More gender locked clothing

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Originally Posted by Totobi

Because this isn't a real issue.

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More like PR isn't going to let them address something that's blatantly pandering to one portion of players.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

People care enough to keep creating this thread, and if the community team isn't blind they would have seen them and relayed the feedback to the development team. At this point all these threads are doing is creating disputes and unnecessary drama between players.

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The problem has yet to be fixed, and indeed gets worse every patch or so when they release yet MORE gender-locked gear, so clearly there's still a need for the threads. Either the comunity team doesn't think we're serious enough, or the dev team doesn't, but either way, the only thing to do is KEEP ASKING until we get what we want.

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Originally Posted by Totobi

Because this isn't a real issue.

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It's a real issue if paying customers believe it is...which we must, since people keep making and posting in these threads.

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Originally Posted by Core1019

And the broom quests are?

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to be fair saying you will stop making a certain quest is much easier then making new and unique outfit designs.

my question is how are they suppose to even the score without making new outfits with no female counterpart and making them mad? ( i mean if males had more options and females needed more how would it feel to see lots of cool new female only outfits that would be cool to have a male version)
the only way to actually even it out is go back and put male only on the items.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

It's a real issue if paying customers believe it is...which we must, since people keep making and posting in these threads.

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well this is only so true, while i wouldn't say it's not an issue saying it's an issue because a few threads pop up doesn't exactly mean is it. (little issues that come up here and there but vanish because only a few people want it)



(now for my imput!)

i personally have no issues with either sex having more clothing options (definilty with how it is and females can access our gear and it's not like they have literally whole sets without male counterparts)

the only thing i do care is iconic character outfits being gender locked (like gambler was going to be but got changed why shouldn't females get to wear the set or a female counterpart)
like lightnings gear is snows for males! clouds is the same for both!

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

my question is how are they suppose to even the score without making new outfits with no female counterpart and making them mad?
the only way to actually even it out is go back and put male only on the items.

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SE has no problem spending more time to make female only gear, it would be only fair that it would be males turn once in a while. I'm tired of paying the same price as another player every month only to get locked out of something that matter to me just because I went with a male character, especially after one of the mod on the OF did say that they would be working on more male specific glamours, only to give us another unisex and female only set X months later.

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well this is only so true, while i wouldn't say it's not an issue saying it's an issue because a few threads pop up doesn't exactly mean is it. (little issues that come up here and there but vanish because only a few people want it)

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Those treads usually disappear because they receive no attention/reply from mods. People have been asking for equal gear for more than a year now and most of those thread despite always getting hateful comments also gets lots of support.

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... and it's not like they have literally whole sets without male counterparts)

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If I'm not mistaking the number of gear that female only can wear is getting pretty close to 20. And yes there are a few sets that don't have any male version.

People who don't bother with glamour won't see any issue about the actual situation, but as someone who really like glamours and to dress my character as I want this is getting extremely annoying and unjustified.

Suuuuppoooorrrt. I want to see male roes in pretty, pretty dresses <3 <3 <3

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Originally Posted by Colorful

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I mean sure, but that's because people also care in the opposite direction as well. If everyone got along all the time, then there wouldn't really be a good way at keeping a thread alive. Look at the "Au Ra horns" thread, it's hard to keep afloat because no one really disagrees in it, but even at 90+ pages it took a Q&A Live letter to get a response, when it should've been done in the thread itself. Either way, it's still an issue, and it's not far to the people who want this to go "Can you guys stop making these threads? Maybe the devs have seen it, but all these threads do is lead to disagreements"

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Originally Posted by myahele

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The live letter was really disappointing honestly >_> Like I really wish the devs would be a bit more open and responsive to what they're doing without requiring an entire Live letter to dedicated to a bunch of questions, as that only gives each question like a tiny snippet response. :\

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

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It's easier.. But like man, the quests are a bit annoying sure, but you can always look up a guide online. Same thing with Aether currents.

Honestly, I don't think it is possible to make gender locked sets and everyone be happy, hence the only solution is to make every set unisex. If you make "Male only" items, a ton of people playing girl PCs are going to be upset, so while they're making it "equal" it's at the expense of another demographic, which still isn't actually fair.

I mean, I get the want for iconic sets to be gender locked, but does it really matter too much? I mean heck, the really only part of the Lightning that's notably "feminine" is the short skirt, but whatever, not like guys in the game don't already wear more feminine stuff that skirts, same thing with Snow's outfit too. Either way, I'm sure there's some players who want to wear the Lightning set on a guy, and vise versa, keeping them gender locked does nothing but prevent these players from having more options, which isn't fair.

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Originally Posted by Ymal

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Agreed, however the more fair (And honestly easier thing) would be just to put their nose to the grindstone and make all outfits unisex. I mean, I'm gonna be a little upset if I can't wear something like some loose shorts like the current Moonfaire set (Especially considering everyone's lacking in regards to that), however I want SE just make it so both sets are wearable. No more gender locked clothes, because that's just removing potential clothing options from people all together.

And I agree, it's more that these threads either people just get tired of doing "Bump!" over and over or the overtly negative (And honestly completely unneeded) comments just turn people from discussion (Specifically with regards to this topic). I really wish the devs let us look more into the current process of things instead of just giving us vague responses about a lot of things, I really want to know why some things are difficult, why they can do some things, why they can't do other things, et cetera, but currently all we can do is hope for really vague responses in the forums, a Q&A live letter (Which will probably be equally vague), or wait til we hopefully get evidence changed in a live letter or when the patch hits.

I think someone on the forums managed to count each vanity set, and it came up with 12 more pieces of gear iirc, but I could be wrong.

i just wish there would be zero gender-specific clothing and that everyone could wear everything. maybe i want a skirt and fishnets on my male character, okay.
i mean, it's not going to happen, but.

I would be totally down with a Dr. Frank N. Furter cosplay.

Either way, I'm not too bothered. Most of the exclusive outfits are for the real-doll masturbatory aid outfits anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

Most of the exclusive outfits are for the real-doll masturbatory aid outfits anyway.

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This made me lol really loud for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

I think someone on the forums managed to count each vanity set, and it came up with 12 more pieces of gear iirc, but I could be wrong.

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Well I just recounted and I'm finding 17 pieces of gear that are female locked vs no male version/unisex. They may have not taken in account the same criteria as mine though.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Agreed, however the more fair (And honestly easier thing) would be just to put their nose to the grindstone and make all outfits unisex.

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And I would also prefer this solution, but one mod made the comment of how difficult it was to make gear go from female>male compared to male>female, so it seem the only way for us to get more glamour is for them to make directly the male version, but all male version turn into unisex gear.

I don't see why they just can't give us more gear like the famous dom/dow set from Dzemael that changes appearance depending of the gender of the character without needing two version, this would solve the problem right away :/

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

my question is how are they suppose to even the score without making new outfits with no female counterpart and making them mad? ( i mean if males had more options and females needed more how would it feel to see lots of cool new female only outfits that would be cool to have a male version)
the only way to actually even it out is go back and put male only on the items.

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Obvious answer is: No gender locked gear. Everyone can wear everything. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Ymal

And I would also prefer this solution, but one mod made the comment of how difficult it was to make gear go from female>male compared to male>female

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Because they can't comprehend revealing clothing for guys beyond subligar? Maybe they should hire better design artists.

question 1 Huh?
question 2 Where is this Thav set got from?
Fun fact the female body is the Bard Osode from FFXI
question 3 how do I acquire it?
question 4 can it be dyed
and question 5 see question 1

To everyone wanting to dress a dude like a ballerina... Gross gross gross, female characters let us run around naked the world will be a beautiful place but dudes head to toe armor armor armor don't wanna see a single bit of skin. as to guys in subligar still not enough covering, ladies though enjoy. As a female miqo in game i think all clothing is evil the less she wears the more comfortable she looks but the dudes running around half naked makes my eyes bleed.

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Originally Posted by TThibi

question 2 Where is this Thav set got from?
Fun fact the female body is the Bard Osode from FFXI
question 3 how do I acquire it?
question 4 can it be dyed

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2) It's the new crafted glamor gear. Thavnairian Headdress, Thavnairian Bustier, Thavnairian Armlets, Thavnairian Tights
3) Level 60 1 star craftable with ingredients dropped from new Maps.
4) Yes, It can be dyed.

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Originally Posted by TThibi

To everyone wanting to dress a dude like a ballerina... Gross gross gross, female characters let us run around naked the world will be a beautiful place but dudes head to toe armor armor armor don't wanna see a single bit of skin. as to guys in subligar still not enough covering, ladies though enjoy. As a female miqo in game i think all clothing is evil the less she wears the more comfortable she looks but the dudes running around half naked makes my eyes bleed.

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Are you being serious or are you really that hypocritically biased and bigoted?

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Originally Posted by TThibi

As a female miqo in game i think all clothing is evil the less she wears the more comfortable she looks but the dudes running around half naked makes my eyes bleed.

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http://i.imgur.com/3EsGlRc.png

oops

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

oops

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Have I ever mentioned how wonderful you are?

Very hard to say no to such sexy bodies. <3

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Originally Posted by KaijinRhada

Have I ever mentioned how wonderful you are?

Very hard to say no to such sexy bodies. <3

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Ohhh, shucks. Gonna make me blush~

The only time those with female characters complained about inequality, from what I remember, was when they released images of the Gamblers set and Bunny sets.

Up until devs said they'd make the Gamblers set unisex, it was assumed for a long time that both was gender locked and that caused a riot. It was understandable since it kinda wasn't thematically equal: 1 was a high rolling gambler ....other was a playboy bunny and such a dress had negative connotations.

When the images of the Thavnairian sets 1st released nobody complained when it was thought that it would be both genderlocked .... although people did correctly predicted that the males will be unisexed.

It pretty obvious, to me, that the male's version becoming unisex was an afterthought by the dev team. If you looked at the post there was an asterisks added a few days later saying that females could wear it too. With that + no pictures of females wearing it I think they took the time to convert it for female avatar

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

http://i.imgur.com/3EsGlRc.png

oops

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How is it called that piece of clothing??

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

How is it called that piece of clothing??

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That would be the male Au Ra version of Hempen Underpants.

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Originally Posted by Ymal

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I think it might've been in Nozomikei's thread, but I can't quite remember. Anyways, nice recount though.
See, I'd really love to know how the heck it's hard to make gear go from female > male. I really don't see how it'd be more work, Lalafell have the same bodies, and Roegadyn women already have pretty masculine bodies sans the chest, it seems just as much work to modify it for those two as it would be for men in general. Alternatively, I don't get why SE just doesn't start every set on men then works to the women version of it.

I mean, I dunno, I don't think those sets change too much on men or women, ideally I'd hope the sets to just be unisex, I kinda like the goofy more covering look to the taffeta on men, especially considering the sever lack of shorts in this game (Like the WHM bottoms turning from like weird shorts to a super mini skirt on girls >_> )

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Originally Posted by myahele

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Just wish making the girl's version of the set would get the same treatment >_> I would love it if those guys who want more skirts and fishnets and whatnot got the same treatment.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

How is it called that piece of clothing??

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I love that the answer to this is that SE literally designed that skimpy skirt/thong combo exclusively for the male half of a race. No question about who it was intended for. XD Thank you for that gift SE.

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Originally Posted by NozomiKei

I love that the answer to this is that SE literally designed that skimpy skirt/thong combo exclusively for the male half of a race. No question about who it was intended for. XD Thank you for that gift SE.

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Well, with a body like this... ;)

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

I think it might've been in Nozomikei's thread, but I can't quite remember. Anyways, nice recount though.

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That was me that posted that. And it was posted before 3.0 and Thavnairian was officially released, THUS it didn't have the Thavnairian sets listed, so with the Thavnairian sets, it's 17 pieces of gear. I've updated it now though :P

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Originally Posted by Terrini

That was me that posted that. And it was posted before 3.0 and Thavnairian was officially released, THUS it didn't have the Thavnairian sets listed, so with the Thavnairian sets, it's 17 pieces of gear. I've updated it now though :P

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Oh okay! Thanks Terrini for relinking it.

This claim that it's difficult to go from a female outfit to a male one... how does that make any sense? Women can wear "mens" clothing, but not the opposite, (because they're terrified of cross-dressing) so they have to redesign? Kill the concept of "cross-dressing" entirely and just let people wear what they like already. We don't need different designs. Hell, even WoW figured that out. Plenty of guys wearing the pretty dresses there.

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Originally Posted by JarinArenos

This claim that it's difficult to go from a female outfit to a male one... how does that make any sense?

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I feel like basic anatomy should clue you in.
You make men clothes loose fitting. Add some nubs to count as boobs and boom its female.

You make female clothes to show off the girls and you try to slap that on a guy he's going to end up with moobs unless they overhaul the entire shape and design of the armor. I get this and it's an acceptable answer to the problem of "unisex everything!" However, it does not solve the problem of how or why females get 2x the glamour sets than men do. It's arbitrarily unfair that men are limited and women are not.

Edit because: char limit

There was a particular SPOILER earlier of a man IN THIS GAME wearing a dress and when that scene happened I personally thought "AWW UNFAIR" not because I'm gay or trans and want to cross dress (I am none of these things) but simply because he can wear it and be silly and I can't. I can't wedding-ring teleport to my wife while she's minding her own business to surprise her with the new spring dress I crafted for her and am now lovingly modeling. That's just comedy. There's no reason to polarize the population over this issue.

No matter the reason, limiting one set of players on what they can do is unfair. Period.

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Originally Posted by Shai

I feel like basic anatomy should clue you in.
You make men clothes loose fitting. Add some nubs to count as boobs and boom its female.

You make female clothes to show off the girls and you try to slap that on a guy he's going to end up with moobs unless they overhaul the entire shape and design of the armor. I get this and it's an acceptable answer to the problem of "unisex everything!" However, it does not solve the problem of how or why females get 2x the glamour sets than men do. It's arbitrarily unfair that men are limited and women are not.

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So they can expand the chest and add boob covers but can't shrink or remove them. I... don't think I follow your logic.

Edit: A response to your edit: Yes, I totally agree, that's unfair. I'm just irritated at the response of men here being "take away male clothing from females" rather than "give men female outfits"

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Originally Posted by JarinArenos

So they can expand the chest and add boob covers but can't shrink or remove them. I... don't think I follow your logic.

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My logic is they are building gear to show off boobs.
They aren't building man-gear to do this.

It's probably easier to scale an armor to fit smaller shoulders than it is to physically remove giant gazongas from the entire design.
Now mind you, this argument does not apply to Lalafell at all as they have imaginary gazongas.
If gear fits Lala girls, it should fit Lala boys with absolutely no changes necessary.

Also worth noting that things like the Spring Dress don't really show off boobs at all, so it doesn't really apply to that either.
I'm thinking more about the bunny suit and the new Thav suit specifically.

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Originally Posted by Shai

If gear fits Lala girls, it should fit Lala boys with absolutely no changes necessary.

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There's no significant difference in armor design between a female lala and a female highlander. If showing male collarbones offends someone, I'm sure they can raise the neckline a bit for guys. They have no problems adding a strip of cloth for open-shirt outfits on girls.

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Originally Posted by JarinArenos

There's no significant difference in armor design between a female lala and a female highlander. If showing male collarbones offends someone, I'm sure they can raise the neckline a bit for guys. They have no problems adding a strip of cloth for open-shirt outfits on girls.

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I am talking about the curvature of the chest.
Are you saying there is no curvature of the chest area on a Highlander compared to a Lala? I highly disagree.
If you are showing off cleavage in excess, you have designed gear that is curved. It's not just "covering" or something. The entire gear piece has a curve to it to cover the areas. If you want to slap that gear on a man, it will have the same curves to cover his man-boobs. The difference is that unisex gear doesn't show off boobs, or it's completely different armor set if it is (which mind you is perfectly acceptable solution to this problem) but what it boils down to is a brand new piece of gear that they have to design.



The argument here is "We can't just turn off the Female Only flag and have the gear look right on a man. It must be redesigned." While the opposite is almost always not true. We can slap man-gear on a woman and call it a day because it still covers all the right parts and shapes.

I'm not really defending their argument, I'm just not sure how you can't see that men with boobs would be awkward but women with nubs under loose fitting clothes is fairly normal.

Are you thinking of clothes in real life that shape to form? Because gear doesn't. It's designed in a particular shape.

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Originally Posted by JarinArenos

A response to your edit: Yes, I totally agree, that's unfair. I'm just irritated at the response of men here being "take away male clothing from females" rather than "give men female outfits"

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I just read your edit to my edit - haha stupid char limits.

Anyway, I completely agree with you. As I illustrated I can think of scenarios where it would be funny to wear women's clothing. I have nothing against them taking off the restrictions. I would probably even prefer it. However in the essence of equality there are a handful of solutions - not just "unisex everything" - and personally I would accept any of them. I would accept more Male Only. I would accept no more unisex (though that would be the worst possible). I would prefer universal unisex because it's a game and people should be able to have fun and play how they want.

Do I think it will happen? No, probably not. I would like to see this change in some manner, though.

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Originally Posted by Shai

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Adding that "curve" or taking it away, it's still an alteration of the model. And it's a more minor one, since going from male to female, they literally have to add parts to the model that didn't exist before (any open shirt suddenly needs a chest cover). Going from female to male, those outfits are already designed to have variable curve since they can have to cover the entire chest-slider range. They follow the model; thus, all that would need to be done is rigging the outfit to a different model... exactly the same work that they have to do for giving "male" gear to female models.

The designer argument that it's more work the other way is entirely based on a fear of letting men wear "womens" clothing, so they'd be "forced" to redesign it into something less feminine. They're not even considering just directly converting the same outfit.

i know im kinda off topic but i want more race specific gear...

At the end of the day offering female exclusive outfits to male characters doesn't really do much to tackle the issue that is a lack of distinct clothing for male characters to invest in and wear. Let's say we do get the female clothing available for men. What then? A vocal minority of players will be happy - but if they really wanted their character to wear a specific dress they could just as easily create a female character. People who prefer to dress their male characters in gear designed for men will still be screwed over by the lack of options.

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Originally Posted by JarinArenos

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See, I dunno, while I agree with you that it wouldn't be any more work than going from male -> female, I don't think the lack of effort on SE's part comes from them not wanting to convert it out of fear or something, they're just lazy. Like.. We have plenty of sets that would quantify as "feminine", the skirts and loincloths in particular, so I really just think SE doesn't want to out of purely lazy reasons in this case.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

At the end of the day offering female exclusive outfits to male characters doesn't really do much to tackle the issue that is a lack of distinct clothing for male characters to invest in and wear. Let's say we do get the female clothing available for men. What then? A vocal minority of players will be happy - but if they really wanted their character to wear a specific dress they could just as easily create a female character. People who prefer to dress their male characters in gear designed for men will still be screwed over by the lack of options.

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Clarify what you mean by "gear designed for men" then? What is exclusively masculine in design that female characters couldn't wear? I still haven't seen anything to this argument other than exclusivity for exclusivity's sake.

The problem isn't with being able to wear dresses as men. My issue is I'm a white mage, and I'm sorry but I've been stuck wearing the southseas talisman literally since level 30, because EVERY WHM body gear is a fricken dress! The Scylla's Robe of Healing from WoD is a perfect example, it's bright purple, feathery, huge like an old woman's frock. There's literally nothing that is masculine at all. Like just because I'm a healer doesn't mean I don't want to rock some cool ninja armor or gear, why do they think we want to wear dresses and women's clothes since that's pretty much what it is. Every time I get new gear it's like ooooh, try on, just for disappointment. It would be cool if you could glamor stuff from your sub classes, like want to be a WHM wearing a BLM level 50 body outfit? No problem, you just need to also have a BLM at 50 type thing.

I didn't realize females can wear men's clothing, so kind of weird they don't do it in the reverse. To the morons on here though saying they don't want to see a guy in a dress because that's wrong or gross, like honestly grow up. What makes you think we want to see you wearing whatever it is that you wear? Or that we want to see girls running around in the bikinis? Always so funny to me that just because someone doesn't agree with something, that automatically makes it bad. Ever think females playing or gay men might want to see guys in hot looking clothes as well? I'm gay so I don't care what girls wear, I'm hardly paying attention to it. They could be naked for all I care, but it hardly upsets me or makes me feel like throwing up. To any of the guys on here commenting that seeing a guy half naked playing makes them want to puke, then I'm sorry but you have bigger issues to deal with if something like that makes you sick.

All anyone is asking for is fairness in the gear. One sex shouldn't get more gear than the other, especially since most players seem to be male characters on here. All we're asking for is gear that actually looks good for men or is designed for them. WHM feels like it was all designed for women and then at the last minute they thought "I know how we can save some time, just have men use the same gear, even if it is a long dress. We'll call it a robe to make it sound more unisex." Playing as BRD and other DPS classes I didn't have any issue, most gear looked great for men. It's the healer gear that is literally entirely for women and then extended to men.

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Originally Posted by 416to305

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I agree. It seems as if the devs of this game believe that healing = a females job, although I suppose I can't blame them for the belief seeing that most of the healers in previous FF games were all female. As such, many healer (and somewhat casters) sets post 2.0 seem to have a heavy female aesthetic to them to the point that they're really dresses. But yes, let's call them "robes"

People say that the devs have "better things to do than masculinize an otherwise female clothes" and yet we've seen them take the time to feminize a male clothing as seen with the Gamblers Set (after alot of complaining) and followed by the latest Thavnairan set.

I also refuse the argument that is too much work for them to make male gear now. It can't be that hard to make it plus you have hundreds of items from other classes you can very easily modify slightly and reuse if necessary.