Can't make a full premade for Crystal Tower...

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Originally Posted by Thriar

Whoa whoa so you are saying they programmed DF to not work with their 24 man content before it's released. Stop white knighting. They knew they had 24 man content. Why didn't they program the DF to handle 24 people queuing up for CT in a pre-made. Jesus, just listen to yourself. This should've been programmed from the get-go. Reprogramming it shouldn't even be a discussion. It should have never happened in the first place.

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Spoken like someone who knows not what he is talking about.

Please continue with your Q_Q don't mind me

Here are my suggestions about how SE can fix this very troubling problem.

-- Allow parties to queue together before entering (it is not necessary to implement alliance support, just group the parties together in the instance server); possibly integrate this into the party board. This requires serious programming legwork.
-- Filter the duty finder so that full parties will only be matched with other full parties. The bonus to this is that it puts less stress on the duty finder servers, which would otherwise have to manage 24 random players jumping in and out of the queue.
-- Filter the duty finder so that it will prioritize Free Company, Linkshell, Friend List, or Server full parties before moving on to other servers and solo players This requires a little programming legwork.

Hopefully this thread is indicative of the implications of this lack of functionality.

Currently, much of the endgame content does not facilitate intermingling within groups, such as Free Companies, Linkshells, Friend Lists/groups and other alliances.
Groups for Hard Mode Primals allow for 8 people that can be mixed and matched, but is not currently a very popular activity outside of requirements for relics.
Groups for the Binding Coil of Bahamut work best when an 8-person team is static.
Other dungeons are 4-person and are actually much more restrictive on jobs than HM Primals.

This current situation encourages and incentivizes cliques and the restriction of friend groups. Crystal Tower was meant to bridge that gap and allow static Coil groups, as well as smaller 4-person teams, to join together in casual and fun content meant to promote bonding and camaraderie.

As we know, a strong social community is vital to FFXIV's success. Without functionality that lets players choose who to party with in a larger size than current 4-8-player content, much of the current social networks in the game will slowly fizzle out and die. There needs to be dynamic activities in the game that allow for members in different social circles and groups, especially across the casual/dedicated player boundary, to mingle and meet.

This shortcoming can not be overlooked.

Now I am just going out on a limb here. Which mostly everyone else here has as well so far. But what if you were able to "hone" your search for other 8man groups on your server, kind of like the player search option works, but could carry over in the duty finder

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

Spoken like someone who knows not what he is talking about.

Please continue with your Q_Q don't mind me

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I'm sorry. I'm just used to games that aren't full of retarded devs that plan ahead. Please continue with your blind white knighting.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Im not sure how many times this needs to be said, but you realize the inability to queue as a 24 man Alliance is temporary, and is being fixed between 2.1 - 2.2, at worst 2.2 will fix it.

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You are trolling it up hard. Personally I am just happy CT will be available and will greatly enjoy running it. However, it is terrible planning and design by them that is already rubbing people the wrong way. FCs ALL OVER the game have been making 3 8-man teams in preparation to run CT together as a group of friends. Your answer to people who want to run it with their FC is STFU and stop whining, just wait 3-4 months?? No one is going to want to run it after already running it for 3 whole months and it will just push more people away from the game since the MAIN thing most the people I know have been waiting for is running CT with their FC.

Should everyone just say "Oh, well" with the reason being that they could not provide something SO basic and SO standard in every MMO that has been around since forever?? Obviously you are just wanting to troll and so don't really care about the game being successful or keeping people playing and want to just bait people into debating with you when anyone with a brain can tell it is a stupid stupid move on their part to release CT this way.

The WHOLE point of systems like Duty Finder is a alternative way for people to solo experience dungeons and meet new people. When it becomes the ONLY way of running dungeons (which for 3 months will be the main life cycle of that new content) then you have a serious problem.

Interesting, I just checked Japanse General fourm. While you guys are enraging about CT, there is not much reaction from Japanse community.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Interesting, I just checked Japanse General fourm. While you guys are enraging about CT, there is not much reaction from Japanse community.

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It's almost as if they aren't a bunch of closed-minded, spoiled little crybabies who think that this is the way it is and will be forever! Imagine that!

I would just like to thank all the people having a fit in this thread for cheering me up. There is nothing like a bunch of over zealous people losing their minds to really perk you up.

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Originally Posted by Thriar

Whoa whoa so you are saying they programmed DF to not work with their 24 man content before it's released. Stop white knighting. They knew they had 24 man content. Why didn't they program the DF to handle 24 people queuing up for CT in a pre-made. Jesus, just listen to yourself. This should've been programmed from the get-go. Reprogramming it shouldn't even be a discussion. It should have never happened in the first place.

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Agreed. I don't even understand why this is so hard for Squee. It's not like raids this size are anything new in the MMO world. >_>

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Interesting, I just checked Japanse General fourm. While you guys are enraging about CT, there is not much reaction from Japanse community.

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I don't know the JPN side of things, but it feels to me that their focus is less endgame and more generally with the game itself. They seem to be a lot more easy going.

We on the US/EU side tend to be a lot more GOGOGO.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/..._head_desk.gif

This is pretty much how I'm feeling after 21 pages of nonsense rage replies.


2.1 - You form one 8 man group, queue up, join with 2 other groups that did what you did, and you clear Crystal Tower on 3 different paths simultaneously, joining up to form a 24 man fustercluck at certain times.
2.2. - You may form three 8 man groups and roll Crystal Tower with them.

The problem likely stems from the inability to invite more than 8 players to a single Full Party. The DF currently has no way to determine which 3 groups of 8 in a queue containing potentially hundreds of 8 man groups are ones that want to play together. All it was ever programmed to do was take 4/8 players in any given Queue and place them into a Group based on their Job.

It is highly likely that we will end up with a UI option that allows 3 Full Parties to form an Alliance, which is then able to queue for Crystal Tower.
The only issue with such a setup is who is considered 'leader' of the Alliance for purposes of being able to queue everyone into the DF.
Another issue that arises from such a system, is how the system handles mob claims for XP or Loot outside of Crystal Tower.

Majority of posters here becomes so defensive when there are discussion saying Japanse community is better than English community, yet, right now you guys are clearly showing lack of faith on your fellow English players.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Interesting, I just checked Japanse General fourm. While you guys are enraging about CT, there is not much reaction from Japanse community.

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Your point is?

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Originally Posted by Asakura93

Welcome to the NA/EU forums. Nearly everyone only complains and hates here. Nothing new. :)

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Yeah because the SE defense force doesn't completely overreact and make things even more insufferable around here?

Quick, we must defend SE from the haters! Charge my brethren, we must not let these scum talk foul of our beloved game!

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...DhQ3TyM0LvTl9w

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Originally Posted by Invz

Your point is?

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Have some faith with our "English community"? How is that sound? Why Japanse players didnt enraging to the idea of playing with random strangers, but Englsih players act like they are infected by the RAGE virus from 28 days later?

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

It's almost as if they aren't a bunch of closed-minded, spoiled little crybabies who think that this is the way it is and will be forever! Imagine that!

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Or its almost as if its 3 AM in Japan and most are not awake to post.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Agreed. I don't even understand why this is so hard for Squee. It's not like raids this size are anything new in the MMO world. >_>

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Name me an MMO that includes a Raid that incorporates 3 different Parties completing separate paths of the same Raid.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Interesting, I just checked Japanse General fourm. While you guys are enraging about CT, there is not much reaction from Japanse community.

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That isn't surprising. They seem a bit more broadly community minded and not as locked into exclusive small groups. Comparatively you look in the NA servers and it essentially functions like FC city states that jealously guard the borders and distrust strangers. One person I told just shout LFFG you'll get something; their response is 'no way I don't want to group with strangers'. That pretty much is the stereotypical answer; though most don't go quite to that extreme as shout and invite fate groups have taken hold for efficiency sake (and yet the world didn't end, amazing). Amusingly enough it drove the growth of larger FCs, which really aren't any different in many cases than your standard mismatched fate group, they just share a group name now. It is a rather odd response really.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

It's almost as if they aren't a bunch of closed-minded, spoiled little crybabies who think that this is the way it is and will be forever! Imagine that!

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pot calling the kettle black.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

Yeah because the SE defense force doesn't completely overreact and make things even more insufferable around here?

Quick, we must defend SE from the haters! Charge my brethren, we must not let these scum talk foul of our beloved game!

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...DhQ3TyM0LvTl9w

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I'm sorry, but where have I been white knighting the game? Hm, weird, I don't see it anywhere. I just look at the NA/EU Forums (especially General Discussion) when I need a good laugh, like right now.

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Originally Posted by Invz

Or its almost as if its 3 AM in Japan and most are not awake to post.

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Fyi that's still a time frame people actually are up in Japan given a lot of people's work schedules. Prime time in Japan is pretty late.

Matter of perspective.

I see it as a way to simulate adventuring parties that normally wouldn't fight alongside each other coming together for a common goal. Very different feel from "just grab 16 more people from your FC." Plenty of MMOs have already done that style. SE is trying something a little different. Your static 8 man working with two other (potentially static) 8 mans that you haven't met before could be an interesting/unique experience. Will there be derp? Yeah, but you choose whether you focus on the bad experiences or the good experiences.

Try to think of why they may've made the decision they did (try to think of something beyond 'catering to casuals') and the concept they might've been going for, rather than blindly rage about how it doesn't fit what you expected it to be.

A ton of people are going to way outgear CT anyway (they said AK geared, so Darklight is overgeared once again... just not as much), so it's still gonna get rolled. Sounded like there wasn't a weekly lockout like Coil has either (may've been mistaken), so no -need- to sit in a static group not playing with anyone else in the FC.

Long as Crystal tower isn't locked out weekly It wont be so bad. But the thing that sucks is those of us who have FC/LS with 100+ ppl (can be smaller) have been planning to do Crystal Tower as a group of 24, not with 8 ppl out of 24 only.

Pacing mechanism. If they allowed 24 people on phase 5 to face roll crystal tower in one day you would all be back here complaining on the forums that you don't have anything to do.

You can't have it all. You can't have meticulously crafted content in your MMORPG without pacing mechanisms to keep those with no jobs in real life from devouring in in 2 days.

MMORPG players will always devour content faster than developers can release it, which forces pacing mechanisms like this.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Heh.
AFK= Vote kick (Confirmed in letter coming in 2.1)
Trolling/Griefing/Douchebag = Welp, that guy is on the same server as 7 other people in his group. Guess who just got blacklisted by potentially 7 different FCs if the Premade containing such a stupid player was a shoutcraft group.
The option to report those players exists, as they're on your own server.

Try again?

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I would have to ask, how will a kick work out when the DF requires a premade of 8 to queue. Would the entire group get kicked? Would they have to know someone and invite or will it be restricted as primals are now?

Seriously SE...one step forward, two steps back.

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Originally Posted by Thriar

Why didn't they program the DF to handle 24 people queuing up for CT in a pre-made. Jesus, just listen to yourself. This should've been programmed from the get-go. Reprogramming it shouldn't even be a discussion. It should have never happened in the first place.

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I don't know that, because I don't make video games, and neither do you. Stop armchair developing.

For those who use random DF players are bad as ecuse, get real please. We all know that somewhere in our FC, there are always these FC members who crying about how bad DF and PuG is, but when you help them to Titan HM, they are always the one dies to plume and landslide. The excuse you always hearing will be "lag!!!!!" Right, blames everythng but yourself.

We all know not every players are relaible within FC, there are always few core players carrying entire raid group. I dont like the idea of CT in DF, but I wont use PuGs are all bad as ecuse in this matter.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Pacing mechanism. If they allowed 24 people on phase 5 to face roll crystal tower in one day you would all be back here complaining on the forums that you don't have anything to do.

You can't have it all. You can't have meticulously crafted content in your MMORPG without pacing mechanisms to keep those with no jobs in real life from devouring in in 2 days.

MMORPG players will always devour content faster than developers can release it, which forces pacing mechanisms like this.

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100% agreed.

Back in the day, the pacing mechanisms were from the ground up. Took forever to level, lost exp on death, had to group to get much done, quests were long and involved rare spawn mobs with rare drops, gearing up sufficiently was much more brutal, the list goes on. The mmo community said screw off to all of those things with WoW, and now things are different. People don't want any of those old things, because they're too casual unfriendly and considered archaic. Yet at the same time, they want an endless queue of content waiting for them. The mmo playerbase screws itself and is its own worst enemy, and is impossible to please.

Yeah the game does seem to be discouraging large FCs. No content for more than 8 people to get together and do? Hope it changes down the line.

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Originally Posted by Pooky

Yeah the game does seem to be discouraging large FCs. No content for more than 8 people to get together and do? Hope it changes down the line.

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It is going to. Take a look...

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A10: In patch 2.1 you will not be able to form your own alliance. You can enter with a party of eight.

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A10: In patch 2.1 you will not be able to form your own alliance.

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A10: In patch 2.1

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Get it? This means that in a future patch you will be able to form your own alliance, but the functionality won't be ready in time for 2.1.

I agree that this kind of sucks to those looking forward to doing this with entire FC... But at the same time it could lead to some very interesting times (and possibly frustrating hehe). I mean, you have your 8 peeps, you know each other and your capabilities and trust each other, then thrown together with two other groups and neither knows the other. BAM! You are forced into a situation where all three groups have to find a way to harmonize together to be successful. That sounds rather interesting to me. But on the other hand I am kind of seeing this going the way of "yeah you have 24 people... but you are actually only responsible for your 8 ever (as far as tanks and healers go)" so....

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Why because he wants to play with his guild and not random bots or people that dont pay attention I cant blame him because its hard enough getting 8 people to listen in CM Prae etc. with 24 it is going to be crazy.

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Because he said he'd bail on them purely because they're iLevel 55, he said nothing about them being part of his FC or not. Re-read his post.

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Originally Posted by EgweneALvere

I know myself and my free company are pretty disappointed to not be able to do the 24 man content in groups larger than 8. We were really looking forward to doing Crystal Tower as a free company and now.....we can't. I hope they either add the alliance feature in or allow you to queu with two other groups of your choosing thru the same server party finder.

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EGWENE?! YOU TRANSFERRED TO BALMUNG?!!?!?!?!

The game didn't let us make 24 man teams before now, everyone should have known it would sort by 8.

Don't be surprised when Extreme Primals do this too.

Well, looks like a lot of CT parties are going to see my party for about 10 seconds before I bail and reque in an attempt to get my other 2 parties from my FC.
Sorry in advance random people on the internet. Yoshida made me do it.

Bad BAD move SE.. Why bring FFXIV back from the dead, only to kill it again with nonsense like this?

For anyone who saw Reinhearts translation the key point here is... it isn't availableYET. They are already looking into having the ability to take pre-made alliance in, it just won't be available at 2.1.

Stay Calm..... patience is a virtue. :)

Awesome so this 8 people only thing is going to cause trouble in my FC! One or more core members will be forced to que solo/sit out of our first run. Awwwww...yeah. Can't wait for that. :/