Astrologian Speculations! How will it fit in?

From the informations we actually got, I have got fear, that AST is just similar to WHM and SCH divided by the stance.

I really hope its more unique than this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

Also be use the job starts at 30, will they be unable to lvl sync below 30? All their skills they 'start with' would need base levels below 30 then. Also I am assuming they toss in weapons for the 3 new classes into dungeons and crafting, other wise that would suck.

---

Just to talk about this point directly, I anticipate AST to have a normal "skill tree" like a class would. While they start at level 30, their skills and abilities will probably have a "level" associated with it. I anticipate their Cure-type spell to be a level 6 or lower ability so they can facilitate a healing role in any content (including level syncing to 6 in a starter zone).

To me, I feel the level 30 design was S-E's way of saying "Well, we don't like how the SCH/SMN dual job panned out, so instead we'll make a separate job that begins at level 30, but for all intents and purposes it's a branch from Conjurer with it's own skill tree associated with it". In fact, despite the fact it has been mentioned that all you need is a level 30 class to unlock all the new jobs, it woudln't surprise me if AST is locked behind having at least 30 CNJ leveled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KarstenS

From the informations we actually got, I have got fear, that AST is just similar to WHM and SCH divided by the stance.

I really hope its more unique than this.

---

They also have cards which everyone is assuming to be a buff-type mechanic to their toolkit. If I were to guess, I would think AST would have less potent healing when in heal stance and less potent shielding in shield stance.

We'll see as more information is released.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

In fact, despite the fact it has been mentioned that all you need is a level 30 class to unlock all the new jobs, it woudln't surprise me if AST is locked behind having at least 30 CNJ leveled.

.

---

I really hope hey have something like this because as cool as that sounds to have these classes you can jump into no matter what classes you have leveled, it seems very bad idea to me to put a healer/tank available at midrange to someone who never played that role before. If you didn't level it that far its even less likely you know what you are doing. Heck I get level 40somethings that don't know how their skills work in dungeons all the time (sad since all you really need to do is read), and they theoretically have been playing it up from lvl 1.

In short, letting someone who has not played a healer at all before jump into one 9or a tank in the case of dark knight) sounds like a recipe for fail.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

In short, letting someone who has not played a healer at all before jump into one 9or a tank in the case of dark knight) sounds like a recipe for fail.

---

It should probably be mentioned that an example of this already exists in the game which is Scholar, a healer which requires you to level a DPS class up until level 30, then suddenly shifts roles when equipped with the Scholar soul crystal. But there are a few noteworthy points to mention that help ease into that transition such as Arcanist learning Physick as early as level 4 and Resurrection at level 22. Even Sustain somewhat helps with keeping an eye on the HP of someone other than themselves. Should an Arcanist learn nothing from those abilities, there is still the Scholar hat trick that is Eos. At low levels she can practically do all the work for you so even totally inexperienced healers can still get coaxed into the role. Oh and I complete forgot until now, also need Conjurer at level 15 to unlock Scholar so there's that.

Will the new jobs have any kind of required experience in their given role before starting at level 30? So far nothing has been said.

I think that this will be a HoT class. I personally would love to see a class that can switch between a DPS mode and a Healing mode, the DPS mode allows fluff hots per dmg output and the ability to debuff, while the healing classes will have casted HoTs.

Usually three healers are split between shielding, AoE, and HoTs with all having good capability to single target heal.

Whatever it does, I have all the Card Captor Sakura phrases ready for when I'll pull out my looking orb for the first time as an Astrolosomething. SHOURAI XD I don't care how much hate I will get for my macros, from the looks of it, this job is calling for cheezy macros :D:D:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khalette

I think that this will be a HoT class. I personally would love to see a class that can switch between a DPS mode and a Healing mode, the DPS mode allows fluff hots per dmg output and the ability to debuff, while the healing classes will have casted HoTs.

Usually three healers are split between shielding, AoE, and HoTs with all having good capability to single target heal.

---

but the whm already has some nice HoTs AND aoe heal c.c,,

SE better be prepared for a lot of threads saying tht AST has an identity crisis.
Its like every aspect of a healer is taken either by whm or sch.
Bard already covers the other buffs. Whms have the aoe/ burst heals. Schs have the shields, pets and dots covered. So what does that leave ast?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

SE better be prepared for a lot of threads saying tht AST has an identity crisis.
Its like every aspect of a healer is taken either by whm or sch.
Bard already covers the other buffs. Whms have the aoe/ burst heals. Schs have the shields, pets and dots covered. So what does that leave ast?

---

Healing and mitigation aside, there is still room for a true buffing class. Bards in this game don't really qualify as such.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

Healing and mitigation aside, there is still room for a true buffing class. Bards in this game don't really qualify as such.

---

Then whats the point of bringing a bard then if that happens.
Also i thought yoshi was going to change bard ( so chances r it'll be either a hit or miss scenario )
Why bring X when Y can do it better and provide some dps etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tint

but the whm already has some nice HoTs AND aoe heal c.c,,

---

I agree, but I'm talking about 2-3 HoTs instead of one. One that can be "released" and heal for full for emergency situations. A rolling, stacking HoT, and a casted single target light heal that adds a HoT. There's just room to wiggle, and you're right, WHM has amazing AoE's -- so if their one HoT spell doesn't step up as much as other healing spells, they'll take the AoE spot, while SCH will stick with shield stereotype, and AST becomes the HoT healer.

Just my thoughts, and I think it'll make a nice trilogy to an already great duo.

I also think there's a way to make the Esuna an interesting class type:
SCH - Removes all debuffs on one target 30 second cd
WHM - Removes one debuff from each person in party 1 min cd
AST - Removes a debuff every 5 seconds for 30 seconds, 1.5 min cd

Considering the new lore about how Astros can alter fate, maybe they will give the party evasion buffs? It's hard to think of something else that mechanically reflects the idea of "this hit wasn't destined to kill you".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Then whats the point of bringing a bard then if that happens.
Also i thought yoshi was going to change bard ( so chances r it'll be either a hit or miss scenario )
Why bring X when Y can do it better and provide some dps etc.

---

Because you give them buffs that BRDs don't have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacost

Considering the new lore about how Astros can alter fate, maybe they will give the party evasion buffs? It's hard to think of something else that mechanically reflects the idea of "this hit wasn't destined to kill you".

---

When I look how useless parry is in FCoB, that would be not a good idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jacost

Considering the new lore about how Astros can alter fate, maybe they will give the party evasion buffs? It's hard to think of something else that mechanically reflects the idea of "this hit wasn't destined to kill you".

---

Shields would have been the best thing for Astros regarding that lore but Scholars have shields...

I don't know what other types of healing are there besides the usual ones like:

* HoT-Healer
* Shield-Healer
* AoE-Healer
* ST-Healer

Whitemage has AoE, ST and Hots, Scholar has Shields - not that much left for Astro right now.

the whm has shields too ^^ nobody seems to notice that, probably because it's always there - but i'm pretty sure you will miss the 15% mdef buff from whm >.>

If its anything like Ace from Final Fantasy type-0 I'm max leveling it and never using it again. Had enough of trying to pull out a heal card and wind up with an attack card just to die.:(

I'm kinda surprised how active this thread got. :P

I've editted the first post with additional information found on the FFXIV Wiki.

what about cleric stance? when astrologican doesn't need any base classes, will he have an own damage stance? or will he need the whm crosskill too? for playing scholar you need whm on lvl 15, so you will have cleric stance anyway.

otherwise... i'm sure he will get the skills from whm. but which is the other class he will get skills from? cleric stance, protect, stoneskin - swiftcast, surecast - eye for an eye, virus.... hope whm + blm :x

buuuut: if you have the heal stance in wich the heals are heals and a shield stance in wich the heals are shieds. what will the heals be in cleric stance?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tint

stuff

---

I'm curious as well. Without CS an AST won't be as useful for DPSing or soloing as the other two healers which would be pretty bad. And without Swiftcast they would be so gimped... It's going to be interesting so see what happens with Crossclass skills. I'm wondering if they are going to change it to 3 classes that every ob can crossclass with or something. Because AST may need some ACN spells as well (virus, e4e).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I'm curious as well. Without CS an AST won't be as useful for DPSing or soloing as the other two healers which would be pretty bad. And without Swiftcast they would be so gimped... It's going to be interesting so see what happens with Crossclass skills. I'm wondering if they are going to change it to 3 classes that every ob can crossclass with or something. Because AST may need some ACN spells as well (virus, e4e).

---

Just emphasis on the bolded part, you can make the argument that AST card buffs indirectly providing DPS to groups via their buff mechanics. Say a SCH or WHM can provide 200 DPS in any normal boss fight; AST buffs would need to be able to generate a comparable number to that 200 DPS via their buffs thus negating the need for them to have CS in a party setting. Of course this is its own can of worms for balancing - will AST buffs be single target only? Area effect? Aura around the AST? Balanced for 4-man or 8-man parties? etc. And of course this changes dramatically in a solo setting as well.

They will probably get there own version of protect (Shell)but it will be the opposite of WHM pro shell trait. That means sch will probably get to cross class it and get to use protect for physical and shell for magic.

As for the shields, I dont think there will be any healing on the shields just a straight-up shield to absorb damage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

buff

---

Yeah I thought about too. But then the whole random factor with cards... CS is reliable. A buff isn't. Not really. Especially if it only lasts a certain amount of time. The more I look at it this way the more I don't really like it. It would be so incredibly hard to balance, especially when you add in solo play. You don't want it to be over powered, but you also don't want it to be too weak. CS, to me, is perfect. It has no flaws in any way. So to try and make something similar but completely different will be really hard for SE to pull off. That's my thoughts on it anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Yeah I thought about too. But then the whole random factor with cards... CS is reliable. A buff isn't. Not really. Especially if it only lasts a certain amount of time. The more I look at it this way the more I don't really like it. It would be so incredibly hard to balance, especially when you add in solo play. You don't want it to be over powered, but you also don't want it to be too weak. CS, to me, is perfect. It has no flaws in any way. So to try and make something similar but completely different will be really hard for SE to pull off. That's my thoughts on it anyway.

---

Indeed, that's why I'm looking forward to seeing what will be done. If S-E gives AST the right tools, they'll be able to get a high uptime of popular buffs like Corsairs were able to in XI. It'll be a hard thing to balance, but I imagine it'll keep the AST quite busy with this and healing duties.

Can't wait to see the move list released.

Speculation about AST and Cleric Stance isn't very useful at this point since we have no idea whether or not it will be cross-class for them, if they will have a native version of it, or if they will even need it. For all we know, the devs might have coded AST's damaging abilities to scale directly off of MND and linked them to the barrier stance to limit simultaneous healing and DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by melflomil

They will probably get there own version of protect (Shell)but it will be the opposite of WHM pro shell trait. That means sch will probably get to cross class it and get to use protect for physical and shell for magic.

As for the shields, I dont think there will be any healing on the shields just a straight-up shield to absorb damage

---

THIS will make the whm useless. and the sch already has 2 cross classes.

what happens when you only have a shield without heal can you see at the stoneskin. while you cast stoneskin the tank gets damage. so tank is at 80% life + shield (for 18%) = useless. so the shield have to be an instant cast. but that will be too overpowered or with long cd. i don't think you go in shieldstance to use a (one) shield wich has a long cd...

Call me overly optimistic, but I'm fairly certain that White Mages have more than Proshell going for them. <.<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

Speculation about AST and Cleric Stance isn't very useful at this point

---

I don't really see it that way. I don't see us talking about it as "useful", but more a way to spark conversation among healers to discuss what they would like to see or what the think SE may do. It's purely speculation, which is the whole point of the thread. Not much is concrete at this point in time, so all we can really do is speculate and discuss what the possibilities are. I get what you are saying though.

What skills do you think we are seeing in the new trailer? I think it looked like she was throwing cards at enemies.

probably he makes fixed damage that only depends on the weapon stats, like guns in FF12. so no more stance-dance^^ uh, that would be great. of course, the damage have to be lower than whm/sch in cleric stance for balancing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tint

probably he makes fixed damage that only depends on the weapon stats, like guns in FF12. so no more stance-dance^^ uh, that would be great. of course, the damage have to be lower than whm/sch in cleric stance for balancing.

---

Emphasis on the bolded part.

Not necessarily. WHM and SCH DPS in different ways, whereas the SCH has the ability to swap to cleric stance, throw out their DoTs (35, 35, 40 potency), and swap back, the WHM only has 2 DoTs (25 and 40 potency), most of their damage comes from other more direct sources (Stone II, Holy, looking at you). If the AST would have fixed damage, it would really depend on A: Can it be balanced, and B: would it require a certain stance.

I think I would prefer the AST Buffs to give party DPS a comparable number increase to a different healer running cleric stance.

Sure WHMs have "shields", but they work different. They are more of a permanent -dmg buff with a nice "HP-boos" (=the amount of HP absorbed). They are not the usual shields imho.

I'm pretty sure there will be Cross Class for the AST. I'm sure it'll have Conjurer and Thaumaturge, as Eye for an Eye and Virus aren't as important when you consider the WHM, BLM, SCH and SMN already has them. Cleric Stance as it stands right now is very important on Healers, it helps us solo, lets us deal reliable damage. On the other hand, I feel healing without Protect would feel weird for most healers as it makes everyone take a bit less damage, and it's considered a "requirement". On that note, AST may have a passive that causes Mind to increase their damage instead of Intellect, they may also have some buff that adds damage reduction similar to Protect. So of the Conjurer and Arcanist, I can very easily see neither of them being required. But that Swiftcast, would be greatly missed.

For those discussing the different stances, I imagine we'll have our base heal like Cure which isn't effected by the Stance we've chosen, and we'll actually only have like 3-4 abilities that change depending on the Stance. One will be a big heal like Cure II/Adlo. In Shield Stance some of the heal is pulled back to give us a shield component, in the Heal Stance it heals along the same lines of Cure II. Then we'll have our AoE Heal, one stance will be like Medica and the other will be like Succor. I think we'll have a Regen effect somewhere when in Heal Stance, and if we're in Shield stance it'll actually give a stacking shield. (1k Heal over 15seconds, or a 1k Shield over 15 seconds for example) This Shield and the AoE Shield could stack, and they'd stack with the Scholar Shields as well. Since they're able to alter fate, I could see this Regen effect just healing Shields over time if it isn't broken off of them, but that could also be OP.

The important thing to remember is that SE said there's a hefty cooldown on changing Stances, it's not like Cleric Stance. So I imagine we wont be able to change much in combat, if at all. So both roles will need to be able to sustain their party alone in most fights. The Strength I can forsee with the AST is that it can fill the role of the SCH or the WHM to fit the group. WHM will have the bigger heals and the stronger HoT, while SCH will have the shields with the Fairy for healing back up. Because of this, I see Healing stance being very similar to WHM, and Shield stance being maybe a stronger Shield version of the Scholar but lacking the fairy healing to help, or some other variation.

With Cleric Stance, I imagine it wont count as one of the Stances the AST uses, so you can have Cleric Stance up to DPS while in your initial stance and that wont change. I'm more excited at the way the Cooldowns and damage of the AST will work. No matter how we spin it, it'll have the usual Light Heal, Heavy Heal, AoE that the other healers have. With a spell or two that matches the overall Job better (ie. Regen, Cure III, Lustrate). But what cooldowns will it bring to the table? Scholar has a Virus and Eye for an Eye to lower the damage enemies deal. White Mage has Benediction to just give you back all your health. Will AST get an ability to stop you from dying similar to Arise/Re-Raise? If they get a HoT focus like some people thought, will they get a cooldown to make you take a lot more Healing over Time to make EoS and White Mage heal more as well? There's lots of healing options they can have in that regard, but as a whole they'll still have the 1-2-3 ability that lets them heal, anything after that is flavour.

For DPS, will they be Burst based, will they use DoTs, or maybe they'll channel their offensive spells at the enemy and use that Fire Attack from the Benchmark as a movement ability. It's a shame they don't tell us more about the Job, or leak some of their abilities so people can actually discuss it. ><;

CD thought. so WHM has cds that buff themselves to pump out more heals....

What if AST has a 5 min cd or something nuts, that gives the benefit of both stances for a short time?!

OK I honestly don't expect this, but it was a thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexanderThorolund

What skills do you think we are seeing in the new trailer? I think it looked like she was throwing cards at enemies.

---

I thought I saw Grand Cross used on that mutant coeurl.

Honestly, I do not find it interesting at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

CD thought. so WHM has cds that buff themselves to pump out more heals....

What if AST has a 5 min cd or something nuts, that gives the benefit of both stances for a short time?!

OK I honestly don't expect this, but it was a thought.

---

Kind of funny because that actually sounds a lot like Tabula Rasa which was the 2-hour (now 1-hour) ability for Scholar in FFXI. Some of the current level 50 skills (or level 2 in the case of Rogue) have similar functions to the 2-hour abilities of jobs from FFXI, though with weaker effects and a significantly shorter cooldown. It's actually not that crazy of an idea, but I'm not sure if the benefit would be as impactful as it sounds. Hard to say without seeing a list of skills with info on how their effects change with each stance. It could easily still work as an ability, though.

Food for thought~ Selene is reperesent of the night isn't she (uses haste spells)? Well in Bravely Second Astrologians use "Moon Magic" to which I found these: :3

-Level 1 Moon Magic: "Physical up" "Magic Up"
-Level 2 Moon Magic: "Physical Guard" "Magic Guard"
-Level 3 Moon Magic: "Speed up" "Element Mirror"

Now this isn't to say "Omg these spells are in" not at all, I just think it's curious Selene is also support based spells and in lore is of the night.

On the topic of Bravely Second's Astrologer, I went and found some descriptions for how the job plays in that game. While it is a different game entirely I still consider it interesting since previously the job has barely existed in the Final Fantasy series. Aside from what we've been told and a few seconds of benchmark footage with animations we can't comprehend there isn't much else to draw speculation from.

Quote:

---

The Astrologer is another new job in Bravely Second, and it focuses on “Moon Magic” that helps the party with supports such as attack and defense increases. In the demo, they don’t learn any offensive magic, so they were used as pure buffers.

---

Quote:

---

Astrologers come loaded with buffs for things like offense, defense, and elemental affinities and are also capable of raising success rates for chance-based abilities, making them another job that’s effective at lending out support during skirmishes.

---

It has been confirmed that Astrologian will utilize their celestial deck for the purpose of buffing the party, but to what extent has yet to be clarified. Many seem to suspect that its capabilities will exceed that of Scholar and with buffing being the primary specialization for Astrologer it's likely there will be a parallel.

I'm extremely anxious to learn more about how Astrologian will utilize their celestial deck. With it being such a supposed core aspect of the job they have hardly given us any information.

Raising % chances? Maybe AST will be able to make other classes procs pop more often...

That would probably be OP, on second thought.