HOUSING NEEDS TO CHANGE

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

I had someone seriously say they miss the old system of housing and I cannot honestly believe that. You cannot tell me that a system where you had to stand at any given unoccupied small plot for anything between 24-48 hours, constantly clicking in the hopes of purchasing the house, is better than what we have now.
I will gladly take lottery above all else.

At this rate the way people are constantly complaining about "housing" just make instanced housing for the sucks who want that. Leave the wards as is and implement a longer demo timer I GUESS. Cause fact is no one is ever going to be happy with housing. I'm bloody tired of these arguments. Wards are COOL. I love running around my ward, seeing people out, wandering into the open homes seeing how people decorated without them even being there. Removing that would make it bland and basically no one would ever visit. I don't visit anyones island sanctuary, I have no desire to go through that effort, if you do, good for you.

So many people have photo studios that we can just, visit. Without them needing to invite us or needing to be online.

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I think its because they felt like they have more of a degree of control, and far less competition because your competition is against those who have the time and the drive to also click a placard for 16 hours straight. But now, people asked for fair. Everyone now has an equal chance to win a plot, and its accessible to the general player base. Making the 3-4 dedicated players you have to out-click are easier to deal with then 60+ bidders with no way to influence your own odds on that plot.

And that's kinda what I'm saying. Players been complaining about the homogenization of the game for YEARS, would you then go and homogenize another system. "Because everyone can have one now!" No, I don't want to trade a unique housing ward system, so everyone has it but now its even more difficult to visit people and I cant wander into random houses. Because the housing that is available isn't good enough they feel, so gut the whole system, and homogenize it so we all have a plot! No more Wards, No more visiting random players houses, because its going to require friending, or them needing to be online. But its all worth losing any form of uniqueness because everyone should have a plot! And if you don't agree you're a Gatekeeping, bootlicking, S.E simp, not that I'm indirectly asking to homogenize yet another system and you're arguing against that.

Everything needing to be accessible is pushed this game into the rut its trying to dig itself out of. Its sucking the unique out of it.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

I think its because they felt like they have more of a degree of control, and far less competition because your competition is against those who have the time and the drive to also click a placard for 16 hours straight. But now, people asked for fair. Everyone now has an equal chance to win a plot, and its accessible to the general player base. Making the 3-4 dedicated players you have to out-click are easier to deal with then 60+ bidders with no way to influence your own odds on that plot.

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That's a fair point I didn't think of and it makes sense but also I don't miss losing sleep to win a stupid in game plot (potentially, if I out click the bots).
But yeah, I'm just tired of this argument at this point in all honesty.
I get why people dislike the ward system (on congested servers) and I get why they don't just move, but in the same breath, if housing is that important to you then why aren't you trying to solve that issue first and foremost.

I've bought and lost houses, Larges, Mediums, Smalls. I have given up houses to move servers. People want to make it deeper than it truly is.
Yes losing a home sucks, but it's not the end of the world. I've lost my Mist Large & the gil & ALL the furnishings in it because I wasn't able to be online. I knew this and I accepted it. I came back and purchased another home and redecorated.

On alts where I'm not able to have a home, I make do with apartments and they work just fine. Sure more items would be nice, but I can manage.

I dunno I'm talking in circles right now sorry, because it's just never ending. If we advocate for wards we're SE simps. Bro go have your instanced house I don't care, just leave the wards alone. I'm not friending random people to go take photos in their instanced photo studio.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

I dunno I'm talking in circles right now sorry, because it's just never ending. If we advocate for wards we're SE simps. Bro go have your instanced house I don't care, just leave the wards alone. I'm not friending random people to go take photos in their instanced photo studio.

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now see this is the compromise i tried to offer SW, we get our instance plot an they can keep the ward system with the removal of the timer because the demand for ward housing would go down an thus more ward houses would be available an open up for those that like it. but they won't hear it lmao cause they like to keep up the grift notice how he/she/they pivoted directly back to their old talking points after i made compromise XD they don't really care that much they just love to argue with people to feel noticed hahaha and all because they are pety and bitter af an want to keep doom posting and fear mongering its all that keeps them going sheer spite and grift.

Solo Wings/Roll Ryuko's biggest fear: the developers will listen to the screaming majority and abandon further development into the crappy ward hostage holding griefing system.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

Solo Wings/Roll Ryuko's biggest fear: the developers will listen to the screaming majority and abandon further development into the crappy ward hostage holding griefing system.

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Let’s keep this about the system, not about dunking on other posters.

I don’t think either side is arguing in bad faith. There are valid pros and cons to wards and instanced housing, and pretending one side is just “griefing” or “fear-mongering” doesn’t actually move the discussion forward.

My concern with a mixed system isn’t the idea itself, but the implementation. We already know from past features and incidents (Island Sanctuary included) that uneven rules, timers, or limitations would immediately turn into another “fairness” argument, just a different flavour of the same problem.

I personally prefer wards because I value the shared space, random visits, and sense of place they create. Others value guaranteed access more. Both positions are reasonable.

This debate has been going in circles for ages because no solution makes everyone happy. Turning it into personal attacks just guarantees that continues.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

I don’t think either side is arguing in bad faith. There are valid pros and cons to wards and instanced housing, and pretending one side is just “griefing” or “fear-mongering” doesn’t actually move the discussion forward.

that uneven rules, timers, or limitations would immediately turn into another “fairness” argument, just a different flavour of the same problem.

I personally prefer wards because I value the shared space, random visits, and sense of place they create. Others value guaranteed access more. Both positions are reasonable.

This debate has been going in circles for ages because no solution makes everyone happy. Turning it into personal attacks just guarantees that continues.

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oh trust me i'd rather have a sensible debate with you cause you seem alright and not dismissive or taking things personal out of fear or spite.
people have a right to be angry or upset though about this system and thats why they come to these forums to air their grievances and ask for an update/change like you said doesn't mean anyone person is right or wrong but this problem was created by the developers themselves and they need to make some adjustments or changes to meet people in the middle and they have not been doing that which is why people are so heated about it and its why we got things like demolition timers and the lotto system cause alot of people not minority a vast number of people came in and made it a big deal.
and thats what my point is people can make a change happen by continuing to use their voices but unfortunately some hate that as you see here on these forums and probably would if you went too reddit too or other spaces but they can't stop change or progress no matter how much they try.
i'm willing to meet the sensible like you in the middle to find a good compromise and to me what that would be is a seperated housing for others who want to have control over when they play and take breaks, for those who want full control over their own instance and never have to look at an eyesore or bot farmer empty plot with locked doors, or to be harassed by people they would rather not see.

if you're okay with just the aesthetic of having a neighborhood then thats okay don't blame you for that if thats more you flavor of concept then by all means don't let me or anyone stop ya from keeping enjoying that. but if you came here to just derail or make light of or make fun of what others would like or want then expect their to be push back against you. civil debate only happens when both parties can agree on something right? an i think most of us can agree that they way in which they've handle housing distribution and acquirement has been in poor taste and not favorable in the least.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

i think most of us can agree that they way in which they've handle housing distribution and acquirement has been in poor taste and not favorable in the least.

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For me, I’d be happy if wards stayed as they are, but alts (or your main) could have instanced housing. That way the shared neighborhood aesthetic isn’t lost, but people who want personal control for their multiple characters could still have it.

That’s honestly my only real desire here, the rest I’m content leaving as-is. Wards for the community, instances for those who want them, no one stepping on anyone else’s experience. Seems like a reasonable middle ground to me.

But I am not a developer and I do not know the practical implications of such a thing so it might entirely be out of reach and it might not. After all, alts can have Island Sanctuary correct? So who knows.

I have 4 characters on one world, since I'm not spending my fortune on fantasias thank you. But unfortunately, only ONE can have a home and neither can the others share in this home aside from the fact that they are not all after the same fashion. At least if each character CAN have an instanced place, then that allows us to do so.

I would still cling to my wards on main though, besides maybe the random chocobo large in shirogane but ya know. To each their own.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

For me, I’d be happy if wards stayed as they are, but alts (or your main) could have instanced housing. That way the shared neighborhood aesthetic isn’t lost, but people who want personal control for their multiple characters could still have it.

That’s honestly my only real desire here, the rest I’m content leaving as-is. Wards for the community, instances for those who want them, no one stepping on anyone else’s experience. Seems like a reasonable middle ground to me.

But I am not a developer and I do not know the practical implications of such a thing so it might entirely be out of reach and it might not. After all, alts can have Island Sanctuary correct? So who knows.

I have 4 characters on one world, since I'm not spending my fortune on fantasias thank you. But unfortunately, only ONE can have a home and neither can the others share in this home aside from the fact that they are not all after the same fashion. At least if each character CAN have an instanced place, then that allows us to do so.

I would still cling to my wards on main though, besides maybe the random chocobo large in shirogane but ya know. To each their own.

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I find it amusing you're giving the same reasons I have, and yet somehow you're more reasonable. He doesn't understand giving a exact duplicate of housing with 1 set having a demo timer and another isn't is going to cause frustration between players because of the inconsistent application of rules.

But he never addresses that, he just kinda skips over any point and keeps reiterating his own. Its righteousness to the point it cant be questioned, its fanatical.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

I find it amusing you're giving the same reasons I have, and yet somehow you're more reasonable. He doesn't understand giving a exact duplicate of housing with 1 set having a demo timer and another isn't is going to cause frustration between players because of the inconsistent application of rules.

But he never addresses that, he just kinda skips over any point and keeps reiterating his own. Its righteousness to the point it cant be questioned, its fanatical.

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Because it's no longer about the system, it's personal.

And that's why I stated that we should keep this about the system, not about dunking on other posters.

I completely understand that the inconsistent application of rules will cause an uproar even more than there already is, and that's why I am also saying that I don't know how they would fix this. Despite suggestions.

If they eliminate demo timers, people will be mad they can't get homes in wards.
If they keep demo timers and don't have the same for instanced, people will be mad.

What the solution to THIS would be I don't know.

Keep wards = Good and bad
Add instanced = Good and bad

Two sides of the same coin.

And I have to add that I personally feel if you feel so deeply that you deserve a house, then go where a house is available. Whether it be Small Medium or Large.
Don't sit on your server, complaining it's too full, because there are servers that are not. Is this the ideal solution? No. It's not. Because people are established in their FCs and worlds. I get that. In fact I understand that very well as someone who moved from Aether to Primal to Materia and to Chaos, but I had to decide what my priorities were.

It's all good and well we keep yelling that housing needs to change, but what would be the ultimate solution to this where everyone is happy? I've yet to see this because in my very honest opinion, I don't think there is one true and good solution for this at this point. And both sides keep yapping hating on each other instead of saying hold up we kinda have a common goal here but we don't have an actual solution.

Wards should never have existed if they'd want the just make everything instanced solution, but alas, wards did exist first and now we are at a crossroads where people are going to be mad regardless of what happens.