I've read that article before whoever wrote that seems to think "registered accounts" and "subscribers" are interchangeable when they aren't. When you click the "4 million paying subscribers" it takes you to the article about the registered accounts. I just think it's really strange that they've only released numbers once .*Shrugs* But thank you for posting the link for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krissey
As far as being the second most you're probably right since there really aren't many p2p mmos out right now.
Did Yoshida went a bit too far by cloning WoW?
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07-28-2015, 11:03 PMTerribad
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07-28-2015, 11:05 PMImmo187
This has 500k subs, not 4million. With million they mean registered accounts...
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07-28-2015, 11:10 PMbettomendes
LOL what...? These forums, omg...
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07-28-2015, 11:47 PMAkiza
The reason why the WoW formula gets reused is because players won't support anything that doesn't follow the formual look at The Secret World they immersion and character progression and the game went buy to play since it failed to maintain subcribers. Develepors should look at Saint Row IV when it comes to character creation, character progression and variety of content. Next up should be Grand theft Auto and finally the Infamous series. Those games have a lot of variety content that is fun and entertaining and they do character progression and rpg better than mmorpgs. Those games have strongholds where players fight waves of enimeis to take over territory. Over the top skills and abilities as well as the ability to enhance existing abilities. Persistence skill upgrades which single player games do MMORPG better than MMORPGS. This game needs short quest that are fun like insurance fraud Final Fantasy style.
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07-29-2015, 12:06 AMjadan2000
though i do like the game play much more in 2.0 then 1.0.. the UI could use some originality love! On my PC the game looks way better then the pics you have up though. it in no way looks close to WOW
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07-29-2015, 12:47 AMKaedanI'd like to see where you're getting that supposed 500k from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Immo187
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07-29-2015, 01:00 AMVelhart
Strange, I never seen someone post a topic about wanting 1.xx/FFXI back into FFXIV before. Not like this has not been constantly discussed since the concept of FFXIV:ARR.
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07-29-2015, 01:06 AMIzzyData
The original version didn't have UI elements? I suppose that is pretty unique. Risky move though.
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07-29-2015, 01:23 AMFelisIn 1.x you couldn't take a screenshout without turning off the UI. Also something that was unique ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by IzzyData
Here a picture with turned on UI
http://blenderartists.org/forum/atta...3&d=1366580054 -
07-29-2015, 01:24 AMKisaiTenshiI'd so LOVE a version of that. That is absolutely the most fun thing to do in Saints Row. Given how frustratingly silly the beast quests can be, it seems like this would be something the Goblins would do, if not the Moogles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
Of things that are in other games that I think could be added in-context. I'm not sure where Mabinogi ripped the commerce/trading system off from (probably Silkroad) but Archeage's version was far more fun once you combined it with mounts. A "DoL/DoH" type of FATE/Duty where half the party members are to protect the Airship/Chocobo-wagon and the other half have to "repair" it would be a lot of fun. I'd like to see an actual Duty or FATE that made use of the crafters/gatherers.
The articles pull the numbers from SE and Blizzard's public quarterly filings. They are required to put how much revenue, not necessarily how many active subscribers, since it's an arbitrary number once you consider free trials. You can do a little bit of math to figure out how many subscribers there are by counting the revenue and dividing by the subscriber fee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan
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07-29-2015, 01:26 AMVelhartUI in both FFXI and FFXIV 1.xx were built optimally for the controller. It was viable to play on a keyboard (KB/M somewhat on FFXIV), but the design of it was built mostly around the controller in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by IzzyData
~~~~~
Only thing the original FFXIV had going for it was it's graphical style, which was still another major flaw to the game. Using an engine that was not built to be optimized for an MMO (used the Crystal Tools engine from FFXIII). Yet they use it anyways, and even the nicest and highest spec PC's at the time could barely run the game it was so poorly programmed.
The seamless world was another major fault. It ended up creating repeated terrain that so obvious that even amateur developers would be embarrassed. Creating zones that also helped create a theme of the area was another brilliant idea by the 2.0 team.
If FFXIV was actually delayed and released when it was ready, it would of still been mediocre at best and not have the amount of numbers that FFXIV:ARR has today. Rebuilding the game from the ground up and its very approachable set up and system was one of the best decisions SE ever made and while I played 1.xx to the fullest, I would never choose to go back to it or it's archaic concepts. Just because you make something unique does not make it good. -
07-29-2015, 01:43 AMSubucnimorning
I don't agree that it looks similar to WoW, it looks very close in terms of interface but there is nothing wrong with that. It kills me that people get bent out of shape when Game A borrows ideas from Game B, as someone who has continuously been playing MMO's since EQ1 was released...it is a positive thing to take what works well in other games and apply it to this game.
The game is gorgeous graphically, I can promise you I never said that at any point in WoW, Aion, or Wildstar. The music in the game is iconic, the story is way better than any of those MMO's. There are things that make FFXIV unique while using some of the better parts of other game (like WoW interface).
In my opinion, not everything needs to be unique to FF to make it work. -
07-29-2015, 02:22 AMAeyis2.x (and as such 3.0) Is no different. The UI is also optimally build for the controller.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
UI is and always has been one of the games weak points. (for a PC user) -
07-29-2015, 03:35 AMCervani
Just.... no. Stop talking.
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07-29-2015, 03:42 AMWubstahWulf
Aion kinda copied FF XIV with one of ther expantions also Yoshi P had said that he played various MMO's including WoW, GW2 and what he did was he took the good stuff from thos games and put them in to FF XIV its not a clone its a unique game on its own
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07-29-2015, 03:46 AMVelox
If you want to compare MMOs, just use the theme park metaphor (not the one you're thinking of).
All theme parks have roller coasters, all theme parks have carousels, all of them have Ferris wheels, water slides, bumper cars, giant swings, tilt-a-whirls, etc. By the strictest logic, all theme parks are EXACTLY THE SAME. Yet millions of people worldwide visit many different parks during their lives. That's because, while they all share the same base elements, they all have a different theme that packages it all up. Both park A and park B might have roller coasters, but they don't have the SAME roller coasters.
FFXIV is not a WoW clone, because it if was, it would also have the exact same theme. No, both FFXIV and WoW are built around the same MMO base elements and each puts their own icing on the cake. -
07-29-2015, 04:01 AMTemjiu
I don't think the issue is just "WoW". And Yoshi didn't make his teams play WoW so they could copy WoW. He made them Play WoW because WoW took allot of the things that an MMO needed to hit success, and capitalized on them. Specifically base mechanics, and design intent. MMO's developed the way they are due to the overall player base. WoW simply streamlined allot of these things, and put them in a package that your average person could get into.
I remember back in early Vanilla days in WoW, it was funny to see all the comments and articles about how "normal" many of the people who played WoW were. This should tell you something about the MMO market as it was then...and as it is now. MMO players tend to me more mainstream now then they were back then, and allot of it has to do with the changing market, technologies, and player base. Not to mention timing....like putting into the market right before a huge growth spurt. it isn't that WoW did this stuff the best...but they had the smoothest and most well rounded package with these things in it. Yoshi simply understood this concept, which is honestly WHAT SAVED THIS GAME.
FFXIV is now currently one of only a few MMO's that can actually keep a sub model. That should tell you something about the direction they took the game. I have my issues still...lots of clunky systems still exist, but I can't say they did wrong with the game.
On the flip side...this is the first FF that I've had an interest in playing...so i could be biased. But I've been playing MMO's solely for long enough that I know what works and what doesn't. -
07-29-2015, 04:41 AMVelhartThat is not the truth. I can do way more in this game on a KB/M than I could hope on a controller.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
What I meant was 1.xx/FFXI had -one- set UI and it was built around the controller. 2.0 gave the option for two different UI's, one built specifically for KB/M and one for controller. -
07-29-2015, 05:00 AMJayjohn
Game of Thrones is a Shakespeare clone
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07-29-2015, 08:20 AMAkiza
Seeing as it takes 5+ years to develop a Final Fantasy game going the MMO route would probably be a better investment for SE unless they can do an annual or even semi annual release of Final Fantasy.
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07-30-2015, 12:06 AMBalipu
I have absolutely no interes in playing wow, but have a lot of interes in playing FFXIV. Of course that has more to do with Blizzard messing up WoD and not because of anything in particular Yoshie did.
I lik FFXIV cause of the story, the graphics (that were better in 1.0) the music, and all the Final Fantasy stuff. I like that patches bring actual stuff to do, and like everyone else I spent most of my time in the gold saucer in the first couple of months after its release.
So it's not because some awesome mechanic or unique feature. Now I admit, I love how crafting and gathering work like classes with gear, abilities, quests and storyling, and I love how you don't have to make alts, but these all carried over from 1.0
The QoL improvements are nice, but we need some clever innovation that can carry the game, cause the brand will only take it so far. -
07-30-2015, 01:06 AMFendred
They should not have copied the framework of World of Warcraft. People walk around with phones as powerful as the PCs back in those days, and being interconnected with thousands of other people playing the same thing isn't in and of itself a "magical" experience like it was ten years ago. FFXIV:ARR is good enough to justify its box price, but to ask for a subscription requires a sustainable experience. World of Warcraft got away with this because of the fact people in 2004 were enchanted with the idea of just being able to consistently talk with thousands of other people over the internet while playing just about any game. You heard me right. Just talking to people -- or hell, even reading the chat from that many people talking consistently -- was an awe inspiring new form of entertainment.
WoW could afford static content because even if people were bored, they'd still log on just to see what was new in general chat. Players were thus willing to pay for it. People like to pin Cataclysm as the sole cause for WoW's decline, but it really only jump started the inevitable. And FFXIV's developers aren't really pumping out more content than the WoW dev's were. They are just giving out bite sized portions so they can say they are adding content quickly. The WoW dev team at its height could run circles around Yoshida's development team (no offense to Yoshida, but they invented this stuff). -
07-30-2015, 01:38 AMArixtotleI played WoW at it's height and I just gotta say LOL. While the content was much better back then it was still not as consistent as FFXIV has been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fendred
Wrath of the Lichking Content Patches
3.0.2 - October 14, 2008 (Pre Wrath Patch)
3.0 - November 13, 2008 (Wrath Release)
3.1.0 - April 14, 2009 (Ulduar, Argent Tournament and Duel Spec); 6 month difference
3.2.0 - August 4, 2009 (Rerelease of a few instances and start of Arena season 7); 4 month difference
3.2.2 - September 22, 2009 (Rerelease of Onyxia's lair); 1 month difference but small patch
3.3.0 - December 8, 2009 (ICC and cross-server LFG); 3 months since small patch, 4 months since larger patch
3.3.5 - June 22, 2010 (Ruby Sanctum); 6 month difference
4.0.1 - October 12, 2010 (Pre-Cata release); 4 months difference
4.0 - December 7, 2010 (Cata relase)
WoW has always released the majority of their content through expansions and added patch content has always been small or just raids. FFXIV pumps out far more content far quicker than WoW did. BUT at the time they were the fastest output of content with the most overall content.
PS. I can do the earlier patches if you really want me to but it's pretty much the same. -
07-30-2015, 01:44 AMDaraliiWoW's also been consistently adding less per patch since like 4.1. The first content patch of Warlords of Draenor? Twitter integration and a selfie tool. That was it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arixtotle
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07-30-2015, 02:52 AMadn
I would say that FFXIV is not a clone of WoW but rather a highly-polished refinement of the WoW formula. FFXIV introducing the WoW formula to the Japanese market is nothing surprising (because WoW is not and never was a thing in Japan, the market was ripe for a game that properly introduced WoW-like gameplay to the Japanese market).
The game's structure differs radically in a number of ways such as:
-level of emphasis on PVP (in WoW it's an alternative to PVE; in ARR it's a minigame)
-expansion gating (WoW: no gates; ARR: very heavy gating)
-the way alt classes and crafting are handled (WoW: very restricted, need to make new characters for alts; ARR: almost completely unrestricted)
I think ARR is a fantastic game, but it does have its share of problems. They seem to be getting into a very established "groove" for the kind of content they're providing, and they do need to mix it up now and then because the current formula will not last forever. -
07-30-2015, 02:54 AMAyuhraAnd the lead content dev counts that as a MAJOR patch, and the new patch (Tanaan Jungle and Hellfire Citadel) as the second and final patch. That makes Warlords of Draenor an expansion with one actual content patch and going by how Blizzard usually times these things that patch may be lasting them about a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daralii
WoW at its peak was a fantastic game, I won't argue that, and it offered a lot to keep people busy but they fell off the "Regular Updates" wagon around Siege of Orgrimmar and so far they don't seem to be in any hurry to get back on it. -
07-30-2015, 03:18 AMDaraliiIt started back with Dragon Soul. There was something like 18 months between 4.3 and 5.0, and then it happened again with SoO. Ever since the end of Wrath, Blizzard has been cutting patch content while saying that it's so they can get the next expansion out sooner, and they've failed every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayuhra
I'm someone concerned that Yoshida's said similar things about yearly expansions, but I have more faith in him than any of the higher ups on WoW's team. I followed their tweets and interviews before I quit, and they are just impressively out of touch or stupid. -
07-30-2015, 04:22 AMAeyisAll of its patches added content. And not just raids either, altho one raid per patch is more then we have here. Honestly, wow has a lot of things it fails at, but dont compare patch content between these 2 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arixtotle
The only reason why it seems we get content faster here is because they release smaller amounts at a faster rate. Each content update in wow had more in it then we got here, however.
And lets not compare expansions either, since pretty much each of WoWs expansions redesigned class or gameplay mechanics.
That's because they dont have to answer to investors and what not, and this is far from SE's only ship out on the water.Quote:
Originally Posted by Temjiu
And let's be honest here. If we held a poll and see how many of us forum goers play this game because ''it's final fantasy'' that would probably be 90%+ of us.
It is, unfortunately. Many of the ui components (for example storing items, or selecting quest items for turn in) work very clunky without a controller. Either it's optimized for use with a controller or it's just poorly designed; your pick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
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07-30-2015, 04:34 AMArixtotleDepends on how you define patch. I listed all the patches for Wrath that added any kind of content as well as the dates and what was added. Here in FFXIV we get MORE patches with MORE content per patch. Do I really need to do a list of patches from 2.X FFXIV? I mean, isn't it enough to know that we started with only two endgame dungeons and ended with SEVENTEEN? And no, each patch in WoW did not add more content then a FFXIV patch. Each patch in 2.X gave us a few instances, a raid and story quests at the very least. That's more than any WoW content patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
And you say that last thing as if it's a good thing. Redesigning classes and gameplay is one of the things that has caused such a drop in subscribers. Do you know how many Feral Druids left when they made it so you couldn't shapeshift out of roots? Then there was just the max exodus when they said they would no longer have flying. Redesigning core elements of a game just pushes away the core playerbase. -
07-30-2015, 08:34 AMTerribadMost of it's story quests, which the average FF player cares about and the average mmo player doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arixtotle
I personally wouldn't call a rehash of old dungeons/trials plus 1 new dungeon "a lot of content". Especially when the dungeons/trials don't really drop anything worth while. Or keeps dropping reskinned ponies. -
07-30-2015, 10:14 AMgorezilla1What anime is your sig from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Onikimaru
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08-17-2015, 07:53 AMNaraku_Diabolos
But WoW combat is just spanking invisible ass and throwing invisible objects. The combat isn't even close to what we have on FFXIV; their characters just stand there and there's no actual dodging. Heck, ESO crafting looks like they are jerking off on a robotic animation; crafting in FFXIV has characters who are interacting with what they are doing.
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08-17-2015, 08:33 AMGumbercules
idk i only played wow for like a decade, guess i haven't played it enough to see where ff 14 is a "wow clone" >.> Does ff 14 "borrow" alot of the current MMO standards? yes it does. so did ff 11 at its "time".
Allods was pretty much a wow clone...with a great dedication to its environment and feel. In that case the wow clone tag didn't necessarily lead to a bad product. I also personally consider RIFT a wow clone, and a really well made and maintained game. Guess what we decide to chuck to being a clone changes considerably from person to person :P