SMN is now the least popular caster again barely one expansion after its rework

Pretty much everyone said something along these lines already, but since I played SMN from 2.0 all the way until switching to PCT with 7.0, I feel like I need to just...restate them all again, I guess.

The problem isn't with the rework in 6.0, it's that they claimed the reason for the complete overhaul was to give it more room to grow in future expansions, then proceeded to add absolutely nothing to it in 7.0 but another Bahamut. At the time of the rework, I was very happy to finally be rid of Summoner just being a Warlock from WoW, and I still think it's more like a Summoner should be than it was the whole time leading up to that. The main issues it had at that time - not as many actions, still just the same five summons they had before, Carbuncle just kind of being there and not doing anything - all still exist after 7.0 despite many things they could have done to fill in the gaps.

Like a lot of other people, I think the easiest thing, maybe even the "bare minimum" now, would be to put the other three elemental summons in and have them rotate along with Bahamut and Phoenix according to their aspects (Ifrit/Garuda/Ramuh after Phoenix, Titan/Leviathan/Shiva after Bahamut). If they really want to keep the other "demi" summon, I think it should have been another higher-tier one instead of a Bahamut reskin, and then they could either give access to any three of the other six after it, or add another set to go after it. Additionally, they should have fixed the fact that Summoner has very few actions by adding more that change along with every summon or possibly more oGCDs that are tied to Carbuncle instead of just having them come directly from the PC.

SMN and BLM right now have the same problems for me - they're less fun versions of RDM and PCT, jobs that actually get to cast spells of all the traditional elements and match up to what people expect from them in a Final Fantasy game.

The problem with this is that it's an assumption that BLM was reworked because it was the least popular. We don't know if that's why or if that's the only reason why.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

The problem with this is that it's an assumption that BLM was reworked because it was the least popular. We don't know if that's why or if that's the only reason why.

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They stated the reason. It’s cast times we’re interfering with combat design.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

They stated the reason. It’s cast times we’re interfering with combat design.

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Yet BLM was not the least mobile class in the game

And their potency tweaks on PCT made new PCT less mobile than old BLM

When they can’t even apply their own balancing “logic” internally across all the classes it just comes off as fake and vapid

Call it irony or morbid curiosity, but I am actually looking forward to SMN 8.0 rework. Really curious how they're going to change this job (again). Will they axed solar bahamut I wonder.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

A major problem I have with SMN is how bound it is to the two minute rotation. It's much worse than other jobs imo, at least other jobs can delay and realign with burst, but SMN is just stuck once it starts unless you want to spam Ruin 3 a lot.

Take Byakko Unreal, initial burst is no problem, 2 minute into the fight it's also ok, but after that you're screwed. around 2:30 into the fight you enter the fall phase and it takes around 90 seconds, so that would put you at the 4 minute mark and ready for burst. The problem is that you used Solar Bahamut at the 2 minute mark, didn't use Phoenix on cooldown, so now your 2 minute burst for the rest of the fight will be Bahamut/Phoenix instead of the stronger Solar Bahamut. Unless you want to spam Ruin 3 to align, you're stuck. Most/all other jobs don't have this problem as their cooldowns will be ready after the fall phase.

Or take Jeuno, unless you want to spam Ruin 3 (or AoE) on the first pack, you have to use Solar since most of the SMN kit is locked behind the Demis, and then you again drift on the boss.

The job is so railroaded on the 2 minute burst rotation that it breaks when the content doesn't align with it, especially if you're stuck on Bahamut/Phoenix and can't activate it on cooldown.

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This is the actual problem with SMN and, worst of all, always has been. The one thing that was most baffling about the rework is how, of all things to be adressed, the fact SMN was a railroaded class whose rotation would grind to a halt with any downtime was the one thing they never deemed fit to fix. This is worsened taking into account the fact that they had just decided to shift to the 2-min meta for everyone (except BLM) just an expansion ago.

Why has SMN not gotten any solution? Easy. Because PCT took it with it how Motifs cooldowns work and how they're completely detached from each other. Just imagine the motifs only it's Gemstone summons instead of Creature motifs, Bahamut instead of Hammer Motif and Phoenix instead of Landscape.

For all the misgivings about PCT damage, the job was relatively well designed compared to the rest (until SE decided to do a shoddy job with the potency tweaks). Which only make one wonder... why couldn't they keep SMN to that level of quality?

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

They stated the reason. It’s cast times we’re interfering with combat design.

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Honestly, I find their reasoning a bit bad...

BLM had a good amount of mobility, it just required some skill to do it effectively.. Which is OK in a video game, now they've just had it as effortless as humanly possible whilst also removing many of the fail states.

This is why they are never going to accomplish anything because any given implementation they go for... They always have to take something away from other classes.. "Ah we've gone with new fight design, so now we have to neuter part of a job kit"

To be fair, Red Mage's popularity in high end content is massively inflated because of their rez. If they lost it, they would be right at the bottom, too.

More than half the players in savage picked SMN because it was the path of least resistance (and offered a raise). The only two other options were RDM that just asked to cough blood for the same output, and BLM that offered better output, but at the cost of a lot of effort too. Same thing for DNC in the rphys role, and it didn't even outperform the two others. It's just the path of least resistance.

Now that BLM has been simplified to death and we also have PCT that offers an easier solution, it only makes sense that a lot of SMN players moved over because the requirements for a better output and performance weren't that insurmountable anymore.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

To be fair, Red Mage's popularity in high end content is massively inflated because of their rez. If they lost it, they would be right at the bottom, too.

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I don't think they would be at the bottom because they do decent damage and have good support skills even without the raise, but it will be a lot less popular during progs for sure. When you do re-clears, nobody cares about raises that much since you aren't supposed to die anyway.