Until SE makes male and female glamours equal...

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Originally Posted by Talraen

Honestly, this thread has been pretty terrible for discussion, and it's mostly that troll's fault. Perhaps I'm just being naive, but I think the problem is that reasonable people who have these opinions and could actually contribute to a discussion* are afraid to actually say anything.

*I will confess that, based on the responses in this thread, I don't think a "discussion" is what would actually occur if those people were to voice their opinions. But the truth is, no one has unfairly demonized anyone that I've seen in this thread. The one guy being demonized absolutely deserves it. So I hold out hope.

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First I would like to adress that this thread is speaking up for equality. Not only making now-female items available for male charters, but also the other way around. You want Aymeric's hairstyle or Snow's pants? You (hopefully) got it, girl!

What I also liked seeing is people explaining that this isn't about cross-dressing or trying to look 'gay', feminine or ridiculous in any way. It has to do with style, fashion of a sort. Some items we already have (Midan coat of casting/healing, the suit-like nature of the recent Scripture gear, the whole caster Hailstorm set) are in no way any better in emphasising the gender than some already locked items (like the new Y'shtola's healing coat or Aymeric's attire, for example). If the Hailstorm set passes as gender-neutral then the Aymeric's heavy armour has to pass as well. Same with certain hairstyles.

Speaking for myself I am more than happy to debate in a measured tone when the starting argument isn't presented as 'you're a bunch of sick freaks who deserve less stuff than me' or its horrible and irrelevant cousin 'people who had nothing to do with this thread in the first place are a bunch of sick freaks'. I think quite a few of the anti-unlock crew have presented very good arguments over the course of the multi-thread history of this campaign. I don't think they're right to think that their right to certain aesthetics trumps my right to get the same amount of content for the same subscription, but they have articulated them perfectly well and actually responded to feedback. Nobody is ever going to agree with the way everyone else around them dresses.

In this thread, if we set aside the opinions which amount to 'I want to control how everyone else plays the game' for now and the desperate attempts to bring RL gender/sexuality/preference shaming into a discussion about harmless pixels, probably the best argument has been that S-E as a Japanese company is quite conservative, which is a rational conclusion to draw under the circumstances. I personally disagree with it because I feel the circumstances are inconsistent, but I'd be quite happy to debate it at length because it is relevant and the inconsistency with which the matter is treated within the game is a reasonable source of confusion for both sides. It is a very relevant angle for this thread in particular, because contributors are actively trying to provide examples of how S-E spends thousands and thousands of dollars going out of their way to model skirts, crop tops, jewel-encrusted tiaras and frills for their male characters (and has been doing so since long before the ongoing debate ever reared its head) yet digs its heels in over the most bizarre things. But there's no response to the counter to this criticism that I've seen yet other than to keep patronisingly explaining that Japan dislikes crossdressing. It never progresses further. Which is a shame, because I think highlighting the inherent contradictions helps everyone, but I guess it may just be that nobody has an explanation for the way this issue has been handled. I don't think that even S-E has an explanation.

I have over 1000 posts on this forum now and the vast majority are about this one glamour problem. I'm very, very tired of making the same arguments and seeing the same strawman posts going around and around when a lot of the problems people have with the core issue are emininently down to misunderstandings: people simply don't notice that female characters consistently received bonus glamours, people don't realise how many buff Highlander men are stuffed into skirts on a regular basis whether they like them or not, people mistakenly assume this is all about ERP, people don't appreciate the amount of 'fan service' already present in the game because they're so desensitised by the prevalence of the male gaze. Once those misunderstandings are cleared up I think most people are fine with the core request and realise that nobody is forcing them to stick bunny ears on their head. But repeating the same points we've made hundreds of times before was never the purpose of this particular thread at all; it's a gallery of how great our characters look dressed up whether they're feminine, masculine, cute or handsome. If people come in and ignore what we're trying to do to shout us down, that's on them.

I do feel that the people against glamour equality are a minority. That's not the same group as people against guys in skirts for any number of RL reasons - aesthetics, religion and upbringing are all understandable positions, but irrelevant here because the number of skirts which aren't already open to both genders is vanishingly small. That ship already sailed. I think the vast majority of people either want more glamours in principle, don't care (the biggest group by far) or don't have strong opinions on missing out on glamours because they already have the South Seas Talisman and a Coeurl thong; everything else is unimportant as they're already happy. It goes both ways because once this arbitrary application of gender restrictions is dropped, it paves the way for their weak 'fix' of locking all of the NPC cosplay outfits on Mog Station to finish. Everyone benefits in the long run from S-E thinking harder before they slap the gender lock on a new item.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

As a gay man, I did not find it very homophobic at all. He immaturely asked a question that not a single person here answered. As you can plainly see, he has gotten many upvotes. This suggests to me that enough people don't view him as a troll, and where others do solely because they disagree with him. I personally think he could have sparked up a potentially good discussion if he had phrased a lot of it much much more appropriately than they did.

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For what it's worth, I tried on a previous troll intrusion by the same guy which someone less unreasonable latched onto. Before it became readily apparent that the original poster was just trying to bait and didn't care about the reasons, that is. They're just my own opinions, but I would be happy to continue discussing that angle if other people are still curious as there may well be a lot more to it.

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This isn't just female clothes on a male, this is 'lewd' clothes on a male.

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It's also just one guy's taste, and those are all male-only items which already exist in the game. He's drawn it in a very sexualised style and I understand if that makes you uncomfortable (not in a condescending way; you're perfectly entitled to those feelings as they're personal things), but the clothes themselves in-game are no more or less lewd than any other item. Maid outfits (and indeed bunny outfits) are also very fertile ground for lewd imagery, but it's down to the artist or photographer to put that spin on it and outside of S-E's direct control.

New page, new opportunities. Let's try to steer this thread in a less negative direction with more pictures of characters dressing up and having fun again.

http://i.imgur.com/90bhNLA.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lukha

You look positively dashing. The color compliments your coloring amazingly well, too! XD It's kinda cute how grumpy she looks in the Songbird outfit, though.

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Well thank you! Haha, she does look a bit grumpy, doesn't she? But I do so enjoy having a big green hulking lady running around in a frilly pink dress. It's surprisingly hard to find a color that looks good with green skin lol.

Your witchy dress is pretty neat too. I had a witch glamour on my male dusky back with Halloween. I think I may have used one of the level 59 dungeon drop skirts, or maybe just the plain long skirt like you.

Friendly reminder that this was never intended to be a debate thread anyway, but rather a fun and civil way to show how we feel about gender-locking. If you'd like to express your displeasure constructively, why not make a rival screenshot thread with your characters dressed as girly girls and manly men?

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Originally Posted by Synrin

First I would like to adress that this thread is speaking up for equality. Not only making now-female items available for male charters, but also the other way around. You want Aymeric's hairstyle or Snow's pants? You (hopefully) got it, girl!

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Yes, this is exactly what I was going for with this thread. Everyone should at the very least have the same number of options available to them, but in a perfect world I would be able to wear a Guardian Corps uniform just like Lightning and all her male coworkers, and the ladies could emulate Snow's beach bum style to their heart's content. I wouldn't mind seeing the FFXIII hairstyles unlocked, either (and a version of Snow's without the bandana would be amazing).

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Originally Posted by Serilda

[...]

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Oooh, that does look cute on you. Which hands and feet are those? I don't recognize them.
Were you actually aiming for a 'pink Sydney Losstarot' look, or was that just a happy accident?

It's gonna be another lazy night for me since I had a final today and I'm pretty beat. Here's a little something for any furries in the audience; the Moogle Attire actually has quite the figure.
http://i.imgur.com/DOObMx8.png

http://i.imgur.com/IwcV5hs.png

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Originally Posted by Lukha

Yes, this is exactly what I was going for with this thread. Everyone should at the very least have the same number of options available to them, but in a perfect world I would be able to wear a Guardian Corps uniform just like Lightning and all her male coworkers, and the ladies could emulate Snow's beach bum style to their heart's content. I wouldn't mind seeing the FFXIII hairstyles unlocked, either (and a version of Snow's without the bandana would be amazing).

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Straight to the point. Saw a couple of female Strifes just yesterday, with the soldier outfit and all. I want to cosplay in that way too! :C

Moogletastic!

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Originally Posted by Lukha

Oooh, that does look cute on you. Which hands and feet are those? I don't recognize them.
Were you actually aiming for a 'pink Sydney Losstarot' look, or was that just a happy accident?

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Complete accident (the clothes are actually dyed silver and purple too, it's just the bright light of Mist washing them out). I used the ilvl 100 BLM PVP gloves and boots this time, which are very similar to the ilvl 110 versions. Sorry for the repeated use of BLM-only items but they get some of the best glamours!

Today's picture is to highlight the Evenstar Booties (though this is actually the reworked Serpentskin version as I prefer the colour), some of the most macho footwear in the game, along with a set of male-only tights (the model is completely different for female characters). I never wear anything this shiny and skintight normally, but the pattern on them is fun and they help show off the boots. Glamour lockouts make no sense to me.

http://i.imgur.com/wrRuS11.jpg

It took me quite a while but I finally found a pretty adorable outfit for my Monk!

http://i.imgur.com/ApPTAbA.png

http://i.imgur.com/4fEwcTZ.png

http://i.imgur.com/etPzymB.png

Best (wo?)Man's outfit:
https://i.imgur.com/4DVj4as.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uZc1cLt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5EEzow0.jpg

And the accompanying Bridesmaid's dress (with bunny ears):
https://i.imgur.com/HwzA3L0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GMDRHmi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bZJnlJn.jpg

Lukh'a's been practicing his dancing a lot lately. After seeing how successful the Songbirds are, he's thinking of launching a career as a male idol.

http://i.imgur.com/PrhGgz4.png

http://i.imgur.com/Vbi06SS.png

http://i.imgur.com/2XolVVb.jpg

Been a while since I contributed :3

i'm currently working on next glam so post soon and liking all the pics people ^^

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Originally Posted by Synrin

Been a while since I contributed :3

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That's a great color on you, it goes so nicely with that shade of blonde! The High House set is one of the few areas I feel a little bad for the ladies in, since male characters got a fancy coat, and can add the plain long skirt (and could choose to dye if a different color) to get more or less the same effect as the bustle, but female characters are stuck with one piece that all dyes together D=.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

i'm currently working on next glam so post soon and liking all the pics people ^^

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Thank you for helping to keep the thread alive! I look forward to your next pictures!


Tonight's feature is the Bogatyr's longcoat from Amdapor Keep HM:

http://i.imgur.com/7VevGZI.png
http://i.imgur.com/yTyDLwY.png
This is yet another item that has a reducing effect on the shoulder and chest area. Between the flare of the skirt and the design printed on the body, it gives the illusion of an curvy figure even on the boxiest of guys, too!

I do not support this idea at all.

... It's too cute.
Gonna make me all sidetracked from taking cute screenies of you.

Stahp.

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Originally Posted by Keeroh

I do not support this idea at all.

... It's too cute.
Gonna make me all sidetracked from taking cute screenies of you.

Stahp.

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Aaaw, thanks. We love you too! We're on the same Datacenter, so I promise I'll pose for you if we ever meet in DF!

Here pics to support the request :)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...e10e8848ea.jpg

https://visualgamer.com/wp-content/u...p-VG-002-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lukha

That's a great color on you, it goes so nicely with that shade of blonde! The High House set is one of the few areas I feel a little bad for the ladies in, since male characters got a fancy coat, and can add the plain long skirt (and could choose to dye if a different color) to get more or less the same effect as the bustle, but female characters are stuck with one piece that all dyes together D=

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Thank you very much! And yes, I agree, I can imagine that the coat would look great on female characters. All the ribbons etc could make for interesting glamours given it is only the coat, without the skirt in this case. That's what it's all about! >:I

I've been leveling Thaumaturge in PotD recently, this is what I've been wearing for it (except for the other day when I forgot to change out of that idol getup and did a bunch of runs dressed like that XD)
http://i.imgur.com/rpcYaCt.png
http://i.imgur.com/yk9ofHK.png

Not as slimming as some other body pieces, but the shape almost makes it a mini-dress.

And by this point I bet everyone has figured out what my favorite color is...

I cant post any pictures untill Monday, but I just came here to say, good job and I love these screenshots.

Totally Support this, if i can finally have Thancreds new Hairstyle for my female Aura :/ ive waited so long-.-

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I cant post any pictures untill Monday, but I just came here to say, good job and I love these screenshots.

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Thank you! I can't wait to see what you come up with!

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Originally Posted by Khankra

Totally Support this, if i can finally have Thancreds new Hairstyle for my female Aura :/ ive waited so long-.-

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You absolutely should. If I get my way, you'll be able to wear his clothes, too, but hairstyles are a particularly silly thing to lock. Clothes could I guess just not come in your size, but hair is hair, there's nothing stopping you from doing your hair a certain way.


Please remember to like the first post, and if you have any friends you feel might be supportive of this topic, tell them about this thread. The more likes and the more active we stay, the more likely we are to get some attention from the devs!

Here's the Demon Healing set, which drops in World of Darkness. It's quite a lovely dress, with possibly the most fabulous hat for healers to date.

http://i.imgur.com/QS9bptH.png

http://i.imgur.com/qbp1u2I.png

http://i.imgur.com/7wetdgL.png

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Originally Posted by Mikaeru_Umbranox

http://i.imgur.com/7wetdgL.png

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You got me good, took me a while to tell who was what :D

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Originally Posted by Synrin

You got me good, took me a while to tell who was what :D

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Honestly I'm still not entirely sure what's going on in that picture. XD

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Originally Posted by Mikaeru_Umbranox

http://i.imgur.com/7wetdgL.png

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This cat man is an unknown creature. You can clearly see the Au Ra scales on his upper thigh! Impossible!

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

Honestly I'm still not entirely sure what's going on in that picture. XD

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Obviously this is what happens when a Miqo'te and an Au Ra do a fusion dance.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

Obviously this is what happens when a Miqo'te and an Au Ra do a fusion dance.

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A fusion dance? Should try that with some fine Lalafells.

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Originally Posted by Synrin

A fusion dance? Should try that with some fine Lalafells.

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Don't. A Miqo'te/Lalafell fusion would either result in the most evil creature ever to walk the realm, or actual kittens.

Elezen/Lala might be okay, but you might just cancel each other out and cease to exist.

There is a slight possibility I am too tipsy to take a quality screenshot just now, so here's some older pictures from when I tried to put together a wedding dress glamour. (A little bit inspired by Yuna's wedding gown, which I feel the Swansgrace coat has some similarities to.)

http://i.imgur.com/liwtePA.png
http://i.imgur.com/7iSxZL9.png

Showcasing this adorable pleated skirt from the Flame Elite DoW set, tonight. My only regret is that it isn't dyable.
http://i.imgur.com/cFD7m2L.png
http://i.imgur.com/Ax6pAP6.png
http://i.imgur.com/0Nvtk6K.png

I support this. I've always disliked the whole glamour restriction thing. If a guy wants to dress up like a maid then so be it cause, heck, I want to dress up like a butler! Clothing in real life doesn't have a gender restriction on it and imo it shouldn't have one in game either.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...pst2cblttv.png

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So cute!

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Originally Posted by Seryne

I support this. I've always disliked the whole glamour restriction thing. If a guy wants to dress up like a maid then so be it cause, heck, I want to dress up like a butler! Clothing in real life doesn't have a gender restriction on it and imo it shouldn't have one in game either.

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And words of wisdom, of course!

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Originally Posted by Annoynymoose

PS: This fabulous Roe came up to me once and it was glorious.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...016_190204.png

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Not sure who that is but someone should hire that dude. I would be excited every day if he/she could design the upcoming male & female gear sets in the upcoming expansion. At least that's creative given under the circumstances that male characters have limited resources.

Finally got psn support here are the pics for current hlr outfit
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...017_204619.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...017_204528.png

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Originally Posted by Seryne

I support this. I've always disliked the whole glamour restriction thing. If a guy wants to dress up like a maid then so be it cause, heck, I want to dress up like a butler! Clothing in real life doesn't have a gender restriction on it and imo it shouldn't have one in game either.

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Thank you for your support! And feel free to post some pics if you have any, everyone's welcome.

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Originally Posted by Synrin

So cute!

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Thank you! I actually really like this outfit, if I start playing monk regularly again I might actually use this one.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Finally got psn support here are the pics for current hlr outfit

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Oooh, I was rocking that top for a while, but it looks better on you, I think. It works really nicely on Au Ra proportions.

Tonight I took a stroll through the Jeweled Crozier, and stopped to browse a bit at the jeweler's alongside some lovely Ishgardian belles.
http://i.imgur.com/oeTa2oi.png
http://i.imgur.com/s3ioWwl.png

Alright, I have a serious question that has bothered me ever since I started playing this game. I mean no offense at all, it is just curiosity.
Why do so many (I'd like to say most of them) male characters in the game have lipstick? With that, I mean the lip color option that makes your character look like they are wearing lipstick or lip gloss. While browsing through this thread and looking at the screenshots I noticed how almost every one of the male characters has lipstick. Most (though not all) male NPCs don't.
I mean, ok, in a thread where you post your male character in feminine clothing I shouldn't be surprised to see lipstick on male characters. But maybe this is the best place to get answers to this! ^^

There are multiple options I could think of:
a) You find that pink or red shiny lips look good on a male character
b) You want to point out that men should be ok to wear make up too (because it is considered "normal" in this society that girls can and men can't)
c) You wanted to use every option in the character creator
d) You actually wanted to create a "very male" character but didn't know the lip color option makes your character look like wearing shiny lipstick. Have you seen your character in some cutscenes or some lighting like in Ifrit? xD You can change the lip color at the aesthetician btw.

So please don't be mean, I'm just wondering why. Option a) and b) I can understand. Somehow also c). But d)?
I mean, I saw some male characters yesterday - like every day - that looked like the player wanted to create a manly, straight character but they had lipstick. They didn't even look feminine at all with their glamours and so on.

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Originally Posted by Limonia

Alright, I have a serious question that has bothered me ever since I started playing this game. I mean no offense at all, it is just curiosity.
Why do so many (I'd like to say most of them) male characters in the game have lipstick?
....
a) You find that pink or red shiny lips look good on a male character
b) You want to point out that men should be ok to wear make up too (because it is considered "normal" in this society that girls can and men can't)
c) You wanted to use every option in the character creator
d) You actually wanted to create a "very male" character but didn't know the lip color option makes your character look like wearing shiny lipstick. Have you seen your character in some cutscenes or some lighting like in Ifrit? xD You can change the lip color at the aesthetician btw.

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I'll do my best to adress these points from my point of view:

a) Yes, they do, especially when coupled with certain glamour. It adds colour to an otherwise plain face without complexion. That's why my character wears black eyeshadow. You can't directly notice it but it changes his expression.
b) That is a cause to fight for too, but I think it is still mostly for the aesthetics of it. Nothing wrong with men wearing make-up either.
c) Well that happens too, god knows there is many colourful Au Ra out there.
d) I wouldn't call it 'very male', more like 'badass', but badasses can also wear make-up that amplify a certain point they try to get across. Blood red lips, black lips.. I don't find it too unbelievable.

Point we are trying to get across here is that it doesn't matter whether something is feminine or masculine or not at all. We should all have characters that please our eye :)

I wrote some things with quotation marks, could also have written "badass" instead of "very male", but I think most people get what I meant. I admit I'm not the best with words and I've never been. So, sorry for that!

I myself have also given my (albeit female) character dark eyeshadow for example, but that's not so that she looks like she's wearing eye makeup but because it complemented the shape of her eyes to make them look a little less droopy with the female Au Ra face 1.
But with lipstick on male characters it's not something that somehow changes the face or eye shape slighty without really noticing it. It's really noticeable because it's extremely shiny. That's why I asked specifically about male characters with lipstick. And not even because of those who want to make a point by deliberately dressing a male character in a feminine way, no. It's just that I personally, as a girl irl, find it "unbelievable" when a "badass" male character wears lipstick. I just want to know how others see that. ^^

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Point we are trying to get across here is that it doesn't matter whether something is feminine or masculine or not at all. We should all have characters that please our eye

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That's true! I just sometimes think some people don't know they don't HAVE to use the lip color option or can change it ingame without using a Fantasia. ^^'