Before I see any more "nitpicking ARR" threads.

Easy there tiger. You missed what I'm saying.

I'm all for the nitpicking and bitching when its warranted. Right now its not even OFFICIALLY open to our region yet, so how the hell do you suppose SE is supposed to take your bitching seriously when you're watching illegal livestreams of jp alpha?

Wait until its our turn to start properly bitching. THAT's what I'm trying to say.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Sadly, the forum has already been over this.

If we're not in alpha, none of our feedback matters.

I guess we just have to see problems and ignore them completely, it wouldn't be fair to hurt the poor dev teams feelings. When Yoshi-p stated he wanted feedback, you could tell he was actually recoiling in fear from the concentrated wrath.

Because it is completely impossible to point out issues in a constructive way, and any issue means you hate the game and you want it to fail and you're a hater who should go back to FFXI or wow.

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I think the problem is that not many people are actually giving feedback on actual technical issues. They're voicing opinions on how "I don't like how the animations look. The game will not be good if those animations aren't improved". That's not constructive feedback on a technical issue in the game, that's personal opinion on an aesthetic aspect of it.

Saying "the grass looks terrible, the game will not be good if they don't fix that grass" is, again, someone asking for something aesthetic to be changed to their personal liking. That's not helpful feedback for testing of a game.

What we see in a limited quality video showing very limited gameplay in short snippets is hardly enough to go on for any kind of truly helpful feedback.

Actual Alpha/Beta testing feedback looks something like this (just a very basic, made-up example; real feedback forms usually request system specs and other stuff as well):

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Issue: Character gets stuck in environment if switching between active/passive mode while standing close to certain boulders or convex surfaces.

How to replicate: Find a location with a sloping hill, or other convex geometry (I was at position x, y and x,y in Northern Shroud, when it happened for example), and then switch between active and passive mode in quick succession. You will find the character becomes stuck and you are unable to move.

When Did it Happen? Various times on Jan 6 2012

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That is helpful and useful feedback about an actual issue that could potentially affect everyone playing, and that can be objectively tested, replicated and resolved.

Saying "I don't like the animations. They need to be fixed, or the game will suffer for" is not "alpha feedback". It's someone voicing their opinions on something, based entirely on their own personal preferences.

This is why people are saying "we can't really give good alpha feedback until we're actually testing the game". Because, frankly, we can't.

And if someone is selected as an Alpha tester, and is submitting bug reports saying stuff like:

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Issue: The grass is ugly

How to replicate: Just look at it. It's ugly. It needs to be improved. Seriously. I won't play this game if this is how the grass looks at release.

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they should be removed and replaced with someone who actually understands and respects what an Alpha/Beta test is for; for someone who's eager to help the devs by giving helpful feedback about real issues to improve the game for everyone, not just make it "prettier" for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Easy there tiger. You missed what I'm saying.

I'm all for the nitpicking and bitching when its warranted. Right now its not even OFFICIALLY open to our region yet, so how the hell do you suppose SE is supposed to take your bitching seriously when you're watching illegal livestreams of jp alpha?

Wait until its our turn to start properly bitching. THAT's what I'm trying to say.

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Sorry, the two finger salute wasn't for you. More in general to the people who seem to think that feedback at an early stage is impossible. (also the notion that you can't give feedback on aesthetic issues)

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Sorry, the two finger salute wasn't for you. More in general to the people who seem to think that feedback at an early stage is impossible. (also the notion that you can't give feedback on aesthetic issues)

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If the "aesthetic issues" bit is targeted at me... I never said you can't discuss them. I'm just clarifying that they're not things you would be submitting feedback for during an alpha test.


People in this thread, and others, love to say how "they're providing feedback for Alpha Testing to improve the game". That's not "alpha testing" feedback. That's personal opinions being casually discussed.

If people want to discuss how the grass looks, or the animations, or whatever.. Great. Have at it. Just stop trying to escalate it to more than it is by describing it as "providing Alpha feedback to improve the game", and conjuring up images of the Alpha/Beta for 1.0 as some kind of "doomsday" fear tactic of "what will happen if we don't speak up about the animations now!"

No. You're getting mixed up between bug reports and feedback.

You submit a bug report when there's a glitch or bug. You provide feedback when you want to discuss graphics, sounds, NPC dialog, difficulty inconsistencies etc.

Janky animations are EXACTLY what you would submit feedback for. Unless XIV's alpha/beta is different to every other MMO alpha/beta that is.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

No. You're getting mixed up between bug reports and feedback.

You submit a bug report when there's a glitch or bug. You provide feedback when you want to discuss graphics, sounds, NPC dialog, difficulty inconsistencies etc.

Janky animations are EXACTLY what you would submit feedback for. Unless XIV's alpha/beta is different to every other MMO alpha/beta that is.

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You're right. Bugs and Feedback are different. I'm not confusing the two at all.

The problem is, there are people providing opinions as though it were a "bug report".

People have been trying to escalate their own personal opinions to "bug" status by invoking 1.0's Alpha/Beta with the whole "remember 1.0? We thought it would be fine then, too". And they're using that as their "defense" for why they keep going on about it.

The animations being simplified/stripped down is not a game-breaking issue. It's not a bug. It was a deliberate and informed decision made as a trade-off by the developers. Certain people don't like that answer, and so they keep trying to make it sound like it's a "bug", and not just them rattling on about their own personal preferences.

People were arguing about "ugly grass" as though it's a bug that needs to be fixed, when in fact, it's not a bug at all. And again, when people say something about it, they get the "remember 1.0?" nonsense.

I read these forums plenty. I see what people say and how they present it.

I haven't seen anyone try to define the bad animations as a bug, there are people that go OTT, but those people are generally ignored (Rokien etc)

Feedback doesn't have to be about game-breaking issues. Feedback covers a wide scope of issues (subjective or not) that can be discussed or pointed out. There's no need to make arbitrary definitions on what is and isn't feedback.

Even bad feedback (This game is shit because the animations are bad) is still feedback, even though it doesn't accomplish much.

Give me an example of someone who has presented the lack of animations as a bug (and isn't trying to defend SE with the post IE: Well it's just bad because it's bugged right now)

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I haven't seen anyone try to define the bad animations as a bug.

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I'm awaiting the responce that tells people they shouldn't give feedback because we aren't in Alpha yet. It's a shame a few people are very vocal about telling people to stop telling the developers what we think of the game, just because they are in alpha doesn't mean they aren't listening to us about non-alpha related issues.

The animations are a big deal to some people, so please for the love of god stop telling people what they should / shouldn't talk about.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I'm awaiting the responce that tells people they shouldn't give feedback because we aren't in Alpha yet. It's a shame a few people are very vocal about telling people to stop telling the developers what we think of the game, just because they are in alpha doesn't mean they aren't listening to us about non-alpha related issues.

The animations are a big deal to some people, so please for the love of god stop telling people what they should / shouldn't talk about.

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Seriously dude what part of "animations not been alpha feedback" you didn't understand? despite the fact SE already confirmed why the animations are going to be that way it is justified and if there is a sacrifice in animations if any at the end will be for a much greater good. SE doesn't want some people to play this game.. they want hundred of thousands ...and for that to happen 1.0 animations can't stay ..not all of them maybe when they upgrade to DirectX 11

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Seriously dude what part of "animations not been alpha feedback" you didn't understand? despite the fact SE already confirmed why the animations are going to be that way it is justified and if there is a sacrifice in animations if any at the end will be for a much greater good. SE doesn't want some people to play this game.. they want hundred of thousands ...and for that to happen 1.0 animations can't stay ..not all of them maybe when they upgrade to DirectX 11

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what we've seen so far for animations is a joke to the industry & to the community as is the reason behind it. Animations are not taxing on any modern CPU at all, making tits bounce is more strainfull on a CPU than any coded animation will ever be. if animations have not improved by beta shit will hit the.