Punishment for exploitation of Power Leveling

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

I feel there should be some sort of punishment for those who willing took advantage of power leveling. Either a rollback of the ill gotten experience points, or even a suspension or ban for the really big exploiters. It's unfair to those that leveled legitimately.

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GM: Ok player, DID YOU INTENTIONALLY POWER LEVEL OR WAS IT AN ACCIDENT?
Player: Errr.... hang on if I say it was an accident what can you do?
GM: Nothing, but your honesty here is expected
Player: <AFK>

- 15 minutes later -

GM: Are you there player?
Player: Sorry was AFK while my friend accidentally kills all these monsters for me
GM: Then you are free to go, sorry for bothering you

GM: You there, Cake or Death?

Hmm why would they punish people for power leveling when Yoshi himself talked about power leveling and how he's ok with it? How was the player supposed to know what they were doing was wrong regardless of how fast and how quickly you can level up?

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Originally Posted by ViolentDjango

Yep.

He also said himself that it was intended, they just didn't foresee it being so potent that you could do NOTHING and still EXP. That's the part of it they are going to fix.




The issue here is one of semantics. The original meaning of the word "exploit" was merely to make use of something advantageous, but the domestic implication of the words usage these days has immoral connotations. To exploit is to take advantage of something in a fashion that potential harms or disadvantages another involved party. You can quote the dictionary meaning of a word, but you can't discount the domestic interpretation -- there's a reason why dictionaries are updated on a regular basis.

Neither of those is the case here.

Yoshida himself expressed that the PL system was an intended looseness to allow people to help each other advance through levels. People are using the system as it was intended to be used, the development team merely did not foresee the potency of the function being so strong that people could do nothing and still plow through levels. This is a balancing issue, and people using it is no more of an exploit than using the Experience Chain system.

Yoshida's team made a mistake with regard to their calculations, and they've already expressed that they aren't going to hold their mistake against the players. The system was intended, the numbers are just higher than they wanted/expected and they've decided they will modify them.

Hence, not an exploit. It has nothing to do with whether or not you like or enjoy it -- I haven't even used the system, but its not cheating/exploiting in any way.

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It IS exploiting something the way people took advantage of it. Exploiting may be assumed to be a negative word, but it isn't always so. It's not cheating because SE allowed it.

I'm fully aware that Yoshida-san said that PLing is fine. It wouldn't make sense for them to punish players for something they said, "go ahead and take advantage of it if you want," to. That has nothing to do with the word exploit and people's assumptions about it though.

Something being allowed does not mean it can't be exploited, AKA: taken advantage of.

Honestly I dont know why you people are arguing people who did this should be punished. They admitted themselves it was their mistake. Patch should have been delayed for more testing. If they had wanted to do anything about it they would have done so. They're even waiting till 1.19a to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

I feel there should be some sort of punishment for those who willing took advantage of power leveling. Either a rollback of the ill gotten experience points, or even a suspension or ban for the really big exploiters. It's unfair to those that leveled legitimately.

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the game changed a lot in many ways the last year. Sometimes xp for crafting was amazing (too i didnt play at that time) the 500sp grind pretty much at the start was very fast too.

Then it changed to VERY slow, and ppl lvled still. Then some leves granted a huge amount of xp(sp). The game is being balanced out. Deal with it.
New players start with not dated gear, get materia from day one, can gather catalysts from day one, dont have to deal with less inventory, have much easier recipes... etc. etc... and have high lvl help.

There is no need to punish ppl and SE is aware of that issue anyways. So stop crying about that issue please!

I suggest there be punishment for exploitation of the Create Topic button.

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Originally Posted by Colino

I suggest there be punishment for exploitation of the Create Topic button.

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I'd much rather have this

Ah if people power-levels, there's something I am pretty sure about: The risk of not knowing how to play a L50 class.
The day someone tells me how to use skills being a L50 I'll just deny to explain it, since that someone should know that since when he ranked up his class =P

Also I don't like power-leveling, is boring. inb4 "But grinding is boring too", then don't grind and do leves & quests.

personally I refuse to knowingly join a PLing party. It makes no sense. I'm playing a game, I'm supposed to PLAY it. It makes no sense for someone to skip through it. There isn't even a lot of endgame content. Its about the ride and not your destination.

How about we punish everyone who beat the the darkhold with archers. This thread is lame....

I see that, after all this time away, people on these boards are still completely insane and irrational.

At least the game got better eh?

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Originally Posted by Demacia

I see that, after all this time away, people on these boards are still completely insane and irrational.

At least the game got better eh?

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Should just assume that is never going to change unfortunately. This is why we have wars.

The best part of this thread is expecting PL'ing is going to be removed entirely.

I don't see a problem. Yoshi-P said he doesn't have a problem with power leveling. Yes, it's a bit over powered at the moment, but it's gettin taken away next week. You'll still be able to PL, it just won't be that good. People will still do it, and you'll still be mad that people are doing it.

There is no "Bannable" offense here, that's just silly. They added it to the game, knowing people are going to do it this way. They're just taking it out because people have complained about it and say it's far too easy to level by doing it.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Ah if people power-levels, there's something I am pretty sure about: The risk of not knowing how to play a L50 class.
The day someone tells me how to use skills being a L50 I'll just deny to explain it, since that someone should know that since when he ranked up his class =P

Also I don't like power-leveling, is boring. inb4 "But grinding is boring too", then don't grind and do leves & quests.

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Then take your own advise. You don't like powerleveling, then don't, grind and do leaves and quests instead.

These posts are just repeating the same crap over and over again. My turn now. You are assuming everyone who is powerleveling has never leveled before, never partied before, never played an mmo before. They'll know what to do just like any other smart person will do. They will read forums, do some research and playtest to figure it out.

The people you guys are describing probably doesn't even exist. Someone who is new to mmos thats never been in a grp before, doesn't know what skills are, probably wouldn't even know what powerleveling is.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

How is being able to level from 1-50 in one day not an obvious exploit?

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You can't get 1-50 in a day of power leveling. That's a huge exaggeration.

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Originally Posted by options

Then take your own advise. You don't like powerleveling, then don't, grind and do leaves and quests instead.

These posts are just repeating the same crap over and over again. My turn now. You are assuming everyone who is powerleveling has never leveled before, never partied before, never played an mmo before. They'll know what to do just like any other smart person will do. They will read forums, do some research and playtest to figure it out.

The people you guys are describing probably doesn't even exist. Someone who is new to mmos thats never been in a grp before, doesn't know what skills are, probably wouldn't even be playing FFXIV.

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fixed that for ya.

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Originally Posted by options

Then take your own advise. You don't like powerleveling, then don't, grind and do leaves and quests instead.

These posts are just repeating the same crap over and over again. My turn now. You are assuming everyone who is powerleveling has never leveled before, never partied before, never played an mmo before. They'll know what to do just like any other smart person will do. They will read forums, do some research and playtest to figure it out.

The people you guys are describing probably doesn't even exist. Someone who is new to mmos thats never been in a grp before, doesn't know what skills are, probably wouldn't even know what powerleveling is.

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Yeah, I said that in your other dimension =)
I said it's a risk, and if that's going to happen and someone asks me on how to use skills while supposedly being fully experienced on that I'll just not help them. That's my kinda punishment.
And I say that it happened in other MMOs, so it could be likely happen in this game too, but I don't care, the Dev team is gonna solve this in 1.19a, rite?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Everyone agreeing clearly has nobody to powerlevel them

lolllololoolol

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LOL right?

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Originally Posted by FilthyDisco

You can't get 1-50 in a day of power leveling. That's a huge exaggeration.

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I said the same thing, until 2 of my friends did it. You really can.

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Originally Posted by FilthyDisco

You can't get 1-50 in a day of power leveling. That's a huge exaggeration.

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with 18 hours of straight grinding and a power level you can
someone did a test, but they also DID NOT do it on a single class
they earned 2mil exp ina single day
that exp was spread across several jobs, which is why people say you can do 1-50 in a day

its not that you actualy go from 1-50, its you gain the equivilent exp if you get power leveled for 20 hours straight

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

It IS exploiting something the way people took advantage of it. Exploiting may be assumed to be a negative word, but it isn't always so. It's not cheating because SE allowed it.

I'm fully aware that Yoshida-san said that PLing is fine. It wouldn't make sense for them to punish players for something they said, "go ahead and take advantage of it if you want," to. That has nothing to do with the word exploit and people's assumptions about it though.

Something being allowed does not mean it can't be exploited, AKA: taken advantage of.

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I surrender.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

I feel there should be some sort of punishment for those who willing took advantage of power leveling. Either a rollback of the ill gotten experience points, or even a suspension or ban for the really big exploiters. It's unfair to those that leveled legitimately.

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Why Ban people for using something SE themselves gave us? It was SE's mistake not the users. Also, how do you plan on finding out who got power leveled?

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Yeah, I said that in your other dimension =)
I said it's a risk, and if that's going to happen and someone asks me on how to use skills while supposedly being fully experienced on that I'll just not help them. That's my kinda punishment.
And I say that it happened in other MMOs, so it could be likely happen in this game too, but I don't care, the Dev team is gonna solve this in 1.19a, rite?

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Yeah they are doing something, but by how much? 1.19a will tell. Is it going to be enough to satisfy the anti-powerleveling crowd?

You gotta understand, if someone asks you how to use their skills at r50, then they are stupid. They're gonna be stupid whether or not it takes em a year to cap, 2 months to cap, or 1 day. They're gonna be stupid at lvl 1 or lvl 50.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

I feel there should be some sort of punishment for those who willing took advantage of power leveling. Either a rollback of the ill gotten experience points, or even a suspension or ban for the really big exploiters. It's unfair to those that leveled legitimately.

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There should be a Dislike Button and you should be banned for making a post like this. Why waste our time reading this. We shouldn't be punished for what the dev team implemented. This will be fixed in the next patch.

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Originally Posted by options

Yeah they are doing something, but by how much? 1.19a will tell. Is it going to be enough to satisfy the anti-powerleveling crowd?

You gotta understand, if someone asks you how to use their skills at r50, then they are stupid. They're gonna be stupid whether or not it takes em a year to cap, 2 months to cap, or 1 day. They're gonna be stupid at lvl 1 or lvl 50.

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watch them make it so that all characters in the party have to move to get xp in which case everyone would auto follow the PL. lol.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Why? What did they do to you? They didn't harm you in any way.

What are you proposing anyway? that like half the playerbase gets banned?

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Banning 6 people? Are you mad?!?!

the OP should be banned for further lowering the average IQ of the forum users.

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Originally Posted by options

Yeah they are doing something, but by how much? 1.19a will tell. Is it going to be enough to satisfy the anti-powerleveling crowd?

You gotta understand, if someone asks you how to use their skills at r50, then they are stupid. They're gonna be stupid whether or not it takes em a year to cap, 2 months to cap, or 1 day. They're gonna be stupid at lvl 1 or lvl 50.

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Yeah. But it happened, and I had to stand some people who didn't know how to use skills in other MMOs, so I suppose there's a risk in this game too if this goes up. Well, they said the PL problem was because of a non-wanted "bug" that they were gonna fix these days, but since 1.19a is happening shortly they'll take it there. Let's hope for the best =)

Returning to the topic, I don't think that who got power-leveled should be punished by the Dev team. They wanted to do it, it's their way to have fun and things. Don't blame someone because that someone likes to do things in a different way! (with harsh punishments. My punishment would still go on and I'd let that someone learn their actions by themselves)

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

with 18 hours of straight grinding and a power level you can
someone did a test, but they also DID NOT do it on a single class
they earned 2mil exp ina single day
that exp was spread across several jobs, which is why people say you can do 1-50 in a day

its not that you actualy go from 1-50, its you gain the equivilent exp if you get power leveled for 20 hours straight

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Yeah, that's completely reasonable to complain about...

You could hit level 75 in Classic (pre-Abyssea, Pre-TP burn) FFXI in less than a week playing 20 hours a day and the projected level time for an efficient player was 3-5 months to 75 at that time.

I know because I did it back before I had a life with priorities and responsibilities Shit, we're grading games on how quickly the obsessive minority does things? This game will never be slow enough, then.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

the OP should be banned for further lowering the average IQ of the forum users.

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They are killing me, man. I've regressed back to using images and youtube links to express my points. You should be able to sue people for assaulting your brain cells. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Please... SE can't even handle exploitation correctly, they completely botched Salvage dupes in XI, and besides this isn't exploitation.

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They didn't botch anything--Full linkshells vanished because they all took part in the exploit, not to mention people who "didn't know anything but went along for the ride" got banned as well, they also banned and reverted gil totals of those who took part in the Tavnazia subligar glitch back in mid 2004.

They know how to handle exploitations, they're just more busy getting this game off the ground to honestly do something about exploits and bots. By the by, exploit means more than just the typical implementation, exploiting means, given official response, being afk and leveling while being powerleveled, you're exploiting a bug that way.

Definition:

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Make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)

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If you do nothing at all and gaining levels while a higher level friend or friends are killing things, you're exploiting the bug which they basically stated it was.

Breaking the economy by pulling money out of the air with an exploit is far different than getting lower levels faster.

U cant punish them, we should blaim yoshida made it available for pl.

I dont know why ppl boher to continues on this thread, the poster only post 1 post....and he dont stat his opinion either....troll detect ?

They post and then they can't defend themselves. Sad really.

OP is mad no one would P lvl him, I dont blame anyone for not doing it, he is obviously a dbag

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

watch them make it so that all characters in the party have to move to get xp in which case everyone would auto follow the PL. lol.

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What I'm thinking they will do is make it to where a high rank in your party will lower XP gains. This way you can still PL but you will have to tag every kill first with the PL outside the party killing after you tag it.

Gate enjoyed the OP.
Gate believes that PLing was their intention, but not to the extent that it is now. They're fixing it shortly and won't be taking actions to those who participated in game mechanics.

My 1 Gil is worth more than your 1 Gil.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

They didn't botch anything--Full linkshells vanished because they all took part in the exploit, not to mention people who "didn't know anything but went along for the ride" got banned as well, they also banned and reverted gil totals of those who took part in the Tavnazia subligar glitch back in mid 2004.

They know how to handle exploitations, they're just more busy getting this game off the ground to honestly do something about exploits and bots. By the by, exploit means more than just the typical implementation, exploiting means, given official response, being afk and leveling while being powerleveled, you're exploiting a bug that way.

Definition:


If you do nothing at all and gaining levels while a higher level friend or friends are killing things, you're exploiting the bug which they basically stated it was.

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thats the core definition of the word exploit, it is used differently when it comes to games and even more with MMOs.

exploiting in MMOs can be defined as "abusing an unintended effect gaining an unfair advantage" with PL the effect was intended just not the extent that it was, this is in no way the players fault and it is in no way an unfair advantage.

This thread needs to gtfo.