Suggestion:
Leave say 80% of it as is... (i.e. you can enter "X" row and summon your retainer for item management, ect...)
When I try entering the MWs give me a similar menu.
Then when I select Item Search I am given the option to search as it's setup now OR (improvement) type an item name, link an item, whatever...
Then I see that item, and/or related items, from whoever.
(change) Give me the ability to select any individual retainer in that menu and allow me to view that retainers items.
Next step --> buy whatever I want from them (same as it is now, but not in an instance).
Rinse / Repeat.
AH+MW
IMO you can only get rid of RMT by making it a private server game, or solo play. They can farm as we can farm. Doesn't matter if its questing, grinding, looting, ect.... They can sell as we can sell. Doesn't matter if its from shout chat only, or from ebay.
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04-21-2011, 02:47 AMLazyKz
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04-21-2011, 07:22 AMSmokie23
with the addition of search function for the wards...what is the difference between AH and MW??
1) you have to travel to the retainer and ward selling the specific item.
2) Price history?? (as most AH have some sort of price listing for previous buys)
So, it basically boils down to is "I want to know the going rate for a specific item so add a AH"?? either that or "I'm to lazy to travel to the ward".
Personally I think leave the AH to FFXI. The MW worked fine for me since the release. I have had no trouble in finding what I needed nor did I have a problem selling what I wanted. The problem comes down to "How do I know how much this is worth and how much am I suppose to sell it for". Well...it doesn't really matter what other people price their goods at.
With a AH the price of goods is set by supply and demand, a steady price throughout all of the region. With MW you have much more range of price, the price of goods is set by the PLAYER not by supply and demand, player X feels cotton cowl is worth 20k and player Z says 5k. The buyer is now the one that decides "how much does this item mean to me...how much would I pay...what can I find it for...who can I talk to obtain this item" not "ok do I have 5k for this to buy from AH". I think market transactions and finding what you need should be more player involved rather that just going to the AH to buy what you need. Dont get me wrong with MW supply and demand still play a role but not nearly to the extent of setting the price of goods. Even with the recent search function it starts to stray away from this system and more geared towards the AH system. Not only that the idea of a player becoming a realistic vendor becomes obsolete because of AH. With MW your able to setup shop with your prices and still have a fair chance at selling what is needed...not setup shop with prices set by AH. I know its somewhat like 'bazaars' in FFXI but even with the player bazaars prices were still set by AH prices...not what a player thinks or feels the item is worth.
If you do implement AH then it becomes like every other game out there...camp at the AH window...very little player mingling and very little player to player/retainer involvement and it also makes the whole idea of even having retainers obsolete. It is a MMO after all.
BTW Happy 420 Everybody :o -
04-21-2011, 01:52 PMLazyKzSeriously? I hear almost zero player to player trading. FFXI was always busy in Jeuno with trade chatting... WOW has thier own trade chat channel...Quote:
"how much does this item mean to me...how much would I pay...what can I find it for...who can I talk to obtain this item" not "ok do I have 5k for this to buy from AH". I think market transactions and finding what you need should be more player involved rather that just going to the AH to buy what you need.
And price set by demand is exactly whats happening in the wards. Just 10x slower. You gotta be pretty stoned to buy the 20k cotton cowl with one up for 5k.
I feel right now the anti-AH peeps are fussin because the gil input/output is not balanced. Just wait until square fixes this and 70% of us become broke... now the cheapest avalible, or fastest way to sell wont sound so bad. -
04-22-2011, 12:40 AMSmokie23I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Player X and Z have the choice to sell their goods at whatever price they feel fit, but with the search function that way is gone. Like I said even with the search function it becomes more AH style orientated. With the search function that eliminates MW browsing...which makes the freedom of price setting obsolete. At this stage they mine as well go all the way and put in a AH window and get rid of retainers and MW all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyKz
Me personally i'm geared toward change when it comes to a new game, so i'm liking the MW system. But if AH is what will bring this game back to life then I don't really care what SE has to do to bring players back. Coming back after a couple months (due to RL issues) the game is...almost dead. Even with free trial still on! This makes me worry where the game is heading but after reading the last few months updates, letters from producers and seeing drastic in house changes on SE end...I still have high hopes for the game.
At least this new team has the balls to say "ok we fu**ed up...we see whats wrong and we hear the community" -
04-22-2011, 03:15 AMLazyKzOk, I'm on board now... and I agree. I'm not upset they tried it either, change is the best and boldest move they can make. This is the most anti-wow MMO released that I know about I am glad for it. I'm also very curious about where it's heading because your right, the new team seems much better and more able. But how long can this last before the CEOs pull the plug....Quote:
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Player X and Z have the choice to sell their goods at whatever price they feel fit, but with the search function that way is gone. Like I said even with the search function it becomes more AH style orientated. With the search function that eliminates MW browsing...which makes the freedom of price setting obsolete. At this stage they mine as well go all the way and put in a AH window and get rid of retainers and MW all together.
Me personally i'm geared toward change when it comes to a new game, so i'm liking the MW system. But if AH is what will bring this game back to life then I don't really care what SE has to do to bring players back. Coming back after a couple months (due to RL issues) the game is...almost dead. Even with free trial still on! This makes me worry where the game is heading but after reading the last few months updates, letters from producers and seeing drastic in house changes on SE end...I still have high hopes for the game.
At least this new team has the balls to say "ok we fu**ed up...we see whats wrong and we hear the community"
The MW system does make for a competitive market in terms of you have more responsibility (benchmarking, data collecting, ect...) to becoming successful, but it just may be a little rough on the general MMO community. -
04-22-2011, 03:19 AMSmokie23Well...I suggested something else in a thread "AH + Player Markets??"...read that and tell me what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyKz
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04-22-2011, 07:02 AMBingo
Staying away from sales history is simply enforcing a minimum level of ignorance, and that is a crappy way of limiting players. In a truly-player based economy, it will be hard to make money. That is the only way money can be actually valuable.
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04-23-2011, 04:53 PMGreyWolfHmmm.... I don't recally having any player to player mingling while going through retainers... and especially no player to retainer mingling. i've tried to mingle with one and man it was a no go >.>; at least I guess I didn't get rejected :D but no mingling D: in any case I'd prefer a buy/sell system even if like an auction house if not oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Smokie23
I don't know about you or anyone else but i'd rather buy the cheapest same item from anyone rather than having to select from 5k or 10k for the same item I don't really want to have to use up more time looking for the item/price i'm looking for. As for the AH you can certainly price your items at 10k vs 5k... just whether you get to sell yours first or not is a different story or whether you want yours sold first. -
04-25-2011, 06:30 AMRemnantWolf
I actually like the Market Wards (I know that now you have to call me an idiot or a troll but it's true). I like how personal they are.
But I do think that there is a good compromise.
I like making my own equipment (when I can) but finding the materials is hard many times so an AH would be a nice way to buy stacked items and materials. It's quick easy and gets parts moving to the crafters.
But also with the new talk about the future of the crafting system and the ways that crafters can personalize armor I feel that a more personal market is a better choice. People can get to know what retainers sell armors and weapons that are specailized the way they like. It becomes personal as people are able to find who sells what they like. -
04-25-2011, 06:39 AMEldaena
Maybe it would make the Market Wards better if they had one tab on each retainer for selling items, and one tab on each retainer for purchasing items. You could specifiy what item you want, how many, and how much you are willing to pay (up to 10 items, just like the selling tab.) We then can have the market ward's search feature not only search for what people are selling, but also what they are buying. This could be a reasonably good compromise for everyone. (Sorry if anyone else posted an idea like this, I'm not quite finished reading the whole thread.)
(I know people can buy items through their retainers, but it requires having one of those items in the first place and takes up a selling slot. So I'm suggesting we have 10 spaces for selling, and 10 spaces for purchasing on each of our retainers. Then a way to choose the item you want to buy regardless if you own one of those items now. Does this make sense?)