An Open Letter to Yoshida-san: Please Slice One Zero Off the Housing Prices

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

So they add content that BY DESIGN won't be accessible for three months.

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On the plus side, I should have just about saved up enough gil to contribute my portion of my FC's housing cost by the time that personal housing is released...

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

So they add content that BY DESIGN won't be accessible for three months. He also expects everyone to farm gil for this and this alone, forget all the other things gil is needed for as well.

How out of touch has that guy become?

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yes, the average player wont get that much gil before his subscriptions ends... but whatever , SE made a useless feature nobody can afford, but what would one do in the house anyway, starring at the fireplace ? they should have rather implemented the casino so everyone could have some fun

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

So they add content that BY DESIGN won't be accessible for three months. He also expects everyone to farm gil for this and this alone 24/7, forget all the other things gil is needed for as well not to mention farming gil is unlikely to be content most people want to do for progression.

How out of touch has that guy become?

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^This. They just added a whole bunch of content. Are we not supposed to be trying that out? We're all supposed to be farming gil like a bunch of gil sellers? He's also completely wrong. People just need to boycott the housing so they get a clue.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

I'm surprised they didn't think of some kind of renting system to go alongside the lump sum purchase. What happens when an FC buys a lot and maybe a year or two from now the FC no longer exists or has barely any members around.

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This gives me an idea. 10% of the original cost as a down payment, and then rent would be however much it would take to pay off the rest of the cost through monthly payments for five years until the property has no rent left.

It sounds complicated, but it would come out to under five million Gil a month for the most expensive property on my server which is much more reasonable for a group of 50 active people to farm up each month. This would slowly draw money out of the players since even the cheapest property on Balmung would now be affordable at 2 million Gil at the start and 300 thousand each month for the next five years. Surely even a Free Company of five active people could afford that much.

Great post Abriael.

I support your feedback and suggestions 100%. I feel exactly the same way and really hope your post gets translated and Yoshi-P reads it himself in full.

Im somewhat everyday player, but there are those also even myself that have work, and my fc houses about 30 players all trying to be active and all is try hard for guildhouses, but really.. 80 millions way to much, even though guilds active and would work hard reaching say the L size land of 80 million my server or 680 million about for a legacy, is a bit way to much ,especially since nothing really sells on markets, 2 star or anything and if it sells its a 20k profit on top, to get 80 million for l size simply by farming, it would need to grind 2100 potash/coke and sell hq things to make that summ, which by itself points to how rediculous the prices are.

Drop the prices, if this would be free to play game i understand pricing, as in dragons prophet, but atleast there you could lease a appartment and have your own secret hideout plane where you could invite your friends.

Its not like i can go out to fc say, hey all send me 3million gill will ya?....

Thank you for the well thought-out post Abriael.

Wonder how many ppl in FC's that donated gil towards housing are now wanting their gil back since it's pointless to try to pool money for over 90% of the player population. Better off just saving every gil earned now towards player housing. Then again if that's the case and players horde gil towards personal housing. Then player housing might cost triple the FC housing costs by the time it's introduced.

Does the save up your gil for 3 months and buy a plot of land only apply to FC that are larger than 10 people? My FC is small and has less than 10 right now. We do plan to grow and get bigger eventually. I still do not see housing accessible by smaller FC is 3 months time. Why is SE so worried about housing plots being bought up as they just said if its virtual? Can't they just make more? They gave reason in the patch notes live was to keep lots from being bought out. It's air. Why not do a poll as to how many of each type house people are looking for and then make housing districts for that instead of all 3 types.

Well, I guess I don't have much right to complain since I'm on one of the cheapest servers, but still. I believe 4 million for the tiniest plot is still pretty ridiculous. And that's not even including the house itself.
We're a small FC that consists of 8 - 10 active people, but I doubt we'd even be able to afford the smallest plot of land after pooling all our gil together since I know some people don't even have 100k to their name.

I've been saving for this ever since I got to 50, and I've been lucky since the materia market was still healthy at that point. I managed to get 1.8 mil for myself which I consider to be quite something, given that I've other things to do besides playing FF XIV. But recently the markets have started to die, materia doesn't sell anymore, philo mats don't sell anymore, crafted gear hardly sells anymore either. Nothing really sells anymore, mostly because everyone has access to everything themselves thanks to the armoury system that's in place.

I believe the only people on our server who are going to be able to make money towards housing from this point onward are those who stoop down to selling Titan HM kills, asking for a lvl 50's entire savings and then some more. And it's not like they'll need to, since they've been leeching off of other players since the beginning of time.

I was really looking forward to 2.1, and especially housing, but I'm really disappointed now. Gutted, even. But I guess SE doesn't want us to enjoy things while we play a game for fun.

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Originally Posted by WHS

Does the save up your gil for 3 months and buy a plot of land only apply to FC that are larger than 10 people? My FC is small and has less than 10 right now. We do plan to grow and get bigger eventually. I still do not see housing accessible by smaller FC is 3 months time.

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Yeah that's the biggest problem. It puts smaller FCs at an overwhelming disadvantage, basically telling people that their playstyle more oriented to family-sized groups isn't valid.

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Originally Posted by WHS

Why is SE so worried about housing plots being bought up as they just said if its virtual? Can't they just make more?

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Server load. I would not be surprised if these prices are an attempt to keep house buying slow so the servers don't explode. We already know the reason why Personal houses aren't being rolled out now is because of the whole 'server load' issue already.

what I translated this morning, after hearing the housing stuff I wasn't even excited to keep my self up so I just went to bed...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...unp9yO0OE/edit

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

what I translated this morning, after hearing the housing stuff I wasn't even excited to keep my self up so I just went to bed...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...unp9yO0OE/edit

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Thanks for the translation Reinheart!

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Originally Posted by Nica

come to sargatanas and say that again

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I can say that again easily regardless of what server I am. It's not the AMOUNT of gil you have that matters, it's the amount of gil the SERVER has that affects ones earnings.

For those who are interested in the actual size of each type of house:
The number of players the houses are aimed for are my own opinion and might not reflect your opinion fellow reader :).

Small:
http://youtu.be/JsMjISM-_vg?t=1h26m26s
-> ok for FCs with 5-10 members MAX.

Medium:
http://youtu.be/JsMjISM-_vg?t=2h7m29s
-> perfect size for a ~20-30 member FC. Not too big or small and still cozy/homely for the FC.

Large:
http://youtu.be/JsMjISM-_vg?t=1h45m31s
-> for FC that are 80-120 members strong, but has a waste of space on the upper floor.

I miss an alternative for 40-80 Member FCs (Medium is too small | large is too big/expensive)
-> Medium is still ok for 10-20 Member FCs, but 2 floors(doesn't exist) should be enough for them (cheaper).

AFAIK it's still unclear if you can mix the land size with the size of the house (i.e. large house on a small land plot).

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Originally Posted by Lafiele

I can say that again easily regardless of what server I am. It's not the AMOUNT of gil you have that matters, it's the amount of gil the SERVER has that affects ones earnings.

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however, it is the amount of the gil that the server has that affects the housing prices.

Im still shocked and cant really understand what yoshi was thinking...
Housing always was mainly a feature for roleplayers and roleplayers usually arent the richest ones.

What about FCs with less than 100 members who dont want to gather in a toilet cabin?
Seriously, small houses are fine for personal housing, a single character but not for an FC.
How does it look if like 40 ppl meet in that small mog-house?

And this whole "theres more money on legacy servers, so we make it more expensive" absolutely makes no sense. Just because theres more money on the server, that doesnt mean its equally splitted between the players on that server.

R.I.P. @small and more familiar FCs who want to have an HQ (HQ, not toilet cabin), Yoshi isnt interested in that type of players.

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Originally Posted by Ethalio

AFAIK it's still unclear if you can mix the land size with the size of the house (i.e. large house on a small land plot).

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Nope, each Construction Permit requires a particular land size.

eg http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/d4a29a6a3b1/

Yoshida: Did not read xD
Please subtract 3 paragraphs from forum post.

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Originally Posted by Alegis

Im still shocked and cant really understand what yoshi was thinking...
Housing always was mainly a feature for roleplayers and roleplayers usually arent the richest ones.

What about FCs with less than 100 members who dont want to gather in a toilet cabin?
Seriously, small houses are fine for personal housing, a single character but not for an FC.
How does it look if like 40 ppl meet in that small mog-house?

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I agree with you, the prices for the land are horrendous. The medium-sized house though has 3 different floors and should fit the needs of the mid-sized FCs of ~20-35 players.

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Originally Posted by Ethalio

For those who are interested in the actual size of each type of house:
The number of players the houses are aimed for are my own opinion and might not reflect your opinion fellow reader :).

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Thank you for that. I was looking for a size comparison.

The small size, which we can't even afford at the moment, is really very small. It looks more like a house for 3 - 5 people in my opinion.
Either way, the price right now for something that small is simply ridiculous, even at "only" 4 million.

Wrong housing for FC is a collaborative effort. I have seen a FC with 512 members mine as 60 others ive seen have 300 200 100 they are all over. this isn't a one week endeavor all the whiners need to stop being lazy and earn something for a change don't expect a handout with everything that comes out. the mentality of the I want it now in this generation is sad. earn something for once. you want it now, play for a week then complain there Is nothing to do or no reason for gil. well I guess there is a reason for it now huh?

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Originally Posted by Aruseth

Wrong housing for FC is a collaborative effort. I have seen a FC with 512 members mine as 60 others ive seen have 300 200 100 they are all over. this isn't a one week endeavor all the whiners need to stop being lazy and earn something for a change don't expect a handout with everything that comes out. the mentality of the I want it now in this generation is sad. earn something for once. you want it now, play for a week then complain there Is nothing to do or no reason for gil. well I guess there is a reason for it now huh?

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"Stop Complaining now that something is a challenge"

I'm afraid you have the meaning of "challenge" wrong. Grinding doesn't require any kind of ability and doesn't provide any kind of challenge. It's just a matter of sinking more and more time into the game. Personal ability and challenges have absolutely nothing to do with it.

It's a time sink. Not a challenge.

Beating twintania is a challenge. Gathering an inordinate amount of money is not.

Did people really think they were going to be able to buy houses on day 1? Why does everyone think they're going to get everything quickly and easily and complain when a game that charges you a monthly subscription adds a feature that can only be accomplished over time?

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Originally Posted by Aruseth

Wrong housing for FC is a collaborative effort. I have seen a FC with 512 members mine as 60 others ive seen have 300 200 100 they are all over. this isn't a one week endeavor all the whiners need to stop being lazy and earn something for a change don't expect a handout with everything that comes out. the mentality of the I want it now in this generation is sad. earn something for once. you want it now, play for a week then complain there Is nothing to do or no reason for gil. well I guess there is a reason for it now huh?

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So you call repetitive and boring content (like gil farming) challenging?
Wow, working on an assembly line must be a dreamjob for you.

Very nice opening post, respect for that.

It just doesn't make sense at all what Yoshi is trying to do. He says that he wants the members of a FC to work together to get a house.

However, we can not do CT or Duty Roulette as an FC. At least make those doable with just your FC so you can REALLY work together and make money for the house. 50 people grinding like a zombie SOLO is not the same as working together Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Did people really think they were going to be able to buy houses on day 1? Why does everyone think they're going to get everything quickly and easily and complain when a game that charges you a monthly subscription adds a feature that can only be accomplished over time?

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Because that's how it's (correctly) done with housing in basically every other game. Housing is a very strong engagement factor that builds over time with decorating the house and acquiring more and more rare furniture. Not having an entry level available to everyone is a big waste of an engagement factor, because the feature simply isn't accessible to everyone, and not even to the majority, and that's for a long time.

With big, highly publicized features:

Getting entry level immediately and then building on it over time <- Good design, high yield in player engagement
Having to wait a long time to get to the entry level or not accessing it at all <- Bad design, waste of player engagement opportunity

I think none would have had a problem if a small house was like 1 maybe 2 million maximum, while the medium and large houses were the same price as today.

Than people would have gone for the small house until they had gathered enough money. No FC is going to trow away millions for a small house now. You can not even bring over the furniture you put in your house if you decide to move to a bigger place.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Because that's how it's (correctly) done with housing in basically every other game. Housing is a very strong engagement factor that builds over time with decorating the house and acquiring more and more rare furniture. Not having an entry level available to everyone is a big waste of an engagement factor, because the feature simply isn't accessible to everyone, and not even to the majority, and that's for a long time.

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Which I'm totally okay with. But that's just me. You don't leave mom and dad's house and get a mansion. You move out, go to college, get a dorm room, room with friends, get a studio, get signifigant other, get roommates, start a family, buy a house.

I don't know, I guess I just expected it to take a while, and don't understand why everyone else didn't.

Maybe if they slice a zero their subscription totals with this bogus grindfest crap, then they'll shave that zero off the price of land. There is no challenge to gathering 100 million gil, there is only the complete waste of time mindlessly grinding.

@ Naberrie - Housing has been promoted since beta, and before that more vaguely. Our FC has been working since launch to save up for this. And now, at our pace of gaining gil, we get told it will take us another 9 months to save enough to buy the smallest plot of land for a house that can fit as many people in it as a free mog house in XI and 10 fewer furnishings is nothing short of disappointing to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Did people really think they were going to be able to buy houses on day 1? Why does everyone think they're going to get everything quickly and easily and complain when a game that charges you a monthly subscription adds a feature that can only be accomplished over time?

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It's not about being able to buy a house on day 1. It's about the fact that the prices for the land plot are too high and different between the servers and most FCs don't see themselves being able to afford the price in a reasonable amount of time (3 month). Most players don't want to spend the next 3 month just on accumulating gil.
It'd be better to make a land plot more accessible for all FCs and make building the house expensive. That way the FCs could still place outside furniture on their own land and hang out together, which is far more motivating than grinding for gil to buy a plot of land.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Did people really think they were going to be able to buy houses on day 1? Why does everyone think they're going to get everything quickly and easily and complain when a game that charges you a monthly subscription adds a feature that can only be accomplished over time?

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Maybe because they mentioned during 1.0 that housing was going to be in 2.0 so people saved money?
Maybe because in the 9th producer letter live (i think, could be another source like interview) YoshiP said if you save up enough, you should be able to buy S size land at least and even that's not realistic for many on legacy server.

I support XIV development team and YoshiP but I really think this housing cost is a joke.
They say Legacy people have more money without considering not all are billionaires, that's only a 1-2% handful range (dunno the actual %) I has 7 mil when 1.0 ended, due to denomination I was dropped to 700k, since then I worked just a little and have 2 mil. I put in 100k to the FC thinking if everyone chips in (100 member FC) that it'll be good enough for land, we're no where close...

Why is it that non-legacy and legacy worlds can earn the exact same amount of gil from the mobs, quests but our prices has to be different just because some people brought in too much gil from the previous version. There are new players on the legacy worlds due to the 2 weeks of login issue people had too, SE forgetting that, those new players are same as new players on a non-legacy world, no matter how much those people try they aren't going to get the house as fast as those on non-legacy world. This is not fair at all.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Did people really think they were going to be able to buy houses on day 1? Why does everyone think they're going to get everything quickly and easily and complain when a game that charges you a monthly subscription adds a feature that can only be accomplished over time?

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No. We thought it would be prices we could actually work towards. These prices are completely out of my FC's range. It would take us five years to save enough gil to buy the smallest house at our current rate of gil acquisition.

I understand that you and others feel that our upset is silly and stupid, but you would go a long way towards being taken seriously if you would stop with this ridiculous straw man that everyone just "wants housing on day 1." No one has flipping said that. No one. We said we want to eventually get a house, and that it seems completely out of reach. Please stop being dense.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

We said we want to eventually get a house, and that it seems completely out of reach. Please stop being dense.

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I'm not being dense. People just aren't thinking this through. Prices aren't set. They drop if no one's buying. Which it seems no one will be. So while you're saving, prices are dropping. And my guess is that if, in six months time, only a few houses are up, SE will drop the prices even more when they realize they priced people out of it.

You will be able to buy one. Just not right now. Everyone just needs to stop freaking out.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

I'm not being dense. People just aren't thinking this through. Prices aren't set. They drop if no one's buying. Which it seems no one will be. So while you're saving, prices are dropping. And my guess is that if, in six months time, only a few houses are up, SE will drop the prices even more when they realize they priced people out of it.

You will be able to buy one. Just not right now. Everyone just needs to stop freaking out.

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Please stop telling people to not be upset. Please stop telling people that if they are upset, they're whining. Please go away. If you don't like what someone is saying, you don't have to read it. No one is forcing you to post and tell people that they're whiners, crying, and should just shut up. I get that you're not in our shoes - I get that. The smallest house on your server is only 4 million gil to start out with. That's awesome. That's totally in range. Hell, that might even be a little low. The smallest, crappiest plot of land on my server is 20 million gil. My FC has managed to save up a grand total of one million gil in three months. The plot of land on your server is TOTALLY doable. That's something that we could save up for, could really work for. The plot of land on my server would take two and a half years even at 50% of the starting cost for us to save for at this rate. Our markets are in free fall, and this isn't going to help. With no one buying anything, how are we going to earn more gil to try to reach this amount?

Please try to put yourself in someone else's shoes instead of deciding that because prices on your server are reasonable they are reasonable everywhere.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

Please stop telling people to not be upset. Please stop telling people that if they are upset, they're whining. Please go away.

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Planning on going away. But before I do, please stop putting words in my mouth. I'm just saying people just need to step away and get some air on this. The sky is not actually falling. Everything will work out.

EDIT: And for the record, even though my server needs less, my FC is probably still about 90% short of what we need to buy the land.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

I'm just saying people just need to step away and get some air on this. The sky is not actually falling. Everything will work out.

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same things were said by some about FF14.


... for 1.0

Greetings everyone,

First off, we'd like to thank you for all of your feedback thus far, and as usual, we're working to get it all collected and delivered to the dev. team. That said, last night our counterparts in Japan hosted a live patch notes reading for those that might not want to read the full wall of text. Yoshida joined in to offer commentary on specific aspects, and we'd like to share what was said regarding the pricing for the Free Company housing.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

One thing we wanted to avoid was situations where free companies wanted to build a house but couldn't because the land was sold out. We also examined all of the free companies across all Worlds, how many members there were, and how much gil each member possessed. We've been proactively removing RMT, but there is still a bit of RMT gil left in the economy which we've accounted for when creating the pricing.

In patch 2.1 you'll be able to generate a bit more gil. Battle classes can earn an average of 15,000-18,000 gil per day, and with role bonuses in the Duty Roulette this can exceed 20,000 gil. Doing this several days a week you can save up quite a bit of gil, and if all FC members do the same, it will become a considerable amount. We estimate that by doing this for around three months you should be able to purchase land.

For new users playing on Legacy servers, there were questions about how they would be able to purchase land as it's much more expensive, so moving forward we will be making adjustments to the lower limits. The prices listed in the patch notes are the high prices, and there have been comments that no one will buy them, but again, we will look at conditions and look into reducing the lower limits. We'll be keeping a close on eye on how everyone is making gil and on the economic conditions for each World.

We understand that the initial prices for housing are extremely high, but this is a patch filled with a lot of content, so as you are having fun and enjoying everything the price will come down.

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O.o


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