Dragoon buffs and Ninja nerfs coming Dec 9th in patch 2.45

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atreides

The nerf was still unnecessary concidering there is a class that has always been topping ST DPS and still remains supreme while getting away untouched.

---

Oh, I completely agree. I don't at all think the NIN nerf was needed. DRG buff is okay, NIN nerf seems a bit silly to me. But it appears to be minor enough to still keep me playing Ninja, could have been worse. After all the disappointments SE has thrown my way lately, this is harmless.

It would be interesting if the shuriken ninjutsu (single mudra) would be considered physical and not be affected by the kiss nerf. That would give raiton competition in terms of which high potency ninjutsu to use.

Fuma Shuriken: 240 + 20% = 288pot, with the slashing debuff about 316.8potency.
Raiton: 360 potency, with foe 396 potency, with bv foe 432 potency.

Unbuffed Raiton is still stronger than Fuma Shuiken.

Raiton is still superior.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atreides

I was actually amazed by how balanced Ninjas where, they have nice burst and good sustained damage while being slightly behind the monk in ST.

---

In Turn 8, by a little bit, yes. However once RNG turns/mechanics start causing positional misses and jumps cause GL drops NIN overtakes MNK by a bit.

And if you try saying MNK always has 100% up time on bosses or NIN is hurt just as much by disconnects as MNK I'll wish I could boop you with a hammer through the internet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tilgung

In Turn 8, by a little bit, yes. However once RNG turns/mechanics start causing positional misses and jumps cause GL drops NIN overtakes MNK by a bit.

---

This may be true for turns like t9 but in the final Coils this isn't really the case at all. It's very Monk friendly.
I'm not calling for nerfs either, Monk is in a good spot SE should just stop with their mindset that monks are harder to play and deserve their spot as top DPS, this just isn't the case, monks are all about muscle memory.
This is coming from someone who has cleared content with monk since release.

I'm 95% sure "harder" means "shafted by mechanics the hardest" and they are. Disconnects are pretty crippling for MNK. While RNG turns are more painful for DRG, MNK certainly doesn't enjoy those either. And it only take a few for NIN to even out or overtake MNK over the course of a fight.

The change that I would really like to see for DRG to adjust DoT would be a debuff that increases all DoT effects applied by 10% for 30 sec tied to disembowel. Boom, raid utility problem fixed. (Probably OP, though)

I'm pretty sure they already mentioned the Drg buff, in the live letter translation at least..

"Specifically, “Heavy Thrust” buff will no longer need positional to be applied, recast timers and animation locks will be reduced further. These changes are coming in 2.45."

Sounds like you already have your buff info released. I'm surprised that a lot of people actually missed this? (There could be more I suppose, or this translation could be wrong..)

I know, but the Live Letter also mentions a change to the potency of DRG's DoTs.

Could you quote that part for me? I seem to have missed that part but I can't find it, sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keisatsu

Could you quote that part for me? I seem to have missed that part but I can't find it, sorry.

---

Question/Answer #2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tilgung

Question/Answer #2.

---

Thank you kindly.

So where did that Dragoon go who claimed to sustain 520+ DPS with his Nexus?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grekumah

Kiss of the Wasp (Increases damage dealt → Increases physical damage dealt)
Kiss of the Viper (Increases damage dealt → Increases physical damage dealt)

---

Good changes. i've just a question bumping in my head.
If Ninjutsu are Non-physical damage, I have to assume they are magical? or somenthing else?
Is important on stuff like T4 soldier/knight(yeah useless now, but may be they will be back in the future) and with the Foe's requiem buff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mattiux

Good changes. i've just a question bumping in my head.
If Ninjutsu are Non-physical damage, I have to assume they are magical? or somenthing else?
Is important on stuff like T4 soldier/knight(yeah useless now, but may be they will be back in the future) and with the Foe's requiem buff

---

Katon, Raiton, Doton, and Suiton all deal magical damage when used, and should be affected by Foe Requiem's magic debuff and the T4 soldier/knight shields. This also means that they are not slashing attacks; Dancing Edge and Storm's Eye do not affect them.

Fuma Shuriken is a physical slashing attack to my knowledge, which means that it is not affected by those buffs/debuffs but should continue to be affected by your Poison buff and Dancing Edge/Storm's Eye debuff as a result.

(For inquisitive readers getting Ideas about changing their 'Jutsu rotation: Note that this still doesn't bring it above Raiton's net potency even after the nerf, so you should still use Raiton for single-target damage ninjutsu cd's.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krr

snip

---

Understood.
Thank you ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daweism

Here 522 DPS iLevel 114 + Nexus, 4:40 parse

---

What in the heck... what is your rotation...?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zankes

Snip

---

I had a 8:30 parse last week with same gear and it hovered around 510 DPS, a lot has to do with crit % RNG though. Same 4 minute-ish parse I can do anywhere from 495 to 525 depending on crit RNG, had to try a few times to get a 520+ one, but definitely possible and sustainable. @ 504 Crit is varies from 15% to almost 30%, I don't even know. T_T

I have not parsed T8 since the patch but prior to echo I did about 440 in T8 while handling brain jacked and homing missle mechanics with 1 tower proc. Average about 450 DPS on a decently clean T10 and T11 kills. Did a few T9 kills last night was parsed at 470 DPS and another person said it was 440 DPS.

I just focus on absolutely no downtime on GCDs and CD moves, also I prefer to use target lock as often as I can to avoid not doing auto-attacks when dodging in any direction. That's one thing I notice many melee don't do that is a HUGE DPS increase after they started doing so. If you're facing the boss and u turn past 45 degrees when you attempt to dodge or get a positional, past 45 degrees facing away you no longer auto attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunncan

Yeah, I wish all fights were like dummies :P

Dummies are by no means a trust way to see if a job is good or not in Raid enviroment or compare the balance between jobs. It's there for you to train your rotations and gears, no more.

Specially true for Dragoons, wich one of the most dps nerf is fight movement requeriments, wich you "can't" simulate on a dummie.

Looking forward to the buffs. Personally, I was hoping for something like MNK combos (not losing the bonus, only potency, when miss the target side) and a fix on Jumps animations.

---

actually you can simulate mechanics, with imagination, a stopwatch(or your own counting from a given fights memory) and running from a dummie(pretending you cant hit the target), though dots numbers have to be altered to figure out, your parse will show true numbers, easiest way is to watch a fight on your phone/tab and do all the same moves and dodging along with the video

Aeolian Edge (TP cost 50 → 60)
Shadow Fang (TP cost 60 → 70)

Kiss of the Wasp (Increases damage dealt → Increases physical damage dealt)
Kiss of the Viper (Increases damage dealt → Increases physical damage dealt)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I am so disappointed... and upset. Kiss of Viper and Wasp with Ninjutsu skills now give less damage against enemies. But they give Auto-attack more damage against them?

That is a big hurt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Megaius

Aeolian Edge (TP cost 50 → 60)
Shadow Fang (TP cost 60 → 70)

Kiss of the Wasp (Increases damage dealt → Increases physical damage dealt)
Kiss of the Viper (Increases damage dealt → Increases physical damage dealt)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I am so disappointed... and upset. Kiss of Viper and Wasp with Ninjutsu skills now give less damage against enemies. But they give Auto-attack more damage against them?

That is a big hurt.

---

I can't tell if you're joking or not...

it really isn't that big of a deal imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunncan

I'm not interested in your rotation or anything like that, but I really would like to see that table expanded, specially to know how much from that DPS came from MS, wich you said you usually use. Impressive numbers anyway.

---

In 4 mins he woulda been able to use it what, 3 times at most? Mine usually hit for around 500 damage.. Say one crits and subtract 1750 damage, still 516 dps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Megaius

Now I am so disappointed... and upset. Kiss of Viper and Wasp with Ninjutsu skills now give less damage against enemies. But they give Auto-attack more damage against them?

That is a big hurt.

---

No, they don't buff auto attacks with the poisons, they changed it so that your Jutsus (cept for Shuriken) aren't affected by it, so yeah it does hurt our AoE the most and our ST a little bit.
The TP nerf hurts the people with a good latency the most, so EU Ninjas aren't that affected since our mudras are sluggish as f***.
The announced EU servers can't come quick enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

In 4 mins he woulda been able to use it what, 3 times at most? Mine usually hit for around 500 damage.. Say one crits and subtract 1750 damage, still 516 dps

---

With BFB up they crit over 1000! I wasn't the one with the parser, wish PS4 had add-ons. :(

Lol, and that other thread: Nin TP Increase: Too Much? - Once Dragoon buffs are revealed I plan on making a thread that says: Dragoon DPS Increase: Too Little? haha, I'm willing to be it'll be a 3-5% DPS boost, which is not enough to measure up to Ninjas and Monks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunncan

I'm not interested in your rotation or anything like that, but I really would like to see that table expanded, specially to know how much from that DPS came from MS, wich you said you usually use. Impressive numbers anyway.

---

I'm interested to see the details of that parse as well, as I'm not quite buying it. Can your FC mate import said parse, expand the encounter and click on your name (or your outgoing damage), so we see your crit% and min and max hits? 520 DPS is like 40-50 DPS higher than what is to be expected of a iLvl115 weapon, so providing details would be nice. Or I'll just drop by on your server and parse for myself.

Quote:

---

... When ninjas participate in content, in order to utilize their ninjutsu they are executing their weapon skills at a lower frequency compared to monk and dragoon. When continuously attacking for the same duration of time, the amount of TP consumed by ninja is lower than that consumed by monk and dragoon...

---

i am sorry, but DRG TP consumption is very low. aside from using AoE's. NIN's TP usage is actually higher. that is, when he is using Huton. and then MNK's have the highest TP consumption. also ninjutsu can be executed during the GCD. and can be finished before the GCD is finished. someone has obviously never played NIN.

in any case, i am not saying that the changes aren't warranted. there indeed should be some adjustments. and i am sure they will handle it well. cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KariArisu

Still not sure why NIN needed a nerf. MNK is still the best DPS in the game by far and nobody is whining about that.

---

THIS! So much THIS!

MNK is STILL proven top DPS so why the f**k do NIN deserve to get a DPS decrease even when MNK is still hitting the highest DPS ceiling?!

I switched from my main DRG to become a main NIN because of how good the NIN was technical-wise and the fact it out-DPS's my DRG (w/ DRG Nexus) so I may as well just go back to DRG then if it turns out DRG is going to out-DPS a NIN in 2.45....

I WILL agree that the TP cost needed adjusting since Ninjutsu doesn't cost any but to remove ALL damage buffs from the Ninjutsu attacks themselves is BS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

i am sorry, but DRG TP consumption is very low. aside from using AoE's. NIN's TP usage is actually higher. that is, when he is using Huton. and then MNK's have the highest TP consumption. also ninjutsu can be executed during the GCD.

---

lol
/10char

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

but to remove ALL damage buffs from the Ninjutsu attacks themselves is BS.

---

Blood for Blood, Internal Release and Requiem still work on Ninjutsu. Poison's were removed and Slashing Debuff didn't apply in the first place. Chill out and pay attention to what's happening.

MNK's DPS dominance over NIN was by an pretty small margin made up for by RNG turns/mechanics and Trick Attacks debuff. Anyone claiming otherwise raids with crappy NIN's or only looks at dummy parses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tilgung

MNK's DPS dominance over NIN was by an pretty small margin made up for by RNG turns/mechanics and Trick Attacks debuff. Anyone claiming otherwise raids with crappy NIN's or only looks at dummy parses.

---

And that is why I main'd NIN to keep snapping at the heels of fellow MNK's, but noooo can't have MNK's contested in the DPS race now can we, let's just widen that 'small margin'.

Fact of the matter is gear-for-gear a great MNK still out-parses a great NIN, if said NIN was pulling further ahead like say 5% more DPS than said MNK then I would understand, but NIN as it stands now is still behind MNK, hence why these reduced DPS changes to NIN are completely unnneccesary except for the TP cost increases.

Considering how hard MNK is shafted by RNG turns/mechanics compared to NIN? I think you'll be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vodomir

I'm interested to see the details of that parse as well, as I'm not quite buying it. Can your FC mate import said parse, expand the encounter and click on your name (or your outgoing damage), so we see your crit% and min and max hits? 520 DPS is like 40-50 DPS higher than what is to be expected of a iLvl115 weapon, so providing details would be nice. Or I'll just drop by on your server and parse for myself.

---

The crit was almost 30% to achieve those numbers, had to give it a few runs to hit 520+, if you averaged out my attempts it would probably be around 510ish DPS, the lows being just under 500, highs just over 520 as u can see. And max full thrust was 1800 I think on that parse. Don't forget mercy strokes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeromat

lol
/10char

---

lolwut? i only speak from what little experience i have. but i have never once needed to use Invigorate as a DRG, aside from using AoE's. as a NIN i usually need to use about either half way or 3 quarters of the way through a boss encounter. as a MNK... well they eat through TP like candy. DRG doesn't have high TP consumption.

Gotta be trolling. Invigorate is very much necessary on Dragoons. Why else would we be the class to get the traited version?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

THIS! So much THIS!

MNK is STILL proven top DPS so why the f**k do NIN deserve to get a DPS decrease even when MNK is still hitting the highest DPS ceiling?!

I switched from my main DRG to become a main NIN because of how good the NIN was technical-wise and the fact it out-DPS's my DRG (w/ DRG Nexus) so I may as well just go back to DRG then if it turns out DRG is going to out-DPS a NIN in 2.45....

I WILL agree that the TP cost needed adjusting since Ninjutsu doesn't cost any but to remove ALL damage buffs from the Ninjutsu attacks themselves is BS.

---

Personally I agree with as many people going back to playing drg after 2.45 as possible.

Because I'm sick and tired of everyone and their mother playing nin. I for one am not switching back to drg, I've been waiting since release for nin to come out and mnk and drg were only filler for me until it did.

If drg buffs are enough to make 40-50% of the people switch back to drg from nin, then I'm all for it as long as ninja isn't getting shafted like drg has been since 2.4s release.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leonus

If drg buffs are enough to make 40-50% of the people switch back to drg from nin, then I'm all for it

---

we dont want the bad players back though, you guys can keep them :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mibhas

Gotta be trolling. Invigorate is very much necessary on Dragoons. Why else would we be the class to get the traited version?

---

I give it a 2/10 for effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daweism

The crit was almost 30% to achieve those numbers, had to give it a few runs to hit 520+, if you averaged out my attempts it would probably be around 510ish DPS, the lows being just under 500, highs just over 520 as u can see. And max full thrust was 1800 I think on that parse. Don't forget mercy strokes.

---

So you cherry picked your highest parse instead of the average and also padded it with Mercy Stroke because bosses exist only at 20% or lower. Hmm....

i love inflating my unlikely scenario parse with party str buff on top of using mercy stroke the entire fight and pray to the crit gods

Party strength bonus inflating a parse? I don't get why people parse without it. The only content DPS matters in is group play.