Evolved mode concerns

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Originally Posted by StarryVera

Most people who played any sort of PvP for any sizable time period realized how flawed that statement was in general, has anyone actually played PvP with the kits and had to play Shatter?

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If we think that pve is like shatter and hitting a dummy crystal, then I fear that's not the kind of pve I want out of the game, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Budew

Not the bard haters frothing at the mouth to finally play EW summoner in the correct category.

Just chiming in to say I agree with OP. Maybe if more bard mains speak out, SE might listen... but their track record does not spark confidence. I mentioned in the DPS forums, but I support bard getting a major shake-up (whether it's by changing how songs work or something to replace DoT management, etc.), but completely redefining a job's identity isn't really a shake-up- it's removing the job altogether. Obviously evolved bard is still a work-in-progress, but the fact that they chose to showcase this version to thousands in order to generate hype is concerning. It makes me feel like they're already confident in their idea to take bard in the same direction as EW summoner, and the positive feedback from the general playerbase will only reinforce that.

For a playerbase that claims to want truly unique jobs, I wish more people would advocate for jobs to stay distinct and support ones they don't personally play. Right now, it feels like a lot of people are excited a job they dislike is being changed to cater to them. At fanfest, the person behind me yelled out that they were "finally excited to try bard in 8.0." I'm going to try to stay optimistic and that Berlin or Tokyo fan fest will showcase something entirely different from what we've seen at Anaheim. (Or maybe media tour will make SE add procs last minute, just like how DT media tour bard was different from release bard).

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Honestly I really think people are fine with accepting any form of changes Because It's not the 2m meta, and while I can get behind that, it shouldn't be at the cost of removing so much out of it
I played Bard during Cruiserweight and Light Heavyweight and frankly I'm not a fan of this, a lot of the stuff was gutted out just to make it SMN 2.0

But yes I do agree with the second tidbit regarding "being excited for something they dislike is being changed to cater to them", but I want to see if they are going to listen to any feedback we can give them by the time the 2nd fanfest comes out, because this does NOT look promising.

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Originally Posted by iiOmarSP

Honestly I really think people are fine with accepting any form of changes Because It's not the 2m meta, and while I can get behind that, it shouldn't be at the cost of removing so much out of it
I played Bard during Cruiserweight and Light Heavyweight and frankly I'm not a fan of this, a lot of the stuff was gutted out just to make it SMN 2.0

But yes I do agree with the second tidbit regarding "being excited for something they dislike is being changed to cater to them", but I want to see if they are going to listen to any feedback we can give them by the time the 2nd fanfest comes out, because this does NOT look promising.

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I hope feedback is listened to because I haven't met a high end player yet who is on board with the sweeping changes that evo mode and 8.0 seem to be bringing and dispite popular belief on the forums high end players as well as casuals are needed in this game. There needs to be balance

Even if the answer is something like reborn jobs staying for those who like complexity and having it do as much damage as evo that it is ACTUALLY a choice.

I believe raid buffs should stay just be on different timers like they were in SB and ShB have 90s BRD, 60s NIN, 120s DNC and let people have the opti of creating parties that compliment each other around that. That is ACTUAL choice.

But so many jobs are losing all their identity for this not be an easy mode. WAR being a bottom tank will lose self heal which is a MASSIVE part of their identity because they aren't taking auto's. Bard lost RNG anf decision making and WHM lost the skill of slidecasting damage and is not a heal bot physical ranged because the answer to glare spam was apparently "make glare instant and have super glare after it!" Yay its the same 111 spam with a new and confusing coat of paint.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

I hope feedback is listened to because I haven't met a high end player yet who is on board with the sweeping changes that evo mode and 8.0 seem to be bringing and dispite popular belief on the forums high end players as well as casuals are needed in this game. There needs to be balance

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Most likely they are going to check social media and whatnot and they will see stuff "Bard is finally playable" and "This made me excited to play it next expansion" and see that most people are happy about it vs the ones who ACTUALLY play the job itself in either high end, or casuals who like it for X reason, when a good number just levels a job to max level and outright not use it until next expansion or during hunt trains.

I don't like Dancer, Monk or Samurai but I don't want the same stuff happening to them.

I do agree with your timer idea since it allows people to come up with different timers, like in ShB (I wasn't there during SB myself) when battle litany used to be 180s.

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Originally Posted by iiOmarSP

Most likely they are going to check social media and whatnot and they will see stuff "Bard is finally playable" and "This made me excited to play it next expansion" and see that most people are happy about it vs the ones who ACTUALLY play the job itself in either high end, or casuals who like it for X reason, when a good number just levels a job to max level and outright not use it until next expansion or during hunt trains.

I don't like Dancer, Monk or Samurai but I don't want the same stuff happening to them.

I do agree with your timer idea since it allows people to come up with different timers, like in ShB (I wasn't there during SB myself) when battle litany used to be 180s.

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Yup! Bard was always playable but people don't realise that not every job has to be for them. I loved the spinning plates of bard with dot timers, song timers and procs. The people who didn't like it have other jobs like SMN for example if they want a ranged or MCH with its static rotation.

180s DRG would be epic! Keep raid buffs but bring back the old timing so you can build a party around those buffs or even as a group decide to hold and sync them all up. That is skill expression.

Getting rid of buffs is because the game is showing its age and they won't fix the buff cap

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Yup! Bard was always playable but people don't realise that not every job has to be for them. I loved the spinning plates of bard with dot timers, song timers and procs. The people who didn't like it have other jobs like SMN for example if they want a ranged or MCH with its static rotation.

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The amount of times I've seen a bard player during duty roulette not refreshing their dots on bosses is just funny, and I do mention to them at least how Iron Jaws work...only to realize some unlock abilities and don't read them.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

I hope feedback is listened to because I haven't met a high end player yet who is on board with the sweeping changes that evo mode and 8.0 seem to be bringing and dispite popular belief on the forums high end players as well as casuals are needed in this game. There needs to be balance

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Low end player here and I too don't want any more jobs gutted like poor SMN was.

so like, does paladin and the new tank (assuming its also a main tank and has counter attacks), if you roulette and get two main tanks, how much dps do they lose?

how long until dual offtank is the norm?

i'm interested in what they do but there are very very reasonable areas of concern.

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Originally Posted by Avenheit

so like, does paladin and the new tank (assuming its also a main tank and has counter attacks), if you roulette and get two main tanks, how much dps do they lose?

how long until dual offtank is the norm?

i'm interested in what they do but there are very very reasonable areas of concern.

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There should not be a designated mt/ot role in that regard.