I hope Yoshi-P will not listen to all those immature requests.

oh please ban Bump

First of all thank you for your reply that wasn't a flame. It's rare, and it's appreciated.

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It's a different team then FFXI and Yoshi-P looks like he really knows what he is doing. He even said that he is a PVPer at heart so PVP will be there and it will not neccessarly suck like it did in FFXI. As per Yoshi-P said, the chances of a open world PVP are very slim so you don't have to worry.

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I don't want to come across as that I'm stubbornly against PVP. My point on PVP is I want them to continue to keep PVP on the far back burner until the game has plenty of PVE content. And if the devs are bored and people still demand it, then that's fine.

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As for Jump it is far from being useless. It is true very few FF games made use of it but it has an enormous potential. As for now, Yoshi-P would like to use Jump to avoid obstacles.... Instead of going around all the time, you would be able to jump down a ledge or jump back up... jump over an obstacle. It also opens the door for some very clever level design.

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I haven't seen Yoshi P say that but I'll take your word for it.

Again, the terrain in XIV hasn't given me any stress to really want a jump for it. And if they're smoothing out the terrain to overcome small obstacles, then it's not really necessary for this point in XIV. The only jump I can see myself agreeing to, is more like the climb of Monster Hunter to get on top of or over things. A standard jump, while probably easier to put in the game, is quickly going to be annoying in the hands of childish players I think.

You do make an interesting view on "clever level design", but from all the memories in my head about jumping because of level design in FF games before, this was a very limited action and is not the kind of jump that most people are talking about.

I'd have an open mind about the greater, more creative potential of jumping and PVP in FF, if only I had the confidence in SE to do it right, but I don't. :(



I saw some concerns that people had about jump and battle mechanics, but i can tell you all that jumping will not affect battle at all... i really don't see how it would or i don't recall any MMO who implemented it into battle. As for Dragoons will probably not use the regular jump but rather an ability/spell that will make them jump much higher..[/QUOTE]

Actually what Yoshi-P said was he wants jump to be more like an emote. With the possibility of jumping over small obstacles (but this is not the main focus). He wants to use jump for things like alerting party members to a monster or similar emote type functions. Obstacle jumping is not the main focus.

what you just described sounds pointless... why go through all the effort of implementing a jump feature if you aren't even going to utilize it to overcome terrain? I'm not attacking your post personally, but just what Yoshi-P said.

We kind of already have an alert system, too... we have symbols(target icons), and I'm sure people are capable of making macros for alerts.

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Originally Posted by Jibe

Actually what Yoshi-P said was he wants jump to be more like an emote. With the possibility of jumping over small obstacles (but this is not the main focus). He wants to use jump for things like alerting party members to a monster or similar emote type functions. Obstacle jumping is not the main focus.

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yeah i read that... but i still dont get the "alerting party members with jump?" What did he mean by that? how can you alert party members with Jump or how is it even useful?

I rather not have jump at all if i have to type /jump everytime i want to see a jump emote... like seriously?

Been to this disuccsion when this game was in beta. Now the lead developer has nailed and I am surprised this still needs to be talked about.

1. Open world pvp (or "PK") isn't going to happen, so there's not a need to morally (<- lol) oppose it anymore.
2. Consensual PvP is consensual; if you don't like it, don't pvp.
3. Being MMO is about to offer many degrees of freedom, people are free to enjoy their play style as long it's within ethical norms.

The case is closed, or is it not?

I would love to see something like an arena, however one other style ive seen I really liked was Perfect worlds. A simple target action that allowed to to send pvp offer anywhere, if they were in targeting distance, even in cities; making it so you didnt "die" at the end, but got a "you win!/You lose!" message at the end.

I think this would allow people to have fun, challenge people without the drama sometimes involved with PvP -and- allow people who roleplay a more realistic opportunity to be at odds with eachother.

Well, perfect world's would be fine... but I'm sure people would be upset to get bombarded by PvP invitations. As long as there's an option to automatically reject them (or only accept challenges from friends), I think it's a good solution.

This is not one of the better opening posts I've seen so far. It's hard to respect and consider ideas and views when they aren't well thought out and formatted. To call someone else's ideas immature just because you don't agree isn't very professional.

I think PVP could be really fun in the game if done right. One of my favorite forms of pvp to this day has been the Conquest system in FFXI. It didn't actually require players to openly participate, but It inspired a little bit of pride in your home Nation, and spurred on a bit of competitive rivalry. It also added a level of depth to the game that really placed me in the world. I don't want to see open world PvP and Ganking, but some sort of passive system like that could really do wonders to help the game on a few different fronts, adding both PvE and PvP objectives.

I am firmly against jumping simply because I don't think it will fit into a world like FFXIV's. For Warhammer Online, jumping was a part of the game, and you actually had to deal with a bit of platforming to reach that dungeon up on the cliff. I just don't feel like FFXIV can comfortably incorporate that level of platforming without a big boost to control responsiveness and general character agility. On the other hand, remember the Cradle of Rebirth? I think that was a brilliant example of adding something unique with a bit of a platforming element and they did a great job of doing so within the limitations of FFXI movement. (Even if it was frustrating as hell at times.) More than anything, if a jump is implemented, I want Yoshi and his team to make absolutely sure it's done right. And with everything else on their plate right now, the last thing I want them working on is a jump feature.

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To call someone else's ideas immature just because you don't agree isn't very professional.

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^I wholeheartedly agree. It's a shame how popular this thread is considering the title...

"Won't fit into a world" is kind of a weak argument as far as jumping goes. lol
Considering people can jump and climb over obstacles irl... it actually seems less immersive to me when I'm stuck near a 2ft ledge in XI or XIV and I can't jump over it. I CAN SLAY MIGHTY BEASTS, CAST MAGIC AND BRING PEOPLE BACK FROM THE DEAD but oh this tiny ledge is too much for me. =(

...You see what I'm saying? lol

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Originally Posted by Shelia

^I wholeheartedly agree. It's a shame how popular this thread is considering the title...

"Won't fit into a world" is kind of a weak argument as far as jumping goes. lol
Considering people can jump and climb over obstacles irl... it actually seems less immersive to me when I'm stuck near a 2ft ledge in XI or XIV and I can't jump over it. I CAN SLAY MIGHTY BEASTS, CAST MAGIC AND BRING PEOPLE BACK FROM THE DEAD but oh this tiny ledge is too much for me. =(

...You see what I'm saying? lol

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Well if i had a boring and respectful title this thread would have fallen to the last page within minutes.... But with this, it sure fueled a lot of flame and talking.... got the thread to be over 6K views and moderators posted too!

It's two important topics and we got SE's attention with this thread.. if it wasn't for the title it would never have got there. Sorry if you felt offended.

Nah, I feel like the thread would've gotten attention otherwise if there was good content inside. But you know.

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Originally Posted by Shelia

"Won't fit into a world" is kind of a weak argument as far as jumping goes. lol
Considering people can jump and climb over obstacles irl... it actually seems less immersive to me when I'm stuck near a 2ft ledge in XI or XIV and I can't jump over it. I CAN SLAY MIGHTY BEASTS, CAST MAGIC AND BRING PEOPLE BACK FROM THE DEAD but oh this tiny ledge is too much for me. =(

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I do see your point, and it makes quite a bit of sense. When I said it wouldn't fit well in the world, I was referring more to the sets of invisible walls in place, and general style of movement already in the game. They would have to go over all of the present zones, remove these limitations, and create rules for falling big distances and taking damage. It's a much bigger project than simply making a button on your keyboard link to an animation on screen.

As far as the lore side of it goes, our inventories are how big?! I think it would be kinda hard to jump even an inch carrying 5 or 6 stacks of lumber or ore, let alone entire sets of armor. I suppose at the end of the day, that's what makes fiction and fantasy fun and exciting though. I've always appreciated that Final Fantasy at least tried to operate within reasonable limits. Ex, Killing that crawler probably won't yield gil or that giant 4-handed sword of the monkey you've been after.

Thanks for making my brain work! I think there's value on either side of it. I still think SE has much better things to be working on than jumping.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

I see great things for this thread's future.

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i see ppl saying the same thing and i agree i dont want spam jumping in ffxiv and i damn sure dont want open world pvp. If u wanna jump up and down and pk ppl like in wow.... why not just freakin play wow.... I like the lore and sophistication associated with ff online that i have not seen in any other mmorpg and i dont think that the 2 things open pvp or just spam jumping all over fits at all, I'm sure that alot would say the same wanna spam jump and pk ppl... blizzard has a over hyped cartoony game built just for that XD.... some form of a jump system for small elevations or drops in the terrain sure, i think all would say fine. If you ever played ffxi you know the statement "It just wouldn't fit" makes perfect sense.... this game was ment to be different than that yes but the majority of the xiv community are former or current xi players....that crap would just be awkward and ff online players i think want more co-operative social based pve play, where you and your ls mates get a feeling of unity and accomplishment of having overcome large feats together instead of the solo satisfaction pvking gives e-dick battlers. or maybe its just me =/

I saw the title and skipped the entire wall of text. The writer of the OP needs his mommy to spank him for sneaking online again.

Move on people.

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Thanks for making my brain work! I think there's value on either side of it. I still think SE has much better things to be working on than jumping.

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I agree... hahaha

They need to make FFXIV an actual game and less of a demo before they even consider implementing the jumping feature.

Personally I love PVP, both 1v1 and party PVP, but in FF I am against open world PVP even in "contested" regions. Being able to have a friendly duel with a rival is great and group PVP in FFXI like Brenner and Ballista is awesome (if you can find enough players for it) but I think the current community of past FFXI fans and the new generation of fans would appreciate both since it would not interfere with any current game play elements or character progression.

As for jumping I can live without it, but it would be nice to have if there was a 5 or 10 second cool down timer on the action so people could jump over tiny obstacles that would otherwise require players to inconveniently run around and this would also prevent people from spamming which I know would annoy some people.

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Originally Posted by MysteryG

I do see your point, and it makes quite a bit of sense. When I said it wouldn't fit well in the world, I was referring more to the sets of invisible walls in place, and general style of movement already in the game. They would have to go over all of the present zones, remove these limitations, and create rules for falling big distances and taking damage. It's a much bigger project than simply making a button on your keyboard link to an animation on screen.

As far as the lore side of it goes, our inventories are how big?! I think it would be kinda hard to jump even an inch carrying 5 or 6 stacks of lumber or ore, let alone entire sets of armor. I suppose at the end of the day, that's what makes fiction and fantasy fun and exciting though. I've always appreciated that Final Fantasy at least tried to operate within reasonable limits. Ex, Killing that crawler probably won't yield gil or that giant 4-handed sword of the monkey you've been after.

Thanks for making my brain work! I think there's value on either side of it. I still think SE has much better things to be working on than jumping.

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When a video game is too realistic it breaks all the fun and the game. We can carry 100 types of items and stacks of 99 oh each of these items. imagine how big the bag must be? or that is no doubt to heavy for a human being to carry....

Fantasy worlds are not about reality. Video games even less.... there's so much you cannot fit with reality.

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Originally Posted by Jibe

Can you stop posting in hot red please? Thanks.

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Hot red or not.. he makes a good point. Most of the people crying on these forums about jumping and world PVP are butt hurt anti-WoW idiots, who like to live up their own arses and will bash WoW no matter what. Heaven forbid people admit that wow has/had some amazing ideas.

Its not the Number 1 MMO for no reason. =)

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Originally Posted by Shelia

^I wholeheartedly agree. It's a shame how popular this thread is considering the title...

"Won't fit into a world" is kind of a weak argument as far as jumping goes. lol
Considering people can jump and climb over obstacles irl... it actually seems less immersive to me when I'm stuck near a 2ft ledge in XI or XIV and I can't jump over it. I CAN SLAY MIGHTY BEASTS, CAST MAGIC AND BRING PEOPLE BACK FROM THE DEAD but oh this tiny ledge is too much for me. =(

...You see what I'm saying? lol

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^This :) ....

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Originally Posted by Rawry

Hot red or not.. he makes a good point. Most of the people crying on these forums about jumping and world PVP are butt hurt anti-WoW idiots, who like to live up their own arses and will bash WoW no matter what. Heaven forbid people admit that wow has/had some amazing ideas.

Its not the Number 1 MMO for no reason. =)

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why are u posting in a ffxiv forum if wow is so awesome your should be playing that no? O.o;

The majority of posts I've seen on here seem to be quite ridiculous and immature. I find I have better discussion with my LS members because there is not an environment of volitility that makes having a discussion unbearable. So my advice to SE, if they are actually reading these posts, is to ignore the posts that contain a large amount of hateful rhetoric and focus only on the respectable posts.

Pvp should not be Open worl PVP such as in WOW.. if PVP was kept to "Ballistas and Arenas" I would definitly embrace them. Ballistas like ff11 style abd Arena Battles such as 1v1 2v2 up to like 6v6. I would like to see some kind of PvP but not open area PvP.

I always enjoyed PvP, I think it could be implemented if done right, for example you could do it like the PvP system in Star Wars Galaxies, where the player must first had to side with a faction, then consent to active duty, where your character became fair game to NPCs of the rival faction, (PvE basically) then while active, consent to join the Special Forces, which made you fair game to all players of opposing faction. (PvP) For FFXIV, I don't see this happening, but Ul'Dah has a colosium, at this time you can only enter it for PvE, and only for certain quests, but you could open it to PvP, and even have other players watch in the rafters, whether it be for one-on-one duels, or even team duels.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

There is a lot of debate about adding certain features to the game such as Jumping and PVP.

I will take those 2 for now as they are the most popular but it can be applied to other topics.

For those against Jumping, I respect your opinion and all but so far i have not seen a single reasonable argument not to add Jump to the game. The crazy thing is that in a post from Yoshi-P on the japanese forums he said he saw that people mostly are for adding a jump option but don't want a WOW style spamming and that he will take that into consideration when implementing it.

What i have against this approach is that i don't see how "I don't want WOW jumping monkeys running around Eorzea..." is a valuable argument. It's like making a petition to force SE to remove emote because people are abusing it. And no Jumping does not break immersion cuz if it does, a dozen other things already in the game have the potential of doing the same so let's all remove it right?

Is it really normal or the mature thing to do to completely dismiss a feature because few people are abusing it? The same thing could be said about a billion other things and i'm sorry but to me it makes no sense.

PVP is another example. Open world PVP will never happen and that is because too many people are against PK. Why? Because a few morons camped your ass and killed you over and over in WOW? I mean for me personally... when something like that happened i just called for backup and it was fun to give these people a taste of their own medecine and see them run away. Yes Yes i know, FF is a PVE game mainly but i don't think that most of you realize how well done PVP can be really fun and honestly make us interact with one another even more.

To those against open world PVP i propose this....

Cities and the areas around are neutral grounds. No PVP can take place there unless it is friendly duels initiated by both players/parties. Other areas could be contested territories and this is were open PVP and PK can take place... but wait! for those who don't like that, SE can add a on/off PVP flag option. Turning on the option means you are open to PVP and can be attacked by players from opposing..."companies?" turning it off means you are neutral and do not want to take part in that aspect of PVP.(Nobody can attack you)

Wouldn't this please those who are against it? I mean with that system you can't give me the argument of "i don't want to be attacked while farming" Those who wish for open world PVP will be happy too. There is absolutely no negative impact for those against open world PVP so if you disagree with me please give me a valuable argument.. same goes for jumping.

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So tell me then, what benefits would "jumping" bring? Because apparently, NOT having it is upsetting to you and the people who are in favor of a "jump" command.

I don't understand why people constantly talk about Open-world PVP in this game, whether it be in favor of or strongly against. It doesn't seem like a possibility as it doesn't even fit in the story... not even in most Final Fantasies. MMOs along the lines of Rift and WoW don't throw it in there for the sake of it; they have warring factions. FFXIV is just full of.... people. The Nations seem to have no differentiation, just places to go. No one is feuding, no one has an agenda.

They will not make it open world PVP.. if they had any plans of that the servers would of went online like that. They would never force people to be on a open world pvp server. Whoever wants jump can jump off a cliff. The only people who want open world PVP is Americans, most likely with a military backround. LOL :P Cause thats what they do! /hurrah

Yoshi-P already said there will not be open world PvP.

He also said that PvP is pretty low on their priority list for features to add at the current time. But they will have something for us later.

So.. if you want to discuss PvP, "open world" shouldn't even be mentioned at this point in time. It's not going to happen.

Oh yeah.. I said all of this like twenty pages ago and people are STILL talking about it.

Personally I can care less about a jump feature but I would go with the majority tho i've never seen any jump features in a FF other then DRG ability :P hehe. As for PvP i'm down for that for people who enjoy tho again I don't personally. Definetly keep it to an arena or maybe even impliment a whole area dedicated to pvp where players can one on one or even have massive pvp fights. Also have a PvE arena like they did in WG for FFXI where you could fight monsters for rewards n' what not that you cannot attain by normals means. Kudos.

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Originally Posted by Point_Zero

They will not make it open world PVP.. if they had any plans of that the servers would of went online like that. They would never force people to be on a open world pvp server. Whoever wants jump can jump off a cliff. The only people who want open world PVP is Americans, most likely with a military backround. LOL :P Cause thats what they do! /hurrah

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Eh....I'm American and I hate open world PvP or any PvP period so you're kinda wrong there bud. >.>

Here is the problem with open world PvP. It is not very Final Fantasy. The main concept of Final Fantasy is to band together to fight off evil. Some games it works like WoW, but I think it would simply be immature to add it into a FF MMO. Besides, what determines if you can gank someone or not? It isn't like you are separated by different factions who are against each other. It saddens me sometimes that some people look at this as an MMO before a Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by PandaTaru

You ask the dev to not listen to "immature" posts, yet you post the most immature, self-centered, post ever.

Congrats.



Please mods lock this thread before it get even worse with trolling.

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Whats wrong with that post, he made a simple suggestion and its suits both people for and against PVP. Your reply is both rude and pointless, all you managed to do was prove that your in a little bubble and you want to stay that way. Enjoy your failed game.

I think that PVP in FFXIV can be made in Arenas or colisseum like the one in uldah, party vs party's, and if its instanced they could try to join people in battle from different servers, that would evade people complaining about the battle from the same server.

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Eh....I'm American and I hate open world PvP or any PvP period so you're kinda wrong there bud. >.>

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he meant in general... obviously this doesn't apply to EVERY single American.

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Originally Posted by Grit

Yoshi-P already said there will not be open world PvP.

He also said that PvP is pretty low on their priority list for features to add at the current time. But they will have something for us later.

So.. if you want to discuss PvP, "open world" shouldn't even be mentioned at this point in time. It's not going to happen.

Oh yeah.. I said all of this like twenty pages ago and people are STILL talking about it.

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As much as I love open PvP, yeah, it's not going to happen. I don't like outright killing other players. I just like the idea that anyone can turn on me at any moment. I find it exhilarating. Even in fights with an opponent 20 levels higher than me. I love the challenge of surviving. Many things make up what Final Fantasy is, but I really don't think open PvP is one of them. Duels, an arena, capture the flag, those I'm all for.

/cheer --> OP. This sounds good to me ^^

PvP killed WoW for me and open world PvP in FFXIV will kill this game for me too. It is a pain to balance and because Blizzard really wanted to make WoW PvP an e-game they totally unbalanced the classes in PvE to make it work in PvP environment.

There are lots of other stuff to add and fix in FFXIV, before we even can start thinking about jumping and/or any form of PvP.

i'd love to see some pvp in this game that is done well, if ffxi added pvp during the wotg i think i'd still be playing it. i've said this b4 in other posts but even pvepvp would of been better then nothing. turning some of the campaign battles into more of a competition even would of made it more entertaining.

i never played wow endgame let alone the pvp so i can't say if it ruined it but i do know i left ffxi for warhammer and that taste of pvp was sweet and though i quit a year later i think having a awsome pve game like ffxi/ffxiv with some kind of pvp would go a very long way.

Other then the Olympic Games in Lineage II, that you can sign up and the system will organize a little 1 on 1 tournament, I would rather prefer not to have PvP on this game as this will result in a ascending number of rude players that usually ruin the gameplay for everyone else.

Regards,
Llan Hana.

Here is my ideas, and other ideas that I also agree on. It isn't much but I think it would make a pretty fun/sport PvP experience with new players and those who would be die hard pvp'ers. I myself will definitively be enjoying PvP whenever it is implemented, and I can't wait ^^; Well what you guys think?

1. Toggle on/off is a good idea
2. You can either accept a challenger or refuse
3. Large scale pvp-pve to complete an objective against other nations and beastmen. pvp-leve. I think rewards should be very huge with this idea. But, if any or all nations failed and the beastmen should win. it'll be a critical lost on regional control for materials etc.
4. PvP Operations, just like pvp-leve but you have to complete certain actions/task against opposing teams
5. Participants should have a class at least lv30 to take part in PvP I think. This way they can't abuse EXP in certain matches.