3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

the imbalance between astrologian and other healers is ridiculous aspected benefic is a bit OP especially when you consider that a monk can completely shut down a scholar by removing their aetherflow

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Originally Posted by nickx

Personally, I'd like to see a ranked 8vs8 CTF someday.

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I would PvP of there was a CTF mode.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

Now that the Feast pre-season has kicked off, we'd like to collect as much feedback as possible.
Thank you for assistance!

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4 on 4 - Light Party Ranked should include seasonal rewards.

As for the general PvP Feast mode, I'm loving it. I wish it was easier to see players who have a high metal count, and those who have a low metal count... In 8 on 8 matched party it can be pretty crazy trying to locate the target without using the score board.

I also would love to have the ability to setup our own private matches. :)

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

Now that the Feast pre-season has kicked off, we'd like to collect as much feedback as possible

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I think for all PvP modes it would be great if damage didn't interrupt cast times, but only slowed them down or delayed them. Skills that would stun, knock down, etc. would still cancel the cast, but trying to do any casting in PvP is very difficult.

For example, if a spell takes 3 seconds to cast, hitting that person wouldn't cancel the cast ,but make it take 4 or 5 seconds, additional hits, would push it further, out to a set max.

Anyway, thanks for your time and consideration. :)

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Originally Posted by mdha02

I would PvP of there was a CTF mode.

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That would be awesome. :)

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Originally Posted by Serilda

It would actually be kinda fun to have an 'undersized party' mode for The Feast where you can join to train with friends too nervous to jump straight in with the chaos of 8v8 or the stress of rankings. Obviously no rewards would be given, but the level 50 dummies in WD Pier can only help so much. Or if it was out in the open world it would give us something productive to do while waiting for the wretched 4v4 queue to pop.

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Private matches are a must, not just for practice, but just for fun with your friends. :)

These random pugs #healersfault

Blm/smn left to free cast #healersfault

Someone dies when they have full focus, pop b4b and then proceed to run out of the healers sight #healerfaults

The dps have 0 focus and we lose due to awful dps #healersfault

Fkn beginning to hate these pugs.

Ended my night 30/40, funny thing 8 out of 10 losts I had a blm in group :(, only won 1 game with a blm on group.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

Queue times were a huge issue, I really enjoy the lower queue times now, but I suspect it will become impossibly long as interest decreases. They don't have enough incentives or a good enough system to make FFXIV PvP self sustaining, and once people start leaving it feeds itself with poor queue times causing more people to leave. Not to mention when score based matches start happening, the queue times would skyrocket.

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I realized I forgot to give context. What I mean is I'm looking at all the complaints about people getting matched with literally anyone. That certainly helps solve the queue time issue, but it's clearly not a good solution. It's like something you to do at the expense of all else. Then again, I suppose there is no other way to counter long queue times.

And when I mentioned wintrading, I meant how they're not planning to reward ranked parties. Once again, this helps to counter wintrading, but it's also clearly not a good solution because it comes at too much of an expense.

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Originally Posted by NinjaDante

the imbalance between astrologian and other healers is ridiculous aspected benefic is a bit OP especially when you consider that a monk can completely shut down a scholar by removing their aetherflow

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I don't agree with this. The biggest weakness AST have is getting CCed and Focused while my party are debuffed.


If your chasing them around and they are spamming aspected benefic on themselves and another dps is attacking their teammate it is very hard for most Astrologians to keep up heals, especially if Essential Dignity or Synastry are on cooldown.

This becomes even more of a problem for the AST if a Summoner is left to play around. If a Summoner successfully spreads dots around with bane it becomes extremely hard for an AST to keep up healing UNLESS they are not the focus or CCed. If you spread DoTs around and then focus/CC the AST they will be forced to Run around and ASP Beni, and as you burst them down (Or lock them down with sleep) the DoTs are eating away at the whole party.

This is also the main weakness of Noct Sect if your just running around spamming Noct buffed Aspect on yourself while your party are slowly dying to DoTs then its going to be extremely hard to make any kind of recovery especially since ASP Beni is so taxing on MP.

All this talk about matchmaking.

Let me just remind everyone what happened to WD when they implemented rank matching. It died.

In the perfect world we have enough of a population for match making to work and not kill queues, but be careful what you wish for. If doing this means increasing queue times from 1-3 minutes to 5-45 minutes, no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

All this talk about matchmaking.

Let me just remind everyone what happened to WD when they implemented rank matching. It died.

In the perfect world we have enough of a population for match making to work and not kill queues, but be careful what you wish for. If doing this means increasing queue times from 1-3 minutes to 5-45 minutes, no thanks.

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YEP this is correct matchmaking via PVP rank is what ultimately killed The Fold.
When The fold was first introduced there were no que restrictions via PVP Rank, but then people started to complain that they were getting matched up with people that were higher rank then them, keep in mind this was in a time when rank 0 players didn't have access to all pvp skills so they had to unlock them by ranking up.


Squarenix changed how the Duty finder handled matchmaking and it caused quetimes to become extremely long. This was because The Fold matches up via PVP Rank Total. For Example.

If you are rank 0(Bard) and you que up and the Duty finder Matches you with aRank 1(Paladin), rank 23(Scholar) and a rank 50(Monk).
The Rank total of this 74. You will end up in que until another group of around 64->84 are matched.

(This is also how win traders trade wins in The Fold(Light Party) btw they just make two teams that are around the same Total rank and then enjoy instant ques over and over and over...All they need to do is make sure they are in a Language setting that isn't used much like [D] )

If you are rank 0->10 the odds of getting into a game are very low unless more players around the same rank as you que.

I didn't know that happened, but that makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure which is the lesser of the two evils: Long, possibly infinite, queue times or mostly worthless games. Indeed, proper matchmaking could likely end up meaning very extreme queue times in this game, if you even get into matches at all. I guess playing worthless matches is better than not playing at all, but I'm not sure.

I think it's still way too early to determine that. 2 weeks should be enough time to see if lack of serious matchmaking makes for a better experience.

I would love to see Tank Actions Matter in PvP... For example, Provoke.

It would be cool if:

1. It would change the target of the player (who is provoked) to now be on the tank.
2. It Increased the Defense of all other players, while lowering the def of the tank (for the player who was provoked) - giving more incentive for the player who was provoked to focus on the tank. This would be something like 10s) So the tank would take more damage, etc, but other players would take less damage. The defensive buff would only apply against the player who was provoked, other players wouldn't have this impact.

Thanks for your time and consideration. :)

Can we increase the Wolf mark cap from 20k? :)

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

[*]4 on 4 - Solo

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regarding 4 on 4 - Solo

I'm actually really happy with the 4v4 solo mode. I've been playing den since close to the start and I've watched as dozens if not hundreds of players join the den, get steamrolled by premades, and then quit.
Premades basically killed Wolve's Den back in the day, then the match rankings put the final nail in the coffin... To see both of these problems addressed is very encouraging.
Yeah, having to deal with random teammates is very, very frustrating at times, but we are all in the same boat and I feel the truly good players can still come out on top as the feast really puts far more control in a good players hands than WD did.

Regarding gameplay, the sprint change was needed as maintaining your TP and thus sprint time through items/skills was too convoluted for new players. This streamlines it and allows newer players to not be such a burden by lacking the understanding of this once key aspect of gameplay.

However, I feel the sprint nerf in regards to the time was a little too harsh. Mobility has always been a problem in FF 14's pvp, but sprint alleviated it to a large degree. Meeles really need sprint up during their burst to secure hits or else you can be easily kited, and we also need it for general mobility purposes. As it stands we get 10 seconds of sprint, that's basically 4 GCD's. We need to use this both to get in range and to secure hits. 10 seconds I feel is just cutting it too fine for everything we need it for. Under perfect conditions for a burst, 10 seconds will suffice, but that rarely happens. I think the time should be slightly increased to give us more leeway in what we are able to do during sprint. 13 or 14 seconds should do, maybe even at the expense of a longer cooldown.

This would be less of a problem if a large portion of gap closers didn't punish you for using them in high level play. Shoulder tackle, Spineshatter Dive and Overwhelm (when spec'd) begin the diminishing returns on stun, which you really never want to do unless absolutely necessary.

So, in the past, sprint was needed as a gap closer and a means to keep on top of your opponent during burst, yet now we need to do those exact things in half the time? I feel this leads to stagnation and slowed down gameplay, which is something that should be addressed.

Perhaps slightly increasing sprint time 13/14 seconds (maybe with a longer cooldown), or allow us to spec into skills like with ninja's Overwhelm. Being able to have the option to choose whether or not we want the stun on shoulder tackle/spineshatter as we can with overwhelm would be a godsend.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

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Swtor had a really cool system in place for tanks in pvp. Taunts decreased the damage dealt by the target taunted for all players except for the tank taunting. It showed on the scoreboard how much damage the tanks prevented. You also had a '' guard '' ability which transferred 50% of dmg taken to the tank.
Playing a tank in Swtor was actually a ton of fun. And it really mattered. A good tank leaping around interrupting, harassing and guarding his/her team m8s could easily win you the match. A dps specced '' tank class '' could still do it, but not as well as a tank specced one.

I know everyone seems to think Astros are op right now but every plat team I played in team ranked yesterday all ran a whm yet I still see a lot of hate towards whm for no reason. It really seems to me that smn and ast are pretty in-line and that only the lowest skilled players still think they are op. I think the most op class right now is pld though. They just bring way too much to the table compared to war or drk.

WHM is the baseline atm. AST performs a good bit over it, and SCH performs a lot under it.

I think SCH and BLM are the two worst classes in Feast right now, and they both have the same problem - a high reliance on finishing casts and no real backup plan.

The Feast does feel as if one can simply ignore mechanics. So far the queues have been longer than the actual game. I am writing this from the perspective of a 100% win rate. Overall, fights are far too quick and this has to be addressed. I would like to see:

1. There should be more than one round per game. It should be best of three given how long the queue can be.


2. It should not be safe for the opposing party to go into the other teams safe zone. I am not saying it should not be possible, but it should be high risk high reward. Place a medal coffer far in, but also place some kind of activatable hazard the defending team can turn on and unleash on you.


3. The middle part of the battlefield where the parties rush to meet should not be static. It should be a live platform. Perhaps with
a) walls that move
b) walls that appear in different patterns
c) hazards (eruptions, ice slides, titan bombs, instant KO falls, etc)


4. Players should have the option to pass their medals to a teammate, with a relevant cooldown.


5. There should be various tactical play modes automatically activated by the server per round, eg.

a) Basic 4 v 4 or Basic 8 v 8 as currently implemented

b) Alternatively, a mode which locks half of each team in the safe zone, and basically encourages half the team to work on Defence while the other team go out to slaughter.
So:
- half the team battle the other side's half team
- the reserves stay to battle crates or something for a party bonus, say team wide heals, team wide stoneskin, or even summon a primal.

c) A play on the above, an Endurance mode, 1 on 1 battles until one side's team has been culled.

d) Yet another play on the above, but a Tag Team mode. If a player runs back to their safe zone a reserve can run out into the battlefield. The player who has returned to the safe zone will have his HP frozen and become unhealable until he returns to the battlefield. This will play a lot like Street Fighter Vs games.

e) Stamina Gauge and Weapon Prowess Mode, aka: Calm Things Down Mode. Make battles more realistic, by bringing weapon handling into full effect and tie actions into a stamina gauge reminiscent of FF14 Version 1.
- A tank should be able to Perfect Defend so long as his stamina gauge has enough juice.
- A dragoon should have a 100% effective parry, but it drains blocks of his stamina gauge.
- A monk is going to have Perfect Counter so your not going to want to gang up on him/her.
- And for mages it would work similar, the higher your stamina gauge the more instant your skills are, before being reduced to FF11 style casting times!

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Originally Posted by Marxam

actually the debuff is quite strong. I held 9 in one match as a tank, a drg dragon dived towards me and it took about 1/3 of my hp and for a tank that's a lot from one move but the healer was still able to keep me up in tandem with me using defensive cooldowns properly because the other dps was trying to kill the healer to prevent me from being healed. I think the biggest issue is that regardless of whether or not healers have medals they ALWAYS provide the greatest threat by keeping their party alive and that is always an issue.

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Was this a casual Match or Ranked match? Because I'm finding that there is a HUGE difference between how they play out.

In 8 v 8, it's not at all uncommon for a Tank to soak up +9 stacks, because the game mode can last that long. I've done it myself, and I totally agree with you that the spike I saw in my damage intake was pretty substantial. I spent the rest of the match running away from enemy Dps just to hold onto my medals. It was actually kind of a refreshing change from the usual way matches play out. I cannot say the same in 4v4, though.

In the ranked matches I've played so far (in which I'm almost exclusively playing as Tank), I'm lucky to pick up 4 medal drops before the match abruptly ends. By the time I start actually noticing the spike in dmg from the vulnerability increase, the match is over. So, in the Ranked matches, the Heavy Medal Debuff hasn't been all that significant, and Dps still opt to take the ranged players over fighting a tank (except for in one, memorable, case in which the teams seemed fixated on picking on the ninja for some reason). Honestly, in most of the matches I've played the enemy team has been actively trying to avoid fighting me and makes a straight sprint for the ranged player on my team. Healers and ranged are still priority targets, regardless of how many medals I'm holding.

Personally, I agree with Myon in that this needs to be adjusted for balancing. There are two ways that I can see them tackling this: The first is to adjust the scaling of the Heavy Medal debuff depending on game mode. The vulnerability should scale higher in solo ranked and lower in casual 8 v 8. The second option would be to simply extend the length of the solo ranked matches by increasing the point cap.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

All this talk about matchmaking.

Let me just remind everyone what happened to WD when they implemented rank matching. It died.

In the perfect world we have enough of a population for match making to work and not kill queues, but be careful what you wish for. If doing this means increasing queue times from 1-3 minutes to 5-45 minutes, no thanks.

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A lot more than that contributed to the "death" of Wolves den, quite a bit of it stemming from changes made due to player feedback. I agree, though, that this was a big one. Nobody wants to wait 15+ minutes to get into the den, another 2 for the match to start and then have the match end in under a minute because the healer died early.

The call for matchmaking comes from the frustration due to losing. So lets look at this from a different perspective, how can we make the current system work so that people are okay with losing? Obviously no one is going to be happy with a loss and people just love to blame others for it, but what if theres noticeable rewards for overcoming these differences in rank?

If you have a team of 4 bronze players and defeat a team that has 2 silver & 2 gold opponents, you should receive a good amount of bonus points for that victory. Enough points so that if in your next match when you go up against 4 diamond players, your loss of points due to your annihilation is padded thanks to your earlier achievement.

The current system is rather punishing for a variety of reasons(random matchmaking, unbalanced risk due to promotions, etc). This kind of harsh system works for 1v1 games, not random teammates of varying levels. Using another game as an example, my first online match of Street Fighter 5 was against a super silver player on a 30 game win streak. I also watched a mid-ranked player on stream go up against Daigo Umehara(one of the best players in the world) due to some matchmaking mishap. Since its all on you, you can laugh at the absurdity of it and maybe learn a few things. But in FF14 you aren't learning anything if you get your back blown out due it being your healer's first match. You aren't really laughing if you lost your promotion due to being helpless to change the outcome of an incredibly lopsided match.

Realistically, we don't have the kind of player base to support a strong matchmaking system. People are going to bow out once they get their minion or mount. Players will stop queuing once they get bored or frustrated with the feast(especially with the current reward system). The amount of players participating will be lower in a few months.

The ultimate goal is to have a system that is rewarding & fun for everyone. You want to encourage new players to participate. You want to reward players that have been putting in time & effort. You want a game that isn't going to die solely because of its own mechanics. The difficult part comes in balancing that. Having someone get to diamond tier with a 25% win rate is silly but its also necessary for players to feel like they're getting somewhere if they're doing decently.

We could come up with some system that would make this work, but its really up to S-E to consider our feedback and hopefully make this new game mode into something that will last.

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Originally Posted by Kyani

SCH performs a lot under it.

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I was gonna bring up SCH being weak in a thread. Compared to the other 2 healers and the way Feast is currently played relying on a minute long resource just to survive burst phases is harsh especially with the ebb and flow of the fights and how respawns work. Then you have the possibility to vs a Monk, where unless im missing something there is 0 counterplay for the sch themselves apart from make sure they have 100% buff uptime which is unrealistic, instead you need to race to kill the enemy asap because if the sch loses stacks it really is rip. At 50 you could play around the arena having 0 stacks, but at 60 burst potential is just too high to not have them up. I also feel equanimity and aura blast are pretty meh skills for sch right now, im pretty sure under pressure you receive more damage than the adlo spam heals. Whilst aura blast is basically a worse fluid aura on 4 times the CD.

respawn timers need to be longer, kinda sucks to kill the healer so you can get the tank down only for the tank to just turtle and sit in the base where no matter how many times you down the healer they can last long enough to run the time out.

The mode is fun but it has a lot of flaws. most of which have already been pointed out. I would like to stress that Black mages are pretty terrible right now, pretty much just an annoyance with sleep and not able to do anything else. Bard seems kind of eh too, Scholar is completely nullified by a monk and it feels a little cheap, where as Ast can literally survive for days.

The game promotes extremely defensive play imo. Kill one person for medals , tank grabs then keep everyone alive for the rest. you don't even have to try to kill anymore after that. Kinda lame imo

Healing in the Feast is by far the most stress inducing, frustrating experience in the game. Your skills are canceled with basically anything, your always getting slept, stunned, silenced, pushed back, you have to run around everywhere constantly being chased only to take a break when you have the few skills that allow you to cast without getting auto attack canceled. So not only that but there are the constant LoS issues where it feels like your not only fighting the enemy but your own teammates as well. After all that you end up losing anyway because the enemy healer had more kills then your entire team put together.

This is not including AST, they can go die in a fire.

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Originally Posted by Thorbot

I know everyone seems to think Astros are op right now but every plat team I played in team ranked yesterday all ran a whm yet I still see a lot of hate towards whm for no reason. It really seems to me that smn and ast are pretty in-line and that only the lowest skilled players still think they are op. I think the most op class right now is pld though. They just bring way too much to the table compared to war or drk.

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Well played WHM is a beast! also they offer extra CC in from of Sleep and Bind, and in proper team setting i can completly agree that PLD might be a OP due huge utility/party support it has while setting up targets for burst due stun-locking. All those PLD skills that gets whinging in PvE really shines in PvP, afterall our base class is Gladiator so it kinda makes sense ;)

I'd also like to say that the seasonal rewards don't look worth it. As well as mirror the complaint that Premade should have rewards as well. Top 1 /10/100 per data center is terrible, should be server based or something. It's going to get to a point that to keep yourself ranked you won't be able to do PvE content or you'll fall behind, it'll be PvP and win with RNG based teams all day everyday or don't get the rewards. That's honestly not worth the stress.

As a BLM, the feast is hard to have fun in, especially in solo ques... i get we have great CC but our cast times are so long and it's so easy to get interrupted, if i get lucky maybe i can manage to CC the melee and the tank at once but usually bliz II and sleep are what they save they stun for so even if i surecast it doesn't matter....

on that note, i use surecast and the pvp surecast skill literally every time its up but the still seem to be able to interrupt me very easily, im constantly moving to avoid damage but its just relentless because black mages are so easy to kill. it feel like i hardly get to cast anything and spend all match avoiding the melee dps who only attack me until i'm dead.

to add to this, even when i have like 15 medals, im still the main target because im so squishy. with only 2 120 second defensive cooldowns (make that one if the other team's ranged is a brd or mch since one only nullifies magic damage)

Thoughts on the Feast reward structure, which hasn't gone online yet:

4v4 group ranked matches should be used as screening for tournaments, which would give the super-exclusive rewards SE has been talking about. Groups would have to register with some minimum 4v4 group rank and participate in the tournament at pre-set times to advance to the next bracket, like other PVP games with Real Rewards for Competitive PVP. If SE is intending the Feast to be a competitive PVP event that people tune in to streams to see, it would be better if the games had real stakes and teams weren't randomly matched against rofflestomp pubbies who wandered into the wrong queue.
Setting up a tournament this way also ensures that if you try to sneak in by win-trading, you'll get ruined by competent premades who actually know what they're doing, and only actual good PVP players can take home the elite prize without being stuck in "grind the feast all day, every day" solo queue hell.
(Historical note: SE has done this style of PVP tournament before, back in the FFXI era. There was a cross-server Ballista competitive event that rewarded exclusive prizes for top placed players.)

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Originally Posted by Invalid_Name

Realistically, we don't have the kind of player base to support a strong matchmaking system. People are going to bow out once they get their minion or mount. Players will stop queuing once they get bored or frustrated with the feast(especially with the current reward system). The amount of players participating will be lower in a few months.
The ultimate goal is to have a system that is rewarding & fun for everyone. You want to encourage new players to participate. You want to reward players that have been putting in time & effort. You want a game that isn't going to die solely because of its own mechanics. The difficult part comes in balancing that. Having someone get to diamond tier with a 25% win rate is silly but its also necessary for players to feel like they're getting somewhere if they're doing decently.

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I think the biggest problem is people have disillusions about how big the PvP community is and seemingly forgetting how Frontlines (to a extent) drew in a casual play base whereas Feast will probably not (or outside a month or two).

The system is almost set up to fail from the beginning.

I gotta say, for once it feels pretty satisfying to play monk in pvp (to me). I only played very limited Den, but I wasn't a big fan of monks lack of burst at 50 but their kits at 60 feels very well rounded and unlike FL where I will get nuked by a group of ranged classes the second I stray a foot from the group, I feel like I can actually put the moves to use.

For the mode itself, I don't really have any complaints that stray far from what has already been said. The ranking system may grow to annoy me, I've had a couple matches where our healer would die and "quit" out of frustration, and I have seen a few teams I've faced have someone rage quit and idle after the beginning goes badly for them. It's irritating to know that you insta lost and rank down a bit but I can't really think of any viable solutions. I guess you just have to accept what DF throws your way.

Overall, I like the mode itself, I have had fun with it so far.

Been playing PvP in MMOs/MOBAs for years, and this was one of the most infuriating experiences that I ever had. As a healer (not AST), you only have fun if your Equanimity/Surecast/Swiftcast is up, once it's on CD, your fun is over, your skill is over, your counterplay is over. It's basically just:

stun, stun, interrupt, stun, stun... holmgang, interrupt, stun, stun, stun, int...

Yes, I can survive with sprint and instant heals + kite/LoS, but this is not fun, it's fucking ridiculous. I tried to like it, bought some vit acessories, read guides, expent an hour organizing my hotbars with all PvP skills just to be extremely disappointed. Pretty sure this mode will die aswell, sadly. PvP in FF is poorly designed.

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Originally Posted by Eothas

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This mode will probably die, but I've seen plenty of healers do really well. I think the healing issue is on your end.

But as others have said, once matchmaking starts and people finish their mount grind, I don't think there will be enough players to sustain a queue. If the matchmaking is tight, it'll be like splitting the playerbase into 5 GCs. And let me remind everyone that Wolves Den was pretty much killed when they did the ranked matchmaking, which destroyed the queue times.

I think the people saying that Feast will die out in short order are massively underselling PvP's popularity.

Is it very big compared to the whole game? No. But there are still thousands of people on each Data Center who managed to play 10+ games a week of Frontline with how awful queues for it were.

Small-man pvp that doesn't take 40 minutes to fire is going to have legs for quite some time, especially with balance passes.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Well played WHM is a beast! also they offer extra CC in from of Sleep and Bind, and in proper team setting i can completly agree that PLD might be a OP due huge utility/party support it has while setting up targets for burst due stun-locking. All those PLD skills that gets whinging in PvE really shines in PvP, afterall our base class is Gladiator so it kinda makes sense ;)

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Agreed. Just tonight I ran into a Whm multiple times who literally carried their team by frequently sleeping our team. Straight heals are underwhelming, but used well, Whm monstrous to fight against. That one little lala made my life hell tonight and destroyed the winning streak I was on all by themselves.

I am, however, having a slight problem with Pld. It's not it's utility or how it plays. It plays AMAZING in Feast. The problem is the general attitude I've seen towards Pld by the vast majority of people I've played with. I get shafted with the blame for almost every match that goes south. Right off the bat you get people saying crap like, "why didn't you use Testudo?? / Where's my Cover!? / Why aren't you stun locking that Healer!? Tank's on my ass, why aren't you saving me!?" etc.

I just played a match in which the Healer was begging me to save them from the tank the entire time, but the Dps was furious that I wasn't constantly on the healer. Newsflash: I CANNOT BE IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE! For the love of god, this is not rocket science. Secondly, people really have no concept of how Pld actually works. I CANNOT INFINITELY STUN LOCK A TARGET. Yes, shield bash is a GCD attack, but after 3, that's it. I have to wait a minute at the very least to stun the target again. Yet everyone somehow expects me to stun lock forever or that I'll be able to magically interrupt every healer cast with my regular attacks. I wish I could, but it doesn't work that way.

The last thing (and I realize I'm ranting here), is that my oGCD's have a long damn timer. Cover takes 120 seconds to recast. No matter how much people bitch about it, I CANNOT COVER EVERYONE ANY TIME I WANT. Testudo is even worse at 150 seconds. Further, Cover only covers a single target. Status effects are transferred to me (including stuns). It does not protect against magic dmg, and it HAS A LIMITED RANGE. I bring that up because I had someone complain that I didn't use cover on them, when, in fact, I did but they ran WAY out of my range instead of staying close to me.

I could go on and on about the unrealistic demands that people have been begging for in these random PuG matches, because I have seen some truly asinine requests in just these first two days, but the bottom line is that, no matter how good of a Pld I or anyone else is, we cannot protect the entire team from their own ineptitude. There is a limit to our abilities and it's ridiculous to think that we can somehow carry the everyone.

Edit: Slept on it. I don't want a Dev skimming through posts to think SCH is going to be doing well enough for long. I haven't come across many MNKs that realize that One Ilm Punch is a skill they have, but anyone that's been around a while will be removing my Aetherflow stacks whenever possible.

And, uh, that's bullshit. I need those. SMN does, too. An attentive MNK can keep a SMN out of Dreadwyrm Trance for at least 60 seconds. That is an eternity in The Feast. If there's going to be any kind of exception on One Ilm Punch, it should be Aetherflow.

The steady nerfs to SCH/SMN in early Wolves' Den probably need to be re-evaluated, as well. I want Miasma I and/or II to put Heavy on my targets again. The other healers get Heavy, AND a Stun natively. SCH has no natural crowd control in its current state, and can only cross-class Blizzard II for its Bind.

Another suggestion: A convenient way to get pets back after a death. Maybe tie it to an existing PvP ability. The other healers don't have to be rooted to the ground for several seconds while they gather a crucial part of their kit. (And then promptly have another part dispelled completely when they re-enter the fray...)

Please make BLM viable in 4v4.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Februs

I am, however, having a slight problem with Pld. It's not it's utility or how it plays. It plays AMAZING in Feast. The problem is the general attitude I've seen towards Pld by the vast majority of people I've played with. I get shafted with the blame for almost every match that goes south. Right off the bat you get people saying crap like, "why didn't you use Testudo?? / Where's my Cover!? / Why aren't you stun locking that Healer!? Tank's on my ass, why aren't you saving me!?" etc.

I just played a match in which the Healer was begging me to save them from the tank the entire time, but the Dps was furious that I wasn't constantly on the healer. Newsflash: I CANNOT BE IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE! For the love of god, this is not rocket science. Secondly, people really have no concept of how Pld actually works. I CANNOT INFINITELY STUN LOCK A TARGET. Yes, shield bash is a GCD attack, but after 3, that's it. I have to wait a minute at the very least to stun the target again. Yet everyone somehow expects me to stun lock forever or that I'll be able to magically interrupt every healer cast with my regular attacks. I wish I could, but it doesn't work that way.

The last thing (and I realize I'm ranting here), is that my oGCD's have a long damn timer. Cover takes 120 seconds to recast. No matter how much people bitch about it, I CANNOT COVER EVERYONE ANY TIME I WANT. Testudo is even worse at 150 seconds. Further, Cover only covers a single target. Status effects are transferred to me (including stuns). It does not protect against magic dmg, and it HAS A LIMITED RANGE. I bring that up because I had someone complain that I didn't use cover on them, when, in fact, I did but they ran WAY out of my range instead of staying close to me.

I could go on and on about the unrealistic demands that people have been begging for in these random PuG matches, because I have seen some truly asinine requests in just these first two days, but the bottom line is that, no matter how good of a Pld I or anyone else is, we cannot protect the entire team from their own ineptitude. There is a limit to our abilities and it's ridiculous to think that we can somehow carry the everyone.

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I adore playing PLD in Frontlines, even in spite of the terrible encounters with players who are amazing in their own way, but honestly this is the exact reason I am afraid to try him in the Feast. I have no experience with WD and I'm not even used to popping very many self defensive cooldowns outside of being chased by an entire party or during Cover phases and I worry it'll take me at least a few games to get into the flow of things all while having little to no patience from any of my fellows.

Guess I'll stick to my Bard for another while longer.

I like PVP in most MMOs, and I have spent many a 'catch up' patch inside Frontlines. But Feast is killing my interest fast. It's either your team annihilates....which is boring.....or you get annihilated....which is frustrating. Frontlines is dead, Feast will more than likely soon be dead.....

Bit disappointed that they had a 'State of the game' issue and have once again failed to deliver. (PVP wise. PVE is 'decent' this patch').

Not sure how long my interest in Feast will last but I do hope that any lull currently occurring in Frontlines will pass after the initial honeymoon phase, I really did enjoy Seal Rock despite how many people liked to moan and complain that it wasn't "real" PvP.

Mnk vs sch ...please do something that match up is retarded especially in 4vs4.Mnk shut down every option you have.