn't to dump on DRK, at least not alone. Why does PLD and I'll even throw WAR in there as well have it? We all lost the 20% damage loss right so why keep the "Oh now to output as much damage as possible to overcome the damage loss of tank stance" buttons on them? Along with giving it to DRK?

Heck even GNB kinda has one though it's only a 10% increase rather than "Oh time to to spam" button. It just seems like an odd choice to me.

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The Paladin's (Requiescat) Holy Spirit x4->Confiteor burst, Warrior's (Inner Release) Fell Cleave x5 burst, Dark Knight's (Delirium) Bloodspiller x5 burst and Gunbreaker's (No Mercy) Burst Strike -> (Bloodfest) Gnashing Fang (Continuation) combo -> Burst Strike burst are all there so that all Tanks have the tool kit they for when they want to include a solo "kill this thing within 15s" tank dps check in Extreme/Savage/Ultimate content.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Dumb observation; why does DRK need a "Go ham" button in Delirium?

Now this isn't to dump on DRK, at least not alone. Why does PLD and I'll even throw WAR in there as well have it? We all lost the 20% damage loss right so why keep the "Oh now to output as much damage as possible to overcome the damage loss of tank stance" buttons on them? Along with giving it to DRK?

Heck even GNB kinda has one though it's only a 10% increase rather than "Oh time to to spam" button. It just seems like an odd choice to me.

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You act like we ever actually bothered to use our tank stance in the first place in the past. Inexperienced tanks did, sure, but you pretty much pretended it didn't exist once you drank a tall glass of git gud. Yeah you might toggle it on to help with a particularly nasty tankbuster, but even that normally wasn't necessary with proper cooldown management. Any "oh now to output as much damage as possible to overcome the damage loss of tank stance" buttons were in actuality used as "now to output as much damage as possible" buttons instead, with tank stance only being used when deemed necessary.

In regards to GNB; it's 20%, not 10. No Mercy isn't "just" an increase, either. Everything you do with the job revolves around optimizing your No Mercy windows. The window is meant to contain the following (not listed in any particular order):
3x Burst Strike (4x when Bloodfest lines up)
Gnashing Fang/Continuation Combo
Sonic Break
2x Rough Divide
Blasting Zone
Bow Shock

EoS and FoS should not be touched the way it is now. And i wouldn't touch TBN either.

I'm glad there is no Dark Arts action anymore. Cool looking move, but weaving it in between combos was just annoying. I do that now with EoS and FoS while managing enough mp to use TBN when i need to, BUT I get damage out of EoS as opposed to a damage increase. I can enjoy a cool looking move, but using it over and over again just makes it lose it's magical feel.

My only real problem with Drk atm is Delirium. As a lot of other people feel, it's just feels like a WAR thing. And i may not have a problem with that but it doesn't even feel good to spam BS. Last expansion building up blood to use this attack felt alright. I'm dumping all this blood gain out on two really strong attacks while managing mp. Now delirium has me using this over and over while putting ogcd's (if they're up) between each one for 10 secs, every minute and 30 secs. BS doesn't feel like my ultimate attack anymore.

Also... give me Shadow Blade as an ability, i know it's a Limit Break but we don't get to use that too often plus now that Paladins got Confiteor, i'm itching to have our variant.

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Originally Posted by UmbraNightsword

My only real problem with Drk atm is Delirium. As a lot of other people feel, it's just feels like a WAR thing. And i may not have a problem with that but it doesn't even feel good to spam BS. Last expansion building up blood to use this attack felt alright. I'm dumping all this blood gain out on two really strong attacks while managing mp. Now delirium has me using this over and over while putting ogcd's (if they're up) between each one for 10 secs, every minute and 30 secs. BS doesn't feel like my ultimate attack anymore.

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I feel like I'm okay with Bloodspiller spam as a principle in that it breaks the monotony of constant Souleater combo spam, but they could've done better to make it feel at least somewhat different from Inner Release, like Delirium having only a 60s cooldown but only being long enough to land 3 Bloodspillers (so like, 6s duration), albeit this probably would require Blood Weapon to be on a different timer (40s maybe?) since having everything overlap on a 60s timer tends to make jobs way too focused on raid buff windows.

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Originally Posted by RadicalPesto

I feel like I'm okay with Bloodspiller spam as a principle in that it breaks the monotony of constant Souleater combo spam, but they could've done better to make it feel at least somewhat different from Inner Release, like Delirium having only a 60s cooldown but only being long enough to land 3 Bloodspillers (so like, 6s duration), albeit this probably would require Blood Weapon to be on a different timer (40s maybe?) since having everything overlap on a 60s timer tends to make jobs way too focused on raid buff windows.

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They just need to add onto it instead of it just being spam bloodspiller/quietus 5 times. Make it give more mana or shorten CDs so we can weave in with the spam.