Are you happy with the current raiding structure in this game?

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Okay see here's where the the goal of Xatsh's comment seems to have flown over your head; You don't have to do 30hrs worth of content a week.

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I would just stop trying. By watching how this person quotes people and replies to them; it's cherry-picking arguments and not even addressing them entirely.

You won't put in 30 hours, you'll only put in the 2-4 because only 1 raid will be worth a damn and the rest would be "funsies".

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Originally Posted by Dhex

There should be at least 30hrs of content available within a week. It's an MMORPG - you're not supposed to be "finished" with it overnight... in a month... in six or even in a year.

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Find me a single person with every single achievement. No one in this game is, "finished".

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Originally Posted by Exstal

You won't put in 30 hours, you'll only put in the 2-4 because only 1 raid will be worth a damn and the rest would be "funsies".




Find me a single person with every single achievement. No one in this game is, "finished".

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That'd be my point. More variety at the same iLv would be welcome.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

What does Chocobo dye, Gardening, Mythology Tomes, or any of the other side content you've mention have to do with the fact that this game is extremely weak and shallow when it comes to raiding?

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A ton. You're not supposed to do raid content and nothing else. That is not how the game is meant to be played and if you do play that way, don't complain when you have nothing to do. Most of the complaining comes from people who play a lot, specifically ones who don't engage in the other things the game has to offer. FFXIV caters to people with lives. People who go outside, socialize, have jobs, go to school, are married, have kids, play other games besides FFXIV, only raid once or twice a week, and are playing the game for everything it has. Try raiding once or twice a week for at most 1.5 hours and see if you get burnt out on raiding so quickly.

Weekly lockout. Makes helping others a chore.

Insta-wipe mechanics make teaching others a chore.

Its all a huge chore.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

A ton. You're not supposed to do raid content and nothing else. That is not how the game is meant to be played and if you do play that way, don't complain when you have nothing to do. Most of the complaining comes from people who play a lot, specifically ones who don't engage in the other things the game has to offer. FFXIV caters to people with lives. People who go outside, socialize, have jobs, go to school, are married, have kids, play other games besides FFXIV, only raid once or twice a week, and are playing the game for everything it has. Try raiding once or twice a week for at most 1.5 hours and see if you get burnt out on raiding so quickly.

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Someone who gets what this game is about. This isn't a raiding game per se. Raiding is just going to be one tiny fraction of the whole package.

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Originally Posted by Seaku

I don't get this, because you could just make an alt character. Like you do in WoW.

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What don't you get, that the main selling point of this game is actually the wrong way to go?

I absolutely loved having all classes on one character so much so that I find it hard to get in other mmos now. Trying another class means not having to start everything from scratch, dailies, achievements, guild, friend lists. On other games the guild would get full with alt characters that are not online. On this game the reputation of one player on the server is much more impactful because players always play as one character.

That was a great thing FFXIV did but you're saying we should make alts. All this time me and crapload of other players have invested in multiple classes is worthless in endgame. So yeah, it is too late for that and I don't want to give up on the main reason why I stuck with this game.

The lockout should apply to classes that share the same loot not the character. Loot progression would still be the same but you can still go and play as another class like you do in other games. The system is much harsher in this game because the vast majority have all their classes attached to one character.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

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I think there have plans to get FCs going. There was mention of something planned but details weren't out yet. Players have asked for FCs to queue together in Frontlines, which I think should be possible.

Nonetheless I believe that raids will continue to be a small portion of what FFXIV will be. I think with Coil and ST, there is already quite some play time there, considering it takes quite a lot of tries on average to get the piece you want in ST. If you want to talk about raids giving the same IL loot which is IL110 as of now, I don't really think it will be possible in any near future.

Every coil patch are only cleared by a minority group of people with the masses still trying. Having another similar difficultly raid would probably add on the the pain for the people who are still trying. They are the majority which SE will always consider. So nope, I don't think so. And if we go back to the talk of removing lock out, it would be a merry go round argument again because SE doesn't seem to want to give in on that, because they want to control the amount of people who eventually clear and get the loots within the current patch, to maintain a sense of difficulty, exclusivity of the rewards.

Instead of just raids and raids, I'd rather see SE introduce more fun and semi-serious aspects to the game. Gold Saucer is coming its way, that's probably the fun part. For the semi-serious thing, I think some of the ideas floating around of weapons refinement seems interesting.

If any of you have played Dynasty Warriors, you might recall each of the weapon may have a certain characteristic which you may fusion it with another weapon to obtain a certain characteristic that you want. I think thing like this is pretty interesting and fun, and gives opportunities to create a weapon that can be unique. An Artemis Bow that grants +2-3% accuracy to the raid? Or a Warrior's weapon that grants some sort of bloodbath aura, maybe 5% HP recovery per attach for melees? After all, I think people do want gear mainly, and a side grade like this could bring meaningful results

Coil itself is already taking a significant amount of play time until you put it on farm already. I don't really think it is really wise to introduce more difficult raids that takes up more play time within the raid segment.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

Try raiding once or twice a week for at most 1.5 hours and see if you get burnt out on raiding so quickly.

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If I spent 1.5hrs in pick-ups as my schedule doesn't allow for static I'd be lucky to clear Turn 6 at all. As I said earlier in this very thread - step out of your static for a few weeks and the only endgame raid structure really starts to breakdown.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

If I spent 1.5hrs in pick-ups as my schedule doesn't allow for static I'd be lucky to clear Turn 6 at all. As I said earlier in this very thread - step out of your static for a few weeks and the only endgame raid structure really starts to breakdown.

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I am not sure about Excalibur, but for this week and last week's T6-T9 clear, I cleared as a stand-in/pug. My static has disbanded because 6 persons wanted to take a break from the game until 2.4 or further notice.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

I am not sure about Excalibur, but for this week and last week's T6-T9 clear, I cleared as a stand-in/pug. My static has disbanded because 6 persons wanted to take a break from the game until 2.4 or further notice.

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Last week I spent 9hrs in total reforming endlessly due to people unable to handle the final phase of Turn 6.

Inconsistency and make-or-break situations when compounded with varying skill/gear/knowledge makes the only endgame raid exceedingly difficult for pick-ups.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Last week I spent 9hrs in total reforming endlessly due to people unable to handle the final phase of Turn 6.

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How do you spend 9 hours in a week raiding but your schedule doesn't allow for a static?
And you keep complaining about players bring unable to handle the mechanics, but this whole time you've been playing you haven't met ONE single player that you thought was good enough to try playing with again? You've never thought to add competent players to your friends list or perhaps a linkshell?

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

How do you spend 9 hours in a week raiding but your schedule doesn't allow for a static?

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Flexible, unreliable or just plain volatile scheduling at a workplace is a likely culprit.

Anyway, why the hell are we bringing up everything else in the game and therefore saying a critique of a poor raiding structure is irrelevant? The game very clearly has raiding as a feature, therefore it should be as fleshed out and functional as any other feature in the game.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Last week I spent 9hrs in total reforming endlessly due to people unable to handle the final phase of Turn 6.

Inconsistency and make-or-break situations when compounded with varying skill/gear/knowledge makes the only endgame raid exceedingly difficult for pick-ups.

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I've been in both situations really.

I've been with pugs that one shot everything, I've wiped for countless hours with static.
I've also been one shotting everything with pugs, or wiped for fourteen straight hours on Turn 4 of BCOB 1.

As you go along, as you teach more people.. the larger the pool of people you can play with. You might think it's insignificant but as you go you kind of recognize the players who want to improve and who just complains and be a jerk about how life has been treating them.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

If they wanted to play with you, they'd leave their static(s) and form one with you. It's.................. that simple.

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Oh yes, let's leave a full static that is consistently getting to the last phase in T9 so we can fill in an open spot for another static that is still recruiting and working on T8 IF they manage to get there every week with a majority of the group being different pugs. IDC how much I like that other player, I wouldn't even try to convince them to do that given the loss they would take.

What part about this do you not understand? Or do you just like to insult random people on the internet?

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Originally Posted by Dhex

the content is not varied enough and the group sizing is too exclusive and it's bred a community of separation and isolation. Why else would people complain? There is obviously a gap here that grows wider with each successive update and the developers as yet have failed to address it.

That is not acceptable...

Square has left a good chunk (and I won't make up a community-wide statistic here this is from my own observations) of it's player-base hanging.

It's not fun to spend hours and hours with different shuffles of random people of various levels of skill/progress/knowledge/gear trying to just clear a single boss fight.

I'll also note here that it is very likely not fun to spend a single hour a week on relevant endgame content. Being able to run it multiple times to help, teach, and practice would probably be welcomed by most players. The issue of drops and players progressing too quickly is a bit of a moot point in the grand scheme. Gear itself is not fun - playing the game and beating the fights is the fun.

Raiding should be more than what it is - and it should be more accessible either via tiered difficulty or repeatable runs.

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Great post Dhex. Agree 100%.

@ Dev Team: Please consider the feedback being discussed in this thread for future content.

Yes, it ties into larger issues of how much content you can produce at once, your own choices about a stark Vertical Progression style, Limited Stats / Gear Options and more, but the bottom line, core issue is what Dhex and others are saying:

* Your End Game Structure does *not* promote Community or a sense of being able to HELP OTHERS (anyone outside a Static (if you were lucky enough to have one)).

This is only going to get worse and worse if you continue down this path.

We'd just like to see FF14 become a better game.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by JTribal

Oh yes, let's leave a full static

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Oh sorry, I thought you said they were your friends.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

if you were lucky enough to have one

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...getting into a static is based on luck...................?

Raid fights are fine. They need to separate Normal and Savage however. Make it more like WoW's Normal/Heroic raid system. Create stronger incentives to do Savage like better gear instead of just simply a title. Right now many T9 winner groups don't even look at Savage because they believe a title alone is not worth the hardships it brings.

As for weekly lockouts. If you can find a better solution that doesn't involve the loot becoming RNG and people beating it much...much faster, to the point that developers cannot keep up, then I would love to hear it. Yes, looking at it from the outside, weekly lockouts are a bummer, but it is a necessary evil. It isn't that a better solution doesn't exist, but the suggestions I have seen have more negative aspects than positive for the game in the long run.

Now to sit back and wait for the hate for suggesting something from WoW.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

Oh sorry, I thought you said they were your friends.

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Yes, and they are in a Static with seven other friends. Never mind, let me just tell you what you want to hear since I'm assuming the way you think is the only way to think now -

Oh man, you got me. You win the Internet.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

...getting into a static is based on luck...................?

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Is it? Please tell us the answer so we can all change our way of thinking to match your superior opinion.

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Originally Posted by JTribal

Is it? Please tell us the answer so we can all change our way of thinking to match your superior opinion.

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In reference to getting a static based on luck--I would say it's based on your social networking skills. Not your game skill (though you do have to meet a certain minimum), that's right, but your social connections.

You can be very skilled, but not have a static and have not cleared T6 (I know a number of people stuck in this situation). More than anything else, what determines your ability to get into a static is who you know. Much like getting a job IRL, actually...

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

In reference to getting a static based on luck--I would say it's based on your social networking skills. Not your game skill (though you do have to meet a certain minimum), that's right, but your social connections.

You can be very skilled, but not have a static and have not cleared T6 (I know a number of people stuck in this situation). More than anything else, what determines your ability to get into a static is who you know. Much like getting a job IRL, actually...

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No, I agree. Also depends on whether or not your hours match up with statics that are recruiting, etc etc. I've been invited to a few, most of the time it's either too early or too late , hence why I started my own xD

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Originally Posted by JTribal

Yes, and they are in a Static with seven other friends.

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So they chose 7 other friends over you, big deal, there's no reason to revamp the raid scene over it.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

So they chose 7 other friends over you, big deal, there's no reason to revamp the raid scene over it.

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You're free to have your opinion, of course, but many of us disagree. To us, it's not a matter of choosing some friends over others, but rather, a matter of social connections and scheduling that create major accessibility issues to the content. Skill at the game is not what's really gating it here. (At least from our perspective).

tl;dr: Statics should not be required for endgame content as it gates said content on social and scheduling facets rather than skill at playing that game.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

tl;dr: Statics should not be required for endgame content as it gates said content on social and scheduling facets rather than skill at playing that game.

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They aren't required. It's like you, and every other person who thinks like this, heavily misunderstand what the use of a static is. It's not to get into the content, it's to play with people who are consistently (or supposed to be) on the same wavelength as you are. You can make a "static" with your on 8 friends and run the content.

For example in Aion, you can only run an instance a number of times. You either go with your static for those fights, or you go with randoms. You are locked out thereafter, win or lose. It's the *exact same thing here. Except there is only 1 instance worth a damn, and it has a very long lockout timer. So the only actual problem is there isn't enough raids to justify the one week lockout. Any other argument is wrong.

It's not technically required, but pragmatically, if you want to clear the content, you pretty much need a static. Pugs just don't clear T9 and even T6 is a toss up.

Statics can be great if you have friends you like playing with that much, want a sense of comradarie, etc etc. But when you can only clear the content with 1 group of people, a static may not be required de jure, but de facto, well....

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

So they chose 7 other friends over you, big deal, there's no reason to revamp the raid scene over it.

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Your opinion is noted, but it's not the only one that should be taken into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It isn't that a better solution doesn't exist, but the suggestions I have seen have more negative aspects than positive for the game in the long run.

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I'd have to agree that most (mine included) are not thought out. If this is ever something that is addressed I also agree that the devs need to tread lightly and find something that doesn't completely break the balance in the game.

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Originally Posted by JTribal

I'd have to agree that most (mine included) are not thought out. If this is ever something that is addressed I also agree that the devs need to tread lightly and find something that doesn't completely break the balance in the game.

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Dev's have acknowledged before that they are looking into the current raid structure and seeing if there are any adjustments that can be made. I wouldn't expect anything till expansion at least.