Vote Kick abuse really needs to end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AiChyan

I just wish SE would implement a skip cutscenes option like the travel one, would save lots of time IMO and would stop at least part of the drama.

---

Honestly I would be completely down for a /cutscenevote or something that would enable auto-skipping the cutscenes if it passed, but I'm sure that'd just cause more problems when it doesn't and "wtf why cutscenes slow ass people I'll get another group" or something stupid like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nicobo

i am curious where could i read duty roulette was designed for helping new players? i thought duty roulette was design to motivate old players online everyday? ^^;

---

Your point is valid, but those that argue that duty roulette (SPECIFICALLY the main story one) on it being a tool to help was also mentioned in this link which provides a video. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...812-02-2013%29
In there the producer says "this is a way to reward players for helping others to complete the main scenario."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JSevilla

Your point is valid, but those that argue that duty roulette (SPECIFICALLY the main story one) on it being a tool to help was also mentioned in this link which provides a video. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...812-02-2013%29
In there the producer says "this is a way to reward players for helping others to complete the main scenario."

---

It's an interesting point indeed. I used to believe strongly that people were abusing the roulette system if they weren't willing to slow down for other players (now I just think they're a bit inconsiderate, rather than doing something wrong).

I think now there's more than one valid purpose to the duty roulette bonus:

1. So experienced players are encouraged to support new players
2. To pace players with different amounts of playtime available. Those who can only playt a couple hours a night can keep up with current content thanks to the roulette. Those with many hours will progress more slowly once the bonus is spent and therefore won't finish all content too quickly and lose interest in the game before next patch.
3. Keep each dungeon alive for any player (old or new), rather than just having 99/100 players farming brayflox hm

A few points jump out at me in the linked post to back this up:

1:22:23
Q: Will you be able to use the Duty Roulette when forming a party with 2 or 3 members?
A: We’ll be improving the Duty Finder extensively for 2.1, but I’m afraid the ability to participate in parties will take until 2.2.

If they do intend to allow pre-formed parties to queue for roulette together, this would suggest the developers support them obtaining the bonus however they like each day (including speedruns).

Main Scenario

Castrum Meridianum
Praetorium

This is a way to reward players for helping others to complete the main scenario.

As you quoted already Sevilla, this one does suggest the reward is also an incentive to support other in getting their first clear. Some may argue that dragging the player through and forcing them to skip scenes is still helping them to get their clear, but I think that's pretty lame personally.

Then this struck me too:

1:15:31
Q: Do you have any plans to handle players with different objectives attempting to use the Duty Finder?
A: Just as I mentioned in the previous LIVE letter, we will be implementing the Party Finder feature in patch 2.1. You'll be able to search for people with the same objectives and form a party, so please use both the Duty Finder and Party Finder as needed. Also, in regards to level 50 players being matched with lower level players through the Duty Roulette for low level dungeons, we will be implementing the player commendation system to promote the spirit of helping among players.

It is such a shame that no one's really using this with the "slow and easy", "Newcomers welcome", and "No cutscene skipping" options! I've tried myself to recruit with these settings, but I get little to no interest in several hours / attempts.

I wonder if there's a way to encourage players to use and check this more instead of clashing in the duty finder over and over. Perhaps if the duty finder showed an icon with the number of party finder groups available next to each duty, so when you're about to join you'll "hmm two party finders for that?", and check it out.

Or maybe if you can set criteria to receive notifications for. So if I register interest in any group going into one of my selected dungeons, with the specific criteria that I pick, I'll be notified any time such a group is created. Then I won't miss this opportunity.

Did anyone else catch this little detail in Support Desk?

Quote:

---

Although we understand the impact that is caused after being removed from a duty finder group, please be aware that Game Masters will be unable to take action if a group member has been removed due to a player dispute, or if their game style differs (i.e. skipping in-game cutscenes, disagreement on using specific boss encounter tactics etc).

To avoid such incidents in the future, we would advise to speak with either the group leader or fellow party members when joining a new group to discuss any specific party restrictions that need to be addressed (i.e. any loot priorities, allowing group members to watch cutscenes etc).

---

Meaning SE has given their blessing to bullying new players to skip cutscenes, kicks allowed. PF party is one thing, but this is for duty finder.

Quote:

---

Meaning SE has given their blessing to bullying new players to skip cutscenes, kicks allowed. PF party is one thing, but this is for duty finder.

---

Seems more to me that majority of the party decides. Nothing wrong with that. The kick I would guess comes if the player decides to do his own thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

....now I just think they're a bit inconsiderate, rather than doing something wrong)...

---

Being inconsiderate, even by bit is wrong, especially if it is deliberately be inconsiderate, like vote kick abuse and kicking a 1st timer watching cutscenes. Furthermore, I don't know how any one can be "a bit" inconsiderate. Either they did not consider the consequences, all together, though the consequences might be minor (which you can say is a bit) but they were entirely inconsiderate, or they considered and decide to be deliberately wrong by acting inconsiderate. In either case I can not be diplomatic about it and I will call them out. Being inconsiderate is wrong.

I can not fault people too strongly for being inconsiderate because they can't avoid/fix what they don't know. But those that do know and deliberately do it under the guises for being inconsiderate, like those elitist speed runners, those are entirely in the wrong. They should not be given cover or be allowed to think that abusing the vote kick is no big deal.

Whether SE comes out an say it in plain words, draw that bright red line or not. Chances SE do not want to be the law giver or law enforcer because they like some wiggle room to make things work. And in any case, just because they have GMs or they can change the code etc. does NOT make them the final arbiter in the what is good or bad behavior or what is right or wrong. To date they seem to try to help but they are limited. Actually the final arbiter is the player base and community ourselves. We decide what kind of environment we will be playing in. There are those select few who are the elitist and likes to exclude people, and then there are rest who wants a more inclusive environment where everyone can participate.

If everyone else is the jerk, then maybe you are the jerk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MythToken

If everyone else is the jerk, then maybe you are the jerk.

---

If everything was really that simple. But is everyone in FFXIV ARR a jerk? I think you'd have a hard time proving it. Is everyone on earth jerk, you'd probably never finish trying to solve that problem.

So since not everyone else is a jerk, then what can you say? You don't know whether if you are jerk? How enlightening? So confusing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MythToken

If everyone else is the jerk, then maybe you are the jerk.

---

That is some fine logic there. Yup, some...yeah, no.

And now Foo01 has proven Godwin's Law.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sove92

Did anyone else catch this little detail in Support Desk?

Meaning SE has given their blessing to bullying new players to skip cutscenes, kicks allowed. PF party is one thing, but this is for duty finder.

---

Wow... that is wrong. So a random roulette then can pop, and the tank can say "Alright I am here to get the healer robe that drops in here. If the healer rolls on it, we will vote kick you out". Random Roulette shouldn't be allowing such. These are random people who never met before. The high levels who already did the dungeon, shouldn't have a right to bully the players who are doing the dungeon for the very first time and want to experience the dungeon as it was meant to be played, cutscenes and all. Fine then, SE, make it so CM and Prae's cutscenes cannot be skipped at all. This way, it cuts out the bullying by the bullying elite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cap75

And now Foo01 has proven Godwin's Law.

---

Technically, I've not mentioned the "H" person, or the "N" word. So no that has not been proven at least not by me.

See:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...Godwin%27s+Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

I have not called anyone the "H" or any group of people the "N".

Actually for reference see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic
The majority that was the answer to the question was the Germans of the Weimar republic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sove92

Did anyone else catch this little detail in Support Desk?

Meaning SE has given their blessing to bullying new players to skip cutscenes, kicks allowed. PF party is one thing, but this is for duty finder.

---

Hello Sove,
I got the exactly same text today from the Support. I attended Duty Roulette Expert as White Mage and got into Brayflox Longstop with a WAR and 2 BLM. After the 2nd Boss I was kicked out of the group. I neither harassed someone, went afk or have been offline. So I reported them to the Ingame Support and got the same text as answer. So basicly SquareEnix just gave the Absolution to vote kick Players from the group that have different Goals then you.

Why do the newbie decide over the entire group?

Let's reverse the situation that some of you have brought up.

It's now the newbie who wants to speed run the dungeon, the others are against him. Does the newbie still decide? If not, why? The newbie is still as new as he was in the other example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foo01

Technically, I've not mentioned the "H" person, or the "N" word. So no that has not been proven at least not by me.

See:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...Godwin%27s+Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

I have not called anyone the "H" or any group of people the "N".

---

Right... you simply compared getting kicked from a group in a video game to the Civil Rights Movement, Women's Suffrage and the Holocaust. The purpose the Godwin meme is to point out inappropriate hyperbole. I think that qualifies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amberion

Why do the newbie decide over the entire group?

Let's reverse the situation that some of you have brought up.

It's now the newbie who wants to speed run the dungeon, the others are against him. Does the newbie still decide? If not, why? The newbie is still as new as he was in the other example.

---

Show me a newbie that knows about the speed runs and are geared appropriately? By the time they are geared for it, they are not newbies. So this hypothetical is pointless. And if they are not and they want to do it, they just get themselves wiped, if not the whole group. I've been a healer for said tanks on brayflox normal and seen this kind of crap happen plenty.

The answer is no one decides, the dungeon decides for you. LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cap75

Right... you simply compared getting kicked from a group in a video game to the Civil Rights Movement, Women's Suffrage and the Holocaust. The purpose the Godwin meme is to point out inappropriate hyperbole. I think that qualifies.

---

It is not a hyperbole, because we are comparing the definition of majorities. The fact that these majorities did stupid or bad things or the degree of which they did them is not the point of comparison. I am only demonstrating to the monkey butts for brains that majority does not decide right or wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foo01

It is not a hyperbole, because we are comparing the definition of majorities. The fact that these majorities did stupid or bad things or the degree of which they did them is not the point of comparison. I am only demonstrating to the monkey butts for brains that majority does not decide right or wrong.

---

That may be so and I agree that majority doesn't equate to being right. But the comparison was still in bad taste.

Just a little update. I've replied to the support and stated, that the vote kick Feature was applied to remove People who Harass others, be afk or offline... also I said, that in the letter of the Producer or the patch notes, it was stated that the abuse of the vote kick Feature would be handled by the support. None of the possible reasons to vote kick applied to me, and I was still kicked without any talk or notice, so I account this as an abuse.

Now I got another reply which states that the case will be investigated and that the support takes Actions if they find inappropriate behavior.

Strange... why not in first place?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velocy

Just a little update. I've replied to the support and stated, that the vote kick Feature was applied to remove People who Harass others, be afk or offline... also I said, that in the letter of the Producer or the patch notes, it was stated that the abuse of the vote kick Feature would be handled by the support. None of the possible reasons to vote kick applied to me, and I was still kicked without any talk or notice.

Now I got another reply which states that the case will be investigated and that the support takes Actions if they find inappropriate behavior.

Strange... why not in first place?

---

First reply is the systems automatic reply. The second means they are actually going to do something about it. I've chatted with GMs in person and explained things in person after reporting the vote kick abusers. It takes them a while because man power is limited. So some of those get away with it, but it is not absolution. It is just those jerks getting lucky. Just like not all speed demons speeding on the freeway gets tickets.