Your thoughts on Astrolgian so far?

All this butthurt about ast srsly , ast is fine the way it is , its hybrid class and it will never ever ever ever be better than its direct counterpart at either shielding/mitigation or healing , by doing that ast will be too strong. Too many ppl hyped about ast and the flashiness of their skills same as drk , you all want the cake and eat it too, but no.

With the current trend of tanks speed running these dungeons "non over geared tanks" make it reeaaaaaally hard to keep up.
7/10 times after all those big pulls i ask for my mp to re charge at boss but they dont care and just pull = me having to heal with only 20-30% mp ish.
Seriously barely any tanks will wait for u now to recover cuz they expect u to just "magically" recover mp during the fight like a sch. U chug all tht remaining mp while u let ur refresh work = still at 20% mp lol

Ppl always want to take the easier path = why bring ast if the other healers r more stronger in the current meta of mass pulling/ high aoe burst dmg.

I'd love to see someone solo heal as ast, even with echo it just seems impossible.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

All this butthurt about ast srsly , ast is fine the way it is , its hybrid class and it will never ever ever ever be better than its direct counterpart at either shielding/mitigation or healing , by doing that ast will be too strong. Too many ppl hyped about ast and the flashiness of their skills same as drk , you all want the cake and eat it too, but no.

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We got no cake, all we got was a fork to help other ppl eat the cake at our own expense. Hence the support type.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

We got no cake, all we got was a fork to help other ppl eat the cake at our own expense. Hence the support type.

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agreed. Sometimes I don't think people really understand. In fact I think SCH got their cake and got to eat it too - they have not really sacrificed much for their versatility and utility (support, dps and decent heals with fairy AND excellent mp amangement).

It's just going to be summoner and dragoon all over again - people are going to refuse to raid with ast's unless they get decent buffs.

I've yet to play truly challenging 8 man content, but in the few 8 mans I've played, most healers don't really know how to react to Astrologian. They tend to act as though you are the WHM to their SCH, or vice versa, or ignore you entirely, but I don't think AST will be able to shine like that. They simply don't have the specialization. I feel that AST should act to cover the other healer's blind spots, while they work to cover AST's.

The WHM/AST dynamic seems fairly straightforward, WHM healing like they do best, with AST buffing and DPS'ing, stepping in to mitigate and spot heal. AST/SCH seems fuzzy, but I'm curious to see how they work if they meet halfway. AST needs some help to deal with burst healing, which brings up complaints about SCH's DPS uptime, but you end up with two healers that can buff the party in myriad ways and apply high potency DoT's without the need for accuracy to compensate. I'd need to spend some time with coordinated players to really feel out the dynamics of full party play.

That puts AST in a tricky position, because it benefits the most from interacting with the other healer. WHM and SCH act more as separate entities working towards the same goal, whereas AST seeks to cooperate with the other. This isn't inherently a bad thing, except for the fact that, if your co-healer goes down, you'll find yourself in a tight spot very fast if they can't be revived in time for important mechanics. I'll withhold my judgement for now, not having much first hand experience, but I still find AST to be a lot of fun to play, and don't plan on quitting it any time soon.

what is this legendary AST support i heear so much about?

Has anyone seen it?



Certainly cant be the 5% party AE speed buff or dmg bonus every minute with optimal cards?
Because the scholar fairy can do that too.

While it's true they are in a tricky position, I'm not sure how you're supposed to "cooperate" with each other with AST in the group. At most, I see that as meaning you'll have to spend more time healing (to make up for the difference) and managing mana, while AST flips through cards and hopefully pulls an Ewer to help you out on MP. AST lacks heavily on burst healing capability and on-demand utility; something both WHM and SCH bring to the table, respectively.

I see working alongside AST to be more trouble than it's worth and less reliable, so far. I'm just not seeing AST as equal in value to what a WHM or SCH brings to the table, especially when all fights are heavily scripted and patterned. SCH will always have Sacred Soil, Fey Wind, etc. AST will never be able to rely on pulling the proper card combinations at the right time.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

All this butthurt about ast srsly , ast is fine the way it is , its hybrid class and it will never ever ever ever be better than its direct counterpart at either shielding/mitigation or healing , by doing that ast will be too strong. Too many ppl hyped about ast and the flashiness of their skills same as drk , you all want the cake and eat it too, but no.

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Lol. Please if it is to post stupid thing, don't bother.

Hybrid class ? how is AST an hybrid class ? Can it dps ? No, a SCH and a WHM do it better. Can it tank ? no.
Oh you're talking about the cards ? Those random thing that never give you what you need and which are minor at best ? yeah, no. AND Fyi, your fairy has a mass dispell and a party wide haste buff, which is not random.

Please tell me more about the hybrid class that is AST.

Did we ask to be better ? No. Did we asked to be ON PAR ? yes.

We're flexible, so it's a given that we'll be weaker than WHM in terms of raw healing power and SCH in terms of mitigation. However we need to have a robust card system to make up for the shortfall and in its current state it just isn't sufficient.

Not to mention we are plagued with some of the most mind boggling abilities like Celestial Opposition (You get to extend your buffs by 5 secs, every 150 sec wow that sure helps) and Collective Unconscious (mediocre healing/mitigation but in exchange you can't do anything else). What's up with these!?

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Originally Posted by Aphel

We're flexible, so it's a given that we'll be weaker than WHM in terms of raw healing power and SCH in terms of mitigation. However we need to have a robust card system to make up for the shortfall and in its current state it just isn't sufficient.

Not to mention we are plagued with some of the most mind boggling abilities like Celestial Opposition (You get to extend your buffs by 5 secs, every 150 sec wow that sure helps) and Collective Unconscious (mediocre healing/mitigation but in exchange you can't do anything else). What's up with these!?

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A robust card system ?
Please explain to use how the cards are good ?

Tell me when there is that DPS check, your going to pull a Royal Road card buff and save us all.. Then ill show you how yoru most likely getting Spire or ewer.

That's why I said we 'need' to get a robust system.

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Originally Posted by Aphel

That's why I said we 'need' to get a robust system.

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Yep my bad :P

I loved the concept of the AST... But its going to be just like WAR vs PLD again back when game re-released.

WAR was junk, everyone wanted PLD's... SE didnt believe what players were saying.. then took 5-6 months to change WAR.

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

While it's true they are in a tricky position, I'm not sure how you're supposed to "cooperate" with each other with AST in the group. At most, I see that as meaning you'll have to spend more time healing (to make up for the difference) and managing mana, while AST flips through cards and hopefully pulls an Ewer to help you out on MP. AST lacks heavily on burst healing capability and on-demand utility; something both WHM and SCH bring to the table, respectively.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

I feel that AST should act to cover the other healer's blind spots, while they work to cover AST's...

The WHM/AST dynamic seems fairly straightforward, WHM healing like they do best, with AST buffing and DPS'ing, stepping in to mitigate and spot heal. AST/SCH seems fuzzy, but I'm curious to see how they work if they meet halfway. AST needs some help to deal with burst healing, which brings up complaints about SCH's DPS uptime, but you end up with two healers that can buff the party in myriad ways and apply high potency DoT's without the need for accuracy to compensate.

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I stated two ways exactly how, maybe there is another dynamic I've yet to see. AST needs only a few seconds to put up their DoT's that will never miss, and will do more damage than a SCH spamming Ruin after applying their DoT's. Since SCH has a more specialized toolkit, I can only hope they can handle healing for these brief periods without depleting their MP, before returning to their DPS.

We don't even know the burst demands that we'll encounter in the coming Alexander battles. If the need for burst continues to rise, AST will absolutely fall behind, especially being subject to RNG. I don't see AST needing an overhaul to meet the standards of support that they're expected to achieve, but I do think they could use minor tweaking to streamline them.

Everyone was well aware astro wasnt meant to be on par healing with a whm or sch, why do people getting trying that trump card?

Astro is for players that are more skilled. People who have never had any issues keeping people alive. I myself have been laughing at people posting they are struggling to keep their pt alive in new dungeons, I havn't run into that at all. The 5% potency from stance puts your cures almost on par with whm, so maybe you're just bad healers. I mained whm and sch before heavensward, and am aware they trump in raw healing power, even though its not by much. Astro is much more fun to play imo cause you get to play with card buffs while healing, makes it less of a bore.

TL/DR - Git gud

Wish List:

Shuffle: Does not draw the same card twice.
Spread: Useable at anytime, keeps card from being redrawn till use.
Main 3 Heals: increased to standard potency.
Regen/Barrier Stance: Allow switching in combat (potency should stay the same).
Collective: Increased potency for both the Regen and Damage reduction as being unable to move is quite a stiff penalty for what it currently does.

I just want to be able to control Spire and Ewer when I don't need one of them.

AST is not a support class. Support class is not a thing. Stop with that. You can't be a support class if you don't even decide which buff you will give your friend.

AST is a healer. That is all.

We need to have atleast 390 Benefict and 640 Benefict 2, if you really don't want us to have the same as WHM.

The cards needs to be reworked.

Combine the MP and PT reduce in one card.

Combine the haste and cooldown reduce buff in one card.

Combine the damage reduction and damage increase in one card.

====> it will already be a lot better, making our unique trait usefull. I'm sorry but drawing the pt reduction 12 times (yes. 12.) is not something that should be ever possible. It is just bad design or buff the cards by 100% if they want to keep it that way (which they should not)

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Everyone was well aware astro wasnt meant to be on par healing with a whm or sch, why do people getting trying that trump card?

Astro is for players that are more skilled. People who have never had any issues keeping people alive. I myself have been laughing at people posting they are struggling to keep their pt alive in new dungeons, I havn't run into that at all. The 5% potency from stance puts your cures almost on par with whm, so maybe you're just bad healers. I mained whm and sch before heavensward, and am aware they trump in raw healing power, even though its not by much. Astro is much more fun to play imo cause you get to play with card buffs while healing, makes it less of a bore.

TL/DR - Git gud

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I'll bite.

I have no issue keeping my tank alive. But explain to me why would any serious FC take an AST over the other two ? I'm waiting.

Also for dps in dungeons ive been using sch stance, putting stoneskin + aldo on tank before pull, then popping combust I/II, aero, then spamming gravity (malefic II for 1-2 mobs). The DoT alone does 480-580 a tic and Im only i130. Not sure it beats sch but I know it beats whm.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

I'll bite.

I have no issue keeping my tank alive. But explain to me why would any serious FC take an AST over the other two ? I'm waiting.

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Even if you were to only focus on healing in a fight, while setting up an extended bole, then using time dilation, you'd have a 45 second 10% dmg reduction for a paticular hard hitting moment in more serious fights. Its hard to say the different things we'll be able to bring to the table without having the fights to test atm. But I dont think people will discount astro so easily.

It looks interesting and fun and probably just fine in dungeons, primals, and sort mode stuff. My biggest concern is for progression content where raw healing and damage reduction is important along with consistency which the randomness of the card draw cannot be relied upon.

At least in the design of coil it would have been an issue for progression but maybe new raid design will be different? (I'm hoping for AST changes than to change raids to accommodate job issues). Time will tell but so far the feedback is inline with my initial theory crafting with my cohealer.

even if you are equal to a scholar in dps, he meanwhile still has a feary out that match your card dps buff and heals every global cooldown.



the cards dont make up for no heal cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Even if you were to only focus on healing in a fight, while setting up an extended bole, then using time dilation, you'd have a 45 second 10% dmg reduction for a paticular hard hitting moment in more serious fights. Its hard to say the different things we'll be able to bring to the table without having the fights to test atm. But I dont think people will discount astro so easily.

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Unfortunately, you just can't count on when you're going to get Bole. AST brings some nice things to the table, but you can't necessarily count on them having what you need when you need it. The mechanics that allow you to draw new cards just don't give you enough control, considering you can get shafted with less than ideal cards over and over again. New raids with Astrologian will be more of "I'll try Astrologian" rather than "I want/need Astrologian," and we can only hope they stand up to the pressure, or they'll be in dire need of buffs. They'll do fine in normal content, but I can't say whether they'll stand up to cutting edge content so readily.

ok bole example, WHM can use his 30% heal buff with 60 sec cooldown and be 3 times as efficient than your bole that would also need 60 eec preperation time (2 cards).

ewer isn't bad on blm at least..

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Originally Posted by Nague

ok bole example, WHM can use his 30% heal buff with 60 sec cooldown and be 3 times as efficient than your bole that would also need 60 eec preperation time (2 cards).

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Lets say 6 abilitys thoughout 45 seconds, each one does 7k dmg, Thats 4200 (probably more likes 10k with auto attacks added in) that costed no mp to mitigate, and all the while Im able to heal at the same time. Divine seal lasts 15 seconds. Fact is you can theorycraft all day long, nothing is going to mean anything until we've spent more time in the coil-like fights for heavensward and see first hand how they handle themselves.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Lets say 6 abilitys thoughout 45 seconds, each one does 7k dmg, Thats 4200 (probably more likes 10k with auto attacks added in) that costed no mp to mitigate, and all the while Im able to heal at the same time. Divine seal lasts 15 seconds. Fact is you can theorycraft all day long, nothing is going to mean anything until we've spent more time in the coil-like fights for heavensward and see first hand how they handle themselves.

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How do you plan on having this card when its needed ?

You act like you will have Bole on demand... youll most likely have something else.

Tell me, how will you constantly get the card that you actually need, when its needed ?

Because draw is on a 30 second time and you can shuffle every other one. 4/5 times I could have the card I wanted 3min into a fight.

So we have been having serious conversations about AST in my guild for forming our raiding teams. The fact is, WHM/SCH is more optimized more regularly than is anything else plus AST. It's just not viable. It can do a lot, but when in combat its locked to one or the other at a gimped potency. So why not just bring a WHM or a SCH instead, because they are locked, but without RNG and without potency being gimped. Really AST is a jack of all traids, master of none, but in raids, with usually just two heals, you need someone to do one job and to do it at max potency. That is not AST. They need to do something or it wont get a raid spot. I can't think of a raid group right now that'll consider bringing one for bleeding edge content.

In addition I feel sorry for peeps because its so obvious that a stigma exists in high level dungeons already with AST. Many times when one queus up, someone leaves saying they'd rather do their long list of stuff than to waist time being healed by AST, even before pulling a single mob. This is very common. Stigmas rarely exist without reason, similar to that of WAR vs PAL back in the day. I hope the devs pay attention to this because in a hand full of weeks Alexander savage will be out and those that pushed AST to 60 quite possibly could be SOL until they get one of the other classes up to 60.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Because draw is on a 30 second time and you can shuffle every other one. 4/5 times I could have the card I wanted 3min into a fight.

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Have you drawn cards ?

Ive drawn 10-15 cards before i got Bole.

I drew 6x Arrow in a row... then drew 4x Spear followed by 2x Spire.
Your going to spend 3min trying to get that one card.. that will most likely last a whole 15 seconds at most if you save it for later ?
What if you dont get it at the right time ?

Your telling me thats reliable ?


AST...
Hey guys!.. in 4-5 draws i could have Bole for when we get that spike damage..... it may take me 3 min to get that DPS incease we need or that Tank buff! ITS ALL GOOD!.
Party.. What happened ?
AST..Eh i got Spear. Maybe next time..
Party... how long are those buffs ?
AST.. About 15 seconds..
Party.. Lets go get a SCH/WHM


SCH.. Dps buff ? i got this.. ill click my 1 button when i please.

WHM.. Yep i got my cooldowns.. i dont have to RNG for success.

Just parsed the aery, running it for the first time in i130 gear, and only 55 (think 56 is cap in there). Parsed 100 dps 146k dmg, and thats not including dmg my cards added to the group. Had a Drk for tank and he did 190 dps. I dont think thats bad at all, also had no issues healing.

I have had no one try to leave a dungeon when I joined as an astro lol, havn't heard anything about that either. Xenohart your fc is just close minded and judging a job before alexander is even out... Keep in mind people, i'd say 70% of ffxiv's healers suck at healing, as any healer. Stack that with all the new players trying out astro when they dont even main a healer job. Of course you are going to see weak performance.

In harder content you do not need top potency, and with gear it gets to the point that its too easy to heal as whm/sch, so why wouldnt astro have a spot? The lower potency is being extremely exagerated, the cures are hardly different.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Just parsed the aery, running it for the first time in i130 gear, and only 55 (think 56 is cap in there). Parsed 100 dps 146k dmg, and thats not including dmg my cards added to the group. Had a Drk for tank and he did 190 dps. I dont think thats bad at all, also had no issues healing.

I have had no one try to leave a dungeon when I joined as an astro lol, havn't heard anything about that either. Xenohart your fc is just close minded and judging a job before alexander is even out... Keep in mind people, i'd say 70% of ffxiv's healers suck at healing, as any healer. Stack that with all the new players trying out astro when they dont even main a healer job. Of course you are going to see weak performance.

In harder content you do not need top potency, and with gear it gets to the point that its too easy to heal as whm/sch, so why wouldnt astro have a spot? The lower potency is being extremely exagerated, the cures are hardly different.

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The base cures are fine. They are not far off, you are correct. I am Happy with where the cure potency/MP cost is at right now.
The real issue to me is the card system has trouble, it is way to RNG for no reward

You are running Dungeons, anyone can heal a dungeon, i dont think many are sayign AST cant handle a dungeon. The issue will be when progression of harder content is here.

If you enjoy the class, i am happy for you. Thats what the game is about. What these threads are about.. , is the class as good as the others ? How do they match up ? There is nothing wrong with seeing flaws in a class.

instead of this super bole, i just pop sacred ground which is 30 sec cooldown and AE.
Oh and the chance for you to draw bole is about the same as my sacred ground giving me another free ae heal.

Again, where is this utility that justifies the weak healing capabilities?

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Originally Posted by Kiaris

You are running Dungeons, anyone can heal a dungeon, i dont think many are sayign AST cant handle a dungeon. The issue will be when progression of harder content is here.

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Well multiple times in this thread people have been saying healing dungeons was much more difficult, and the other dude just said people are outright leaving que's cause they see an astro.

Cards need some fixing, getting the same card 6x when you have no use for it, is starting to be a pain. In the last 3 hours of healing as a AST, I have never seen a Bole card. The healing potency needs to be brought to the same level as WHM and SCH. The AST is not a support class, we do not have a spot for a pure support class in this game. Yoshida himself said, no support role in FFXIV just, because Bard/Machinist and AST can buff other players, does not mean that they are pure support classes.

The AST is supposed to be able to heal 4 man on its own and to be able to rival the SCH and WHM when doing a 8 man, why else would someone take a AST when SCH has more reliable buffs and can heal better and WHM has more healing and is a master in AOE healing? If SE does not fix this, we will see AST being denied from raids, kicked from dungeons and alot of players benching their class. I do not want this to happen, I love the Star Globe, I love the skills and the gameplay, but the potency and the cards needs alot of fixing and honestly, I am suprised the in-house beta testers of SE have not noticed this.

When there will be progress in alexander, mistakes will be made, people will want reliable heals, heals that can fix and carry mistakes, not heals that can work if you play perfectly.. EDIT: by you i mean whole group, not a healer by himself

To be honest, I just have this feeling they purposely nerfed the new jobs to prevent everyone rerolling to it and keep a good balance between the jobs population. Now the thing is... when will they buff them ?

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I am suprised the in-house beta testers of SE have not noticed this.

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This^^ I see no justification for ast to have less healing potency than a whm/sch.

I just do not see how scholar can get away with its healing potency then - if anything scholar is a jack of all trade and a master of all trades. they have barrier heals which works well with their fairy - an ast in nocturnal does not have that extra healing not to mention that crit adlo is an amazing bonus for sch. They get free heals from their pet, aetherflow keeps mp high, selene can act as support (arguably more efficiently than ast), they have damage mitigation skills (eye for an eye, virus, sacred soil) AND they can dps pretty well (cross class cleric stance and aero).

If ast could even get half of the utility/ versatility of scholar then I would say the reduced potency is justified. Aspected benefic is instant, which is nice, so you can be more "mobile" than most healers - then again a scholar can just position their fairy too. (edit: lustrate is also instant, but lets not even go there) It seems like pets now get the benefit of food? (crit/det food for fairy? if eos scores a crit heal she has 25% chance of increasing scholars casting speed/ why cant ast have rng like this lol)

Another thing I notice is that people talk about waiting till 60 to see if it gets better - with the way skills and levels are synced, ast should not just be viable at end game, but viable across old and new content. I have no doubt that ast can do all content - but right now its "skin and bones" compared to the other healers. If ast is suppose to be a technical healer... then there should be more reward for people that have the skill to play it - right now ast is high risk low reward where it should be high risk high reward.

edit: sch on other hand is low risk high reward, because your fairy alleviates some of the pressure/ mistakes made.

edit: right now ast feels like a scholar without their pet. In fact sch, without their pet, may have some advantages because of aetherflow and damage mitigation skills.

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Originally Posted by Kiaris

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Pretty sure part of being AST is learning to adapt and deal with the cards you draw. Don't sit there and rely on one popping up, use what you have and use what you get. I'm a bad and only level 48 right now, but I honestly don't have a problem with anything the AST does. I don't always get a card I want, but I don't fret and worry about not getting a specific one.