Forum outrage! An explaination?

Not sure what the outrage is but it isn't those in the alpha, they would be glad for numorous changes, and also understand aspects left out because it is a stress test.

I see a lot dwelling on back peddling and other aspects which seriously are not a majo r issue at all.

For those complaining about Jump you can have this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM

I don't see why people take such personal offense to others trying to voice their ideas on improving the game. They've acted no more brash or crude than anyone else in spite of how our bias skews our focus.

People have stuck with this game for 2 years and want a game that will be well worth the wait.

Making up excuses, trying to make these people seem insignificant and worthless, is not only egocentric but kinda narrow minded. These people have the same rights to feel about the game one way as you do another, no matter how much it bothers you.

And it's a double edged sword. Just because people like Starlord can't find fault in the new game does not mean they're part of any defense force or white knights. And guys like KiriA500 aren't in it to make an exact copy of WoW. They just appreciate features and think they would be a good base on structuring ARR. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we're wrong. They're opinions. Opinions on an industry that is always changing and experimenting. There are no truly right or wrong answers here. There's more than one path to follow.

We need to all step back and reflect.

As for grammar: If you're going to communicate, try to communicate clearly.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I don't see why people take such personal offense to others trying to voice their ideas on improving the game. They've acted no more brash or crude than anyone else in spite of how our bias skews our focus.

People have stuck with this game for 2 years and want a game that will be well worth the wait. Seeing people get mad over others being concerned over certain things is much more discouraging to me than the people who are actually voicing those concerns.

Making up excuses, trying to make these people seem insignificant and worthless, is not only egocentric but kinda narrow minded. These people have the same rights to feel about the game one way as you do another, no matter how much it bothers you.

And it's a double edged sword. Just because people like Starlord can't find fault in the new game does not mean they're part of any defense force or white knights. And guys like KiriA500 aren't in it to make an exact copy of WoW. They just appreciate features and think they would be a good base on structuring ARR. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we're wrong. They're opinions. Opinions on an industry that is always changing and experimenting. There are no truly right or wrong answers here. There's more than one path to follow.

We need to all step back and reflect.

As for grammar: If you're going to communicate, try to communicate clearly.

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This minority crossed the line of annoyance long time ago with their complains and stance of not accepting anything if it isn't FFXI-2 or 1.0 all over again disguised as "concern" when it was clear the big majority asked for change.
Why can't we be more direct and harsh in asking them to stop with it when they fail to understand simple things like spamming the forums with complain threads wont do shit...none listens to their "concerns" this is not the place for it.. it is not a direct private VIP telephone line to Yoshi-P's desk ..they wont let this team even launch the game to see what they are capable of.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

This minority crossed the line of annoyance long time ago with their complains and stance of not accepting anything if it isn't FFXI-2 or 1.0 all over again disguised as "concern" when it was clear the big majority asked for change.
Why can't we be more direct and harsh in asking them to stop with it when they fail to understand simple things like spamming the forums with complain threads wont do shit...none listens to their "concerns" this is not the place for it.. it is not a direct private VIP telephone line to Yoshi-P's desk ..they wont let this team even launch the game to see what they are capable of.

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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zrXYAV1ZHK...Jo/s1600/amen.


Hallelujah! Someone gets it!

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Originally Posted by Warlock

This minority crossed the line of annoyance long time ago with their complains and stance of not accepting anything if it isn't FFXI-2 or 1.0 all over again disguised as "concern" when it was clear the big majority asked for change.
Why can't we be more direct and harsh in asking them to stop with it when they fail to understand simple things like spamming the forums with complain threads wont do shit...none listens to their "concerns" this is not the place for it.. it is not a direct private VIP telephone line to Yoshi-P's desk ..they wont let this team even launch the game to see what they are capable of.

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You know what, I'm striking that part from it. I don't care how much something annoys someone else. That should not be an excuse to deny the freedom of speech and I should not have even brought it up. It was selfish of me.

I have seen no one demanding this game be exactly like XI or keep it the exact same as 1.0, nor have I seen anyone require that this game be the exact structure as WoW. We all have completely legitimate reasons why we want particular features and structures to be added, kept, or removed from the game. And they do listen, they have been. Just look at color dye reform and the server merge. We spoke up and prevented the game from doing things we didn't want. Hell, the whole reason the game is being changed in the first place is because people spoke up. I don't understand why anyone would be against it. These forums are here so we can have a line to the dev team.

I'm tired of these labels we use to depersonalize viewpoints. "Oh they're just trolling, they're only white knights, It's just the vocal minority, they don't matter" It's petty and totally self serving. This sort of us vs them schlock just keeps us from having dialogue. We can do better. I've seen how reasonable we can act.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I'm tired of these labels we use to depersonalize viewpoints. "Oh they're just trolling, they're only white knights, It's just the vocal minority, they don't matter" It's petty and totally self serving. This sort of us vs them schlock just keeps us from having dialogue. We can do better. I've seen how reasonable we can act.

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I understand that demonizing the oposing view is the easy way out and it's what people will do 90% of the time. If you don't like it, make it the enemy.

I really wish people were more willing to discuss the game rather than have a back and forth of oposing ideals just calling eachother names.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

~snip~.

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The way you want this discussion to go is just how it started ...and since then the people that understands the changes and why these changes are necessary keep excusing the changes to those that wont even bother looking into them and reason why they been made and more importantly they been done for the better ..its easier for them to wave the "WoW-clone" flag or "its standard western" than us calling them out with titles like "loud vocal minority"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warlock

The way you want this discussion to go is just how it started ...and since then the people that understands the changes and why these changes are necessary keep excusing the changes to those that wont even bother looking into them and reason why they been made and more importantly they been done for the better ..its easier for them to wave the "WoW-clone" flag or "its standard western" than us calling them out with titles like "loud vocal minority"

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Well it's not like those concerns are unfounded. Yoshi himself has said he felt the game was too run of the mill a few months ago. And while I'm sure he's taking steps to change that, I don't think policing the threads with a demand for contentment is a good decision. People have played these systems before under different titles, maybe they're sick of seeing it, maybe they want something different and that doesn't automatically mean "make it like 1.0/XI" or "I hate it because WoW". Maybe they like to spend more time on something others think is a waste. It's not always out of ignorance of nostalgia. In fact, based on my observations, I'd say it's pretty rare.

It's a matter of personal perspective and like I said earlier: There are no truly right or wrong answers here. There's more than one path to follow.

Boy did this thread go way off into left field from what i originally posted about. I just want to clarify, again, that I was only trying to understand the rationalization of some persistent posting that has occurred. i was not invalidating the content of posts or trying to devalue people opinions or right to post. I actually thought it was a pretty legit reason for certain behaviors from a certain group.

I'm actually kind of sad to see things degrade as they did around page 4 but it was around there that the OP was not really addressed so much as it was the other posters so i guess i shouldnt take it too personally. Thanks for all the input and sorry for creating such distress.

I'm glad to see others expressing their points of view and thank you for allowing me to express mine.