Alpha Video 4- Quests and Battle

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Originally Posted by indira

they should of showed other kinds of quest everyone knows theres gonna be kill quest.

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Do you REALLY want Parley to return? It probably will, but I won't be bugging folks for the Alpha version of it.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I'm not sure what's worse, the way MMO developers these days treat gamers as though they're morons who can't tie their own shoe-laces without an illustrated step-by-step guide, or the fact that so many gamers actually like being treated that way.

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Can i add you on facebook?

well for those "pro" players.. just dont look at the map then if you do not like it.

we had these markers also in 1.0. as for leves and as for the quests if you dont know this already.

so shut the fuck up

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Stop being ridiculous.

First, people did quests in XI plenty - they only avoided the ones that felt like too much effort for not enough reward (which is entirely subjective). Of course, considering how "reward-driven" so many MMO gamers are these days, it becomes a lot of them. We're talking about people who consider any amount of time/effort that stands between them and their "shinies" to be a horrible crime against humanity. That's an issue with the impatient and entitled gamer's mindset typical of "modern gaming", not with the game itself.

Second, FFXI actually played like an RPG, where you're encouraged/required to actually - you know - explore, investigate, talk to different NPCs, see what they have to say, see if they want/need/request anything of you. You actually do have to pay attention to what they're saying and follow-through on it. They actually required you to use your brain - which of course, in today's MMO market is tantamount to asking many to poke their own eye out with a hot stick. FFXI treats you like an actual Adventurer, not a helpless and hopeless idiot who needs to be shown the how/where/what of everything in order to complete it.

Quests in XI felt 100x more like actual quests than almost anything out of the "gaming on training wheels" nonsense to come out since WoW started dumbing down the genre and babying the players. I'm talking everything outside of FoV and GoV which were added much later and are not the core storyline, etc.

The biggest problem with XI was in how poorly worded or translated many of the quests were. That was a problem with the localization, not with the quests themselves. In those cases, yes, you would have to ask another player who may have completed it, or go online to figure it out. There were plenty of quests I did in XI, however, where I never needed to do anything but actually read what the NPC was saying to get through it. Then, SE did the right thing by leaving it up to me to figure it out and complete the task - which is what a quest should be. Killing 10 boars that all but have freaking neon-signs on them saying "Hey stupid, I'm right here. Kill me", so you can find them if you're not even looking, is not questing. It's mundane, repetitive, patronizing and frankly, insulting, BS.

Being given tasks where you are not even required to read a single word of what the NPC says because every. single. step. is clearly pointed out for you is not questing. It's derivative, boring, empty and shallow nonsense. It's lazy, uninspired design and it's something for which Yoshi-P deserves derision, not praise.

If this is the kind of brainless, repetitive, uninspired and boring crap some of you people consider "engaging and fun content", well then be happy... Looks like you're gonna be drowning in it.

I'm not sure what's worse, the way MMO developers these days treat gamers as though they're morons who can't tie their own shoe-laces without an illustrated step-by-step guide, or the fact that so many gamers actually like being treated that way.

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I mostly agree with you, but I think the old questing systems worked better when here was no internet to look it up, and there were no guides or yo had to buy them, and well, there were guides, so then the use your brain get's kind of aside. This shows that most gamers do not want to use their brains while questing, they want fun gameplay and an engaging story.

So if guides and all that will be made regardless of the game design, developers started making those guides a part of the game, so people just focus inside of the game and the immersion get's less broken than having to read a guide. And secondly, as someone pointed out, these are side quests, not the main history mission, so I guess it's not that bad, but I guess there should be a compromise between a step by step hand handling through the game, and having to find your own solutions.

As other main reason why developers do this is, sadly, to cater to a wider audience, and game companies are just that in the end of the day, companies, and they need to make their profit so we can get further games from them, so if dumbing down the questing system get's more money in... they will do it, if complex puzzles and "Gymkhana" questing style game more money, we wouldn't be seeing the games getting "casualized".

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

well for those "pro" players.. just dont look at the map then if you do not like it.

we had these markers also in 1.0. as for leves and as for the quests.

so shut the fuck up

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Oooh... an anonymous internet tough guy is telling me to shut up and throwing expletives around!

Looks like I've been told!

lol...

Yes, there were markers for leves in 1.0 because those were intended as short-term "quick content". Guess what? Leves are still in ARR, and what this video shows aren't leves. They're standard "quests" given out by world NPCs. These are the bread and butter of what the game will be.

I like how you mention the stuff on the map, but completely ignore mention of the large, gold icons floating all over the screen in-game as well. What's your advice for that? "Don't look at the screen"?

Maybe you should take your own advice there, yeah?

The difference is:
At FFXI it was my decision, if i need help on a quest or not.
I could take a look at 3rd party websites, but i didn't have to.
It's not that the quests were not doable without help.
Sure, ffxiclopedia and such was very helpful, but this here is something else.

the quest direction is not only served on a silver platter it's thrown right in your face.
it looks like some kind of paternalism.
the only thing that's missing is an auto-pilot.
I just hope, there are some quests that actually require some brain.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Oooh... an anonymous internet tough guy is telling me to shut up and throwing expletives around!

Looks like I've been told!

lol...

Yes, there were markers for leves in 1.0 because those were intended as short-term "quick content". Guess what? Leves are still in ARR, and what this video shows aren't leves. They're standard "quests" given out by world NPCs. These are the bread and butter of what the game will be.

I like how you mention the stuff on the map, but completely ignore mention of the large, gold icons floating all over the screen in-game as well. What's your advice for that? "Don't look at the screen"?

Maybe you should take your own advice there, yeah?

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Well, its your complaint, so you should be doing it. don't tell me you weren't looking at the icons on the map in 1.0. and just think, when you click on them: POOF! They are gone!

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

well boring, repetive, uninspired was "standing in one place and grind your ass off"... in my opinion. Like you did in FFXI.
lots of time sink because you had to regenerate hours for your MP and HP.

That has nothing to do with GAMING experience like in an offline final fantasy. like Final Fantasy 12 etc.


AND Questing wont be the only thing to do.. Public Events, Low Level dungeon with bosses in it.. guildleves... and thats how i call it fun..


When you want to grind your ass off, do so. nobody will ever stop you. and that you have to look up the internet for some of the quest steps in FFXI is just BAD Gamedesign. that you dont even had to do in an offline FF.


if you have a map with you, why cant the quest giver mark it on the map, where he told you to go? is a map that unrealistic? not to me. and i think its better to read through bubbles than through a quest text box... nobody would read the quest box..

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Awesome strawman there.

I'm talking specifically about the questing in FFXIV: ARR being a mindless, brainless endeavor as compared to questing in FFXI actually deserving the description, by making the player actually have to figure out and find things on their own.

I'm pretty clear in what I'm talking about, so you had to try pretty hard to completely miss it that completely.

Try again?

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Yes, there were markers for leves in 1.0 because those were intended as short-term "quick content". Guess what? Leves are still in ARR, and what this video shows aren't leves. They're standard "quests" given out by world NPCs. These are the bread and butter of what the game will be.

I like how you mention the stuff on the map, but completely ignore mention of the large, gold icons floating all over the screen in-game as well. What's your advice for that? "Don't look at the screen"?

Maybe you should take your own advice there, yeah?

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ehm you havent quested in 1.0. did you? there have been also markers for quests and missions.... *rolls....

and yeah, you dont have to use the map then.. then you wont see markers on it. problem solved for the "pro" fanbase.
sorry.. thats just big *blabla* and flaming about old times and bad game design.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Awesome strawman there.

I'm talking specifically about the questing in FFXIV: ARR being a mindless, brainless endeavor as compared to questing in FFXI actually deserving the description, by making the player actually have to figure out and find things on their own.

I'm pretty clear in what I'm talking about, so you had to try pretty hard to completely miss it that completely.

Try again?

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well you really have to use your brain when the mission said "go to taka tuka tomb and kill the big bat"?

its really no big deal or difference to me..

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Yes, there were markers for leves in 1.0 because those were intended as short-term "quick content". Guess what? Leves are still in ARR, and what this video shows aren't leves. They're standard "quests" given out by world NPCs. These are the bread and butter of what the game will be.

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Weird, I guess all those little (!) bubbles on the map for missions/story content were just my imagination.