Stop "fixing" the MW scrap it

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

I've given multiple examples of an AH and MH co-existing, none got any response, so I'm curious to see what happens with this.

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Sorry Anathiel. I've seen that idea float around in various forms. I think its a legitimate proposal. :)

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Originally Posted by weeble

i don't get it? what is diff from ah and wards...they are the same thing with all the options we have, [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] only difference is u'r moving from ward to ward, other then that it's a frickin ah either way.

also i think only reason they gave us 2 retainer is cause it taking to long to start charging money for the game. after that we can all buy as many as we want for space and for extra 10sales spaces. this is a way better way to do it then old ffxi where we just mailed *** to our mules. it saves lots and lots of time messign with mail system.

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No it is not ah and mw are completely different ah works this is ah from FFXI this is what we should have or something simular
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfDk44X2HoY

A few posts in this thread cracked me up! The way I look at it is this... You can polish a turd all day long, and at the end of the day you still have a turd. MW didn't make the grade. Give us something that works; give us an AH.

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Originally Posted by Wild

A few posts in this thread cracked me up! The way I look at it is this... You can polish a turd all day long, and at the end of the day you still have a turd. MW didn't make the grade. Give us something that works; give us an AH.

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Polish a turd as done by Mythbusters.

Description for Clip : In his quest to see whether polishing poop is possible, Adam learns the ancient Japanese art of dorodungo, creating hard balls from dirt and water.

Uh huh.. Thats right! Yes!.

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Originally Posted by Seif

I'm at a loss of words for the recent decision to kick players out from the MW if there's too much server load.

Even more, I'm amazed by the fact that they're giving us more retainers.

Here's my beef: AH WORKS MW DOES NOT!

See how simple it is?!

I never use my retainer because calling it and using the messy UI is not worth the trouble because in XIV there is no economy to benefit or to use in the first place.

So how in their right minds did they think having MORE retainers each with their own inventories and locations makes this system anything but more cluttered mess?!

I never use MW in the first place because it's such a mess now the selling aspect of it just became 10 times more complicated. Good luck memorizing what retainer has which items...

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+1

Tip of the hat to you sir

I can not stand this MW system and it just drives me insane, i have yet to sell my 999 stacks of crystal because all the MW's are full...

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Originally Posted by Vexerus

Is the market wards perfect? No? Then by definition it is flawed.

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Keep retainers, abolish wards, instill AH.

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and RMT will get worse then it is now...........

Marketwards are fine, it has been pointed out many times. Is it perfect? no,.......does it need work? yes......

Just because something does not work right, does not mean it needs to be trashed and something else put in its place. I myself have had no problems with the market ward. I find what I need and get it in a timely manner, and I don't have to play the price guessing game I did in FFXI. Also when I go to sell my stuff, I can have my first retainer sell mats, and my second retainer sell completed items, and they also hold extra of said items that I use, so I keep my stuff pretty organized.

I see the "it does not work throw it out" excuse used on a good few things in FFXIV, and that mentality really needs to stop.

RMT can take advantage of the market wards just as easily as an auction house. They're just people with a lot of free time. If you can do something, so can they. Making your economy more inaccessible, unintuitive and frustrating is going to make people want to turn to RMT even more.

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

No it is not ah and mw are completely different ah works this is ah from FFXI this is what we should have or something simular
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfDk44X2HoY

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Dude the only differences is walking to the "seller" and knowing the price. The MW of ffxiv and AH from ffxi are the same set up. As in the menue system just better organized. And even still AH do not work nor are all that quick. I spent 2-3 hours getting armor food ninja scrolls ninja tool from the AH. I spent 5 min the the MH getting armor for my character.

So really stop complaining guys for no AH. Nothing was instant in Any AH. you still had menue loads, bidding /buying loads or checking mail boxes and reading leters to get your item.

There is nothing wrong with the wards and are pretty easy to use srop complaining about walking to a retainer that is a beyond stupid complaint. The idea in mmorpg is infact to role play and part of that is walking around and visiting shops.

Going from ward to ward is my only complaint.

I like market wards because:

1.) It becomes a fun race to find a deal on an item, and gives you that feeling of actually shopping for items.

2.) I usually check out other stuff someone is selling. Chances are, if they have cheap mining ores they might have some cheap tools too. I really like finding deals that way.

3.) If I want to just browse a type of item, say tradescraft tools, I can just walk around the ward seeing what people have to offer.

Is it that bad to have to search for items and go to the right ward? Really? I vote to keep the wards. I have no problem selling or buying things. There's even a search for and pricing (lowest to highest) for items, so you can just pick the lowest one. It's really easy enough to do.

You did not spend 2-3 hours getting armor and ninja scrolls on FFXI's AH unless there were none put up and you were waiting for someone to post the items.

You are a god damn liar.

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Originally Posted by Wild

A few posts in this thread cracked me up! The way I look at it is this... You can polish a turd all day long, and at the end of the day you still have a turd. MW didn't make the grade. Give us something that works; give us an AH.

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And AH don;t work either as at times It takes me longer to get gear from say the ffxi AH then it does the ffxiv MW.

Stop saying MW do not work when you complainers ruined it in the first place. You guys made it harder on your selves SE just put them in.

Oh and btw.... Some cultures use "poop" in pottery Like bat poop bowls. So a polished turd can become fine art pretty easily.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

You did not spend 2-3 hours getting armor and ninja scrolls on FFXI's AH unless there were none put up and you were waiting for someone to post the items.

You are a god damn liar.

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nope that was due to all the bidding and comparing items Mostly the bidding. Stop saying I'm a lier. I do not lie.
Stop saying stupid stuff with out thinking or asking questions. In ffxi not all items were always listed under the "last bought" price list. Or did you not realise this happen? I've seen items be last sold for 10K and it takes me 30 tries to "win" a bid. You didn't buy out items on the ffxi AH you placed a bid. And this was a full set of gear from head to toe rings and neck included. this was also 10+ sets of tool belts 1 belt stack for each ninja spell sometimes took me 10 bids. neck gear can be 40 bids. Each bid takes about 1-2 min to go through depending where you are. So no. Seriously guys stop being so stupid and release that nothing was 100% fast with an AH.

I'm calling you out on your BS posts.

Were you incrementing by 1 gil at a time?

If you were doing normal increments, 100; 1,000; 10,000; it would not take you 30 attempts per item to deck yourself out. No bid takes 1-2 minutes to go through, it takes 10 seconds tops. Any latency worse than 10 seconds would net you in a server disconnect.

Moreover, you said that it takes longer to get your items in WOW's AH, where you can see the price and buy the item directly from the menu, and take a single 10 second trip to a mailbox to pick all of them up at once.

You're a liar.

in some cases MW are better then AH.

compare to WoWs AH
1 better organized list of where your item is
2 no waiting for itens to be put in a mail box
3 not having to bid on an item due to a rediculously high buy out cost.
4 not having to deal with bidding and waiting several hours only to find you was out bid.

FFXI AH
1 you know the price right off the bat
2 no need to worry about bidding
3 no more worring about being a split second late in getting the last item listed.


What we can improve
1 key word feature
2 a menu buy out but taxing the buyer.
3 a larger area for retainers to deal with space issues
4 automatic preplaced locations and retainers automaticaly use stall and have option to "model" your wares through it.


There is no serious issue with the MW and only complaint is walking to a retainer. But that is the same time it takes to make a bid or wait/ getting an item from the AH/mail box.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I'm calling you out on your BS posts.

Were you incrementing by 1 gil at a time?

If you were doing normal increments, 100; 1,000; 10,000; it would not take you 30 attempts per item to deck yourself out. No bid takes 1-2 minutes to go through, it takes 10 seconds tops. Any latency worse than 10 seconds would net you in a server disconnect.

Moreover, you said that it takes longer to get your items in WOW's AH, where you can see the price and buy the item directly from the menu, and take a single 10 second trip to a mailbox to pick all of them up at once.

You're a liar.

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nope not all the time with WoW sometimes on the weekends the AH would be so congested there will be a notic on waiting due to congestion

And no I wasn't going up 1 gi;. More like 500-1K-10K iincriments. I'm not bsing. If you need proof log into Lakshmi and track down a Soulus. He used to complain how long i spent at the AH. Due to all the crap I mentioned. Stop assuming AH is perfect. It isn't.

Oh my Goddess! Best Idea Ever, just make all items non-tradeable remove MW, remove trade function.

Crisis & Conflict Averted.

I have nothing to gain about lying about the ffxi AH. I'm talking about my REAL experiences, [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]. This stuff did happen in ffxi. And it got worst. I try to get items so I do not have to deal with the AH in ffxi. I hated wasting time I could spent with my b/f ingame and having fun with him since we was long distance. I would have so much time wasted he would get mad and end up not having time to help me on a mission or hang out with me.

Again I have nothing to gain by lying. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] It also didn't take 10 seconds either I timed it. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] ... I did infact say, "depending on some areas" Like Whitegate had a ton of lag, so bid loading took a while at times. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

in some cases MW are better then AH.

compare to WoWs AH
1 better organized list of where your item is

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Bull****. WOW's AH as a tree menu that lists every item category, and every slot.

http://www.wowction.com/wp-content/u...cutting-ah.jpg

Each one of those menus on the left side opens up into a multi-level tree structure.

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2 no waiting for itens to be put in a mail box

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Items are placed in your inventory, but you have to run around more than you do in WOW. In WOW, you purchase all your items, and take a single trip to your mailbox to purchase all of them. For one single item, MW is on par with WOW because you have to factor in zone time and walking up to the retainer. For two or more items, WOW beats FFXIV hands down.

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3 not having to bid on an item due to a rediculously high buy out cost.

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Less than 1% of sellers and buyers make use of the bid function. It's a legacy feature on AH. Everything is done through buyout prices. There ARE no "rediculously high buy out" costs, because items go stale on the AH and price gouging encourages undercutting.

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4 not having to deal with bidding and waiting several hours only to find you was out bid.

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See above.

Not going to argue the case against FFXI's AH, because it sucked and MW is definitely better for everyone, but it's not faster in any shape.

Want something different? Compare MW to Aion's trade broker. If you don't know how that works, picture WOW's AH, but without the option of allowing bids and items are instantly placed in your inventory on purchase.

Wards are horrible. If you think it's bad now with the low population, wait until it picks up.

This whole game was designed around attempting to stop RMT so maybe they didn't have to hire more STF or something. Wards were included to make it harder to price gouge or take advantage of certain markets. It failed, miserably.

AH is convenience. It's faster to get to what you want, easier to put things up for sale, and doesn't take 20 instances of randomly placed retainers to do it. Get this shit out of here already.

In Aion you told not to use the AH i found out why and never did.
If they streamlined WoW's AH or your talking about an AH addon i do not know of it. I'm talking about not using any addons and from wrath day 1.
I also said you need to load up every letter unless they changed it, again if they did I di not know and if so sorry my info was out dated. The WoW I knew wasn't well organised and slow to get items.

I like the wards and they fit a purpose. No need to crap it. If you guys do not get why SE put them in, you fail.

In ffxi Ah's somet9imes would fill up on items and people sold them in their personal bazaar, this congested towns / zones and caused lag. Also if you played casually and couldn't leave your pc running or game system you pretyy much was SOL. that is why they made the wards. And why they keeping them. Just add a buy out option from the menu, but let those who enjoy the inter active immersive experience do so.

You guys made MW not work fyi. Not SE.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

The way I understood the comment posted by the community rep wasn't that we were getting more retainers, but that they were increasing the cap of number of retainers that could go into each ward. Then there were some very unclear remarks about countermeasures to reset retainers due to the very real possibility of reaching the new cap of each ward again.

In any case, why couldn't this have been posted in the current discussion instead of creating a new thread?

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there already is no immersion at all since the engine limits the characters you can see at a time pretty much. The more retainers there are the more ridicolous this thing gets...

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Surpisingly I check AFTER i price my items and I tend to be close to the listed prices. I sell my ore at ffxi price which happens to be ffxiv price as well 300-500 gil per ore that I sell :P

actually AH are immersion killers. Since they take you out of the game. MH do not since you still play your character in real time. :)

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A dead ward that you are magically teleported into and cant see the retainers a few feet ahead of you because the engine cant handle it... and the bit you see is zombie retainers... what an immersion...

The MW could be immersive but def. not the way they are. They are getting worse.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Apperently a lot of people forgot dev post where they said something like "We could just add an AH, but there are a lot of problems with the flow of money not gonna resolve itself, and ah wouldn't help".

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they also said they have problems implementing a mailbox system...

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Originally Posted by Aleya

Just a small question. Even though the AH makes a lot of sense, but has everyone forgotten what a mess that became with all the bots? They flooded the AH and made everything SO expensive! It was impossible for me to play! I never want that to happen to FFXIV.

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bots are starting to dominate the MW more and more in this game as well... the MW keep more honest players from using it then people or rmts from abusing it.

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Originally Posted by Gundammeister

I agree that EVE has an awesome system, but could you imagine THIS community, that can't even teleport to a retainer, having to hike through entire zones to pick up the goods they just purchased!? LMAO, that would be a whine fest the likes of which this forum has never seen.

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i like the eve system but i hate the MW. Since they are slow, menus are slow, everything is slow. All the zoning between each wards etc. etc... you can't compare a polished system like eve is with the ffxiv one ...

It's amazing how these loyalist can come up with all the lame excuses to keep MW, if you truly believe that FFXIV will be a success, and that it will have a normal 3k-5k players in each server in the future, you do know that the current MW system will not be able to handle those kinds of server load?

As for the immersion factor, this is bulls***, if your think immersion means zoning and more zoning to lots of single lane alleys, then there is something wrong with you.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

If they streamlined WoW's AH or your talking about an AH addon i do not know of it. I'm talking about not using any addons and from wrath day 1.
I also said you need to load up every letter unless they changed it, again if they did I di not know and if so sorry my info was out dated. The WoW I knew wasn't well organised and slow to get items.

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I definitely think it's a case of outdated info. The screenshot that Wolfie posted is of WoW's auction house interface. Stock UI, addon-free. It is well-organized, easy to use and fun to browse.

Trust me, I use the full Auctioneer Suite, as playing the AH game is one of my favorite activities. If anything, what I do slows me down just a bit because of all the robust options I have that pull up extra information. And it's still leaps and bounds faster than FFXIV's MWs.

Again, the entire process of finding an item (assuming you know exactly what it's called and type it in the search field), hitting the 'buyout' button, and getting it from the mailbox shouldn't take more than 30-60 seconds.

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More importantly, those crashes would never occur or would be extremely rare with a text based interface.

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Now, I know this was a few pages back, but I've never heard a bigger piece of cocamimi bull honkey in my life. Auction and market systems are inherently heavy on server load. It doesn't matter if it's a bunch of visible characters peddling goods or a text based interface. If something isn't set up right or programmed properly it will crash. If it overloads the servers things will grind to a halt or crash. It doesn't matter if the interface is visual or not.

They would've scrapped it even before Release if they didn't see any future on that.
Fact is: you're a bunch of MW haters and just want an AH because it's more convenient, but players have played for about 9 months and they've got used to the Market Wards. The Market Wards is Here, and you can't possibly change that fact because people use it everyday.
And no, people will not leave the game because of the Market Wards. Hell, even within Aion where after some days that AH was a... FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF***********************CKING MESS! Things overpriced, some rare sh*t put for few kinah and sh*t like that, but I didn't leave the game because of that.

But with the thinking that the Market Wards will remain in the game, you can still think of an "Auction House" in a place like Ishgard where you can sort every retainer's stuff in every city's Market Wards and buy it from there.
And if they combine this with the functionality of the Market Wards discussed in this thread then you'll have Convenience + Comfort. Bi-winning.

When they said they were going to be using checks to kick out retainers, they meant retainers they have sold all they're goods so when they're empty they get removed, currently you may see emptys bazaars taking up spaces other people can use which is part of the problem with how the cap is being hit more easyly.

im not gonna go into spewing endless argumentative thises and thatses but i will say this

market wards are much more limiting and require much more attention from the developers than an auction house does.
the market wards are very similar to an auction house, but consumes more time, is more limited in space for items, and requires extra server space and hardware usage due to the crowding of large amounts of physical NPCs crammed into one area.

adding an auction house would take time to implement and would come with its own bugs and problems, however, an auction house is easier to implement because because of the lack of having to physically build and then render anything but a UI client side.

please give us an AH soon SE, but for now the population is easily small enough for this to not be at the top of the list. im glad were getting battle changes first.

MW was again innovation that SE failed at, good idea bad execution.

My biggest problem with the MW system is that i have been attempting to sell my crystals for 3 days now!!!!! just to get the same message in every location:

"There is no more space in the area"

MW is nothing but a nuisance right now, and id like to see a basic AH just so i can sell my SH**

@Kilta

I don't know what your referring to in your posts about WoW AH, even during Burning Crusade (1st expansion) the AH was well done, organized, and easy to obtain what was sought after. If you referring back to vanilla WoW i never saw those problems as colorfully as you paint them.

i was for mw but it seems as though the system is just over all bad , because of crashing and im sure they could down grade the wards. let say go into the market ward you want to a single desk for buying the items u want from for example you go to the battle ward for sword go to desk search for the sword you want and buy one u could just set all up though the bell so retainer still has a place in the game also set up timer of how long a pc can be in ward say 45min to hour or there booted to a area in town this stop set up of a mule. that fix most thing with out having to scrap the retainers which would be a pain to try and transfer all the stuff we have on them to new system.

Kilta's pretty much just making shit up at this point. WoW's auction house has always been much better than FFXI's and FFXIV's system. The buyout prices have rarely been unreasonable and it's as regulated by the community as every other system. It does not take ANYWHERE NEAR the time to gear a character through an auction house as it doesn by having to go find every individual piece of gear one at a time (I can't believe you even suggested this), and going to a mail box to pick it up takes a fraction of the time going to every single retainer per gear piece to pick everything up.

We could even compare it if you want, it wouldn't be hard to record the time it takes to find and equip 5 pieces of basic gear using both systems and post them.

If anyone has fraps or something, it could really put the final nail in this god damn retarded coffin.

Kilta must be a troll, no one's that simple.

AH: Transcendent Heaven.
MW: Zombie Hell.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

AH: Transcendent Heaven.
MW: Zombie Hell.

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Don't zombies go to heaven? D:

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Don't zombies go to heaven? D:

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Evidently they sinned mightily,
or they wouldn't be stuffen into the wards
to twitch, moan, and stumble
for all eternity.

A lot of the complaints I'm hearing about the market wards are how they used to be. They have improved. I haven't crashed in months. Even if a retainer you're searching for isn't in the correct ward, it's still marked. You can search for the items now, even if they don't have it so you can type it in yet. The biggest problems I'm hearing are organization, space, and time spent going to a retainer. That's really not that bad, and they are going to put more work into the market wards. With all the efforts they have put into it so for, I doubt they will get rid of it. That said, it doesn't mean a bidding system on top of it may not happen, or being able to buy items from a search menu, but that's down the line. We're all aware how this game has it's problems, and that's in every aspect of the game. However, at least the market wards work for what we 'need' them to do now. At least there is a place we can always go to buy/sell. For people that are complaining there isn't enough room, that's partially our fault. We all choose to cram our retainers into Ul'dah. But, SE has already said they plan to expand how many can fit, so soon that won't be as large an issue as well.

I'm sorry to people who are just hung up on an AH. I'm sorry to those that get frustrated over the seconds it takes to zone and find a retainer. Honestly, I think there are way more frustrating aspects of the game and also several other aspects that have already been addressed.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Don't zombies go to heaven? D:

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zombies do, retainers don't only the retainers who never worked in the MW :D

edit: both need to get shot in the head though... no matter what

Retainers don't go to heaven. They have no souls.