EW Relic Grind is just a streamlined version of ARR/HW Grind

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Originally Posted by Striker44

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“Making your own relic step” with the least efficient way to grind tomestones isn’t content I’ll say that again, and how am I making her point stronger, I offered 9 ways I’d like to grind a relic considering the prevailing argument around this relic is “do it yourself”, she offered one of those 9 ways as a possibility despite it being so inefficient you would literally have to be forcing yourself to do it at the expense of any other route and then completely ignored the other 8

The anima relics had steps in which you had 8 different options for progressing a particular step and that pulled from all the games content, using roulette tomes as a patchwork “see you can do whatever you want” isn’t content

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You... could also buy Lootboxes. Which was the sole thing the OW1 "levels" gave. It was literally a just counter of how many lootboxes you'd gotten in-game without weekly Endorsement rewards, but those Levels' reward was likewise purchasable with real money then, just like the result of BP "Levels" can be purchased with real money now.

I preferred the OW1 model, but they're identically illusory in terms of any indication of 'progression'. The main difference is simply that you tended to get drab generic rewards 85% of the time and cooler thematic FOMO event rewards 15% of the time before, and the availability of generalist skins has since declined far more than the event skins (BPs being those FOMO events now) have increased.


Those levels still exist, though? They're just Season-specific.

Or does Savage progression not exist simply because it's effectively reset each new 'season' (Savage tier)?

They're the same. I say this as someone who played since Beta and preferred OW1. OW2 has the same degree of (or, maintains the same lack of) progression that OW1 had. It was purely cosmetic then, and it's purely cosmetic now; it was --if pure cosmetics could ever warrant the term-- just as 'pay to win' in terms that progression back in OW1 as it is now in OW2.

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You could not buy levels, that was second most prominent indicator of you as a player, right after your rank. There was much better form of progression for "f2p" players, because you could get theoretically anything. In OW2, getting skins as f2p is chore and it is impossible to keep up, no matter how much you play. So even if you consider BP as a meaningful progression, this progression is limited to people who bought it (unless you're satisfied with the free leftovers in BP). And yes, it's all illusory, it makes you think you're progressing something when you're not, it's just like EW relics, but at least in OW1's case, it gave a decent illusion of progress. Same cannot be said about OW2 or EW relics.

And obviously it's all cosmetic, what else do you imagine OW could give you?

In the end, OW1 progression isn't masterpiece, but it's still miles ahead of it's pathetic "sequel".

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Originally Posted by Deo14

You could not buy levels, that was second most prominent indicator of you as a player, right after your rank.

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But what was actually being progressed? Your collection of skins. Which, in OW1, you could buy with real money directly or via lootboxes.

We don't look at an XIV raider and think, "Ahh, yes, their hours-played is their real progression, not his ilvl," do we?

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In the end, OW1 progression isn't masterpiece, but it's still miles ahead of it's pathetic "sequel".

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On the whole, agreed. But both allowed you to speed your way towards their actual rewards / progression via direct payment. Neither was a closed economy.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

But what was actually being progressed? Your collection of skins. Which, in OW1, you could buy with real money directly or via lootboxes.

We don't look at an XIV raider and think, "Ahh, yes, their hours-played is their real progression, not his ilvl," do we?


On the whole, agreed. But both allowed you to speed your way towards their actual rewards / progression via direct payment. Neither was a closed economy.

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Your level was being progressed, that by itself is a valuable stat. If you went over some threshold, color of your portrait changed and so on. I could find you some very old reddit posts from early OW1, where people were really satisfied with this simple element and were excited to get these better portraits. You always saw level and player's portraits in the tab screen, whenever you were loading it, etc. That, by itself, is a decent progression, because games like OW simply cannot have much more than this and some cosmetics.

Nothing meaningful was, in essence, being progressed, you're right about that, but what is being progressed in here? You work towards your gear, and in 8 months, you can throw it in a trash. Way you get glam here is different than in OW, but in essence, you just do X, and skin unlocks for you. You get achievements, but you cannot flex your achievement points. Progression is generally just an illusion, just a value game gives to our account for doing X or Y. Only real progression is you getting better, that's about it.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

“Making your own relic step” with the least efficient way to grind tomestones isn’t content I’ll say that again, and how am I making her point stronger, I offered 9 ways I’d like to grind a relic considering the prevailing argument around this relic is “do it yourself”, she offered one of those 9 ways as a possibility despite it being so inefficient you would literally have to be forcing yourself to do it at the expense of any other route and then completely ignored the other 8

The anima relics had steps in which you had 8 different options for progressing a particular step and that pulled from all the games content, using roulette tomes as a patchwork “see you can do whatever you want” isn’t content

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So let's look at the ways you offered:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What if I want to earn my relic doing eureka, what about POTD, ocean fishing, PVP, gathering, crafting, beast tribes, variant dungeons, Bozja

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Eureka is the only way to make progress on the Stormblood relic. It would make no sense to tie a second relic to it (not to mention it would create an even larger mess of items in a player's bags than the first one did - I've still got my chocobo saddlebag filled with crystals, etc. I'll never use and keep forgetting to discard).

PotD is already an option for at least one stage of the Bozja weapon (I never finished mine so I don't know if it could be used for multiple stages). If you're thinking of Deep Dungeon in general, Eureka Orthos will reward Causality if you're using a level 90 job. There's an option for you.

Ocean fishing is a gathering activity. Gathering and crafting now have their own relic tools to work on. It makes little sense to use them to earn a relic weapon (even if it had been done in the past) when players now have the relic tools to get.

PvP - has PvP ever been a method for getting a relic weapon completed? I don't PvP so I would automatically tune it out if it was offered as an option. That said, I personally wouldn't have objections if PvP was an option as long as players had non-PvP options to choose.

Tribal quests - unfortunately, Arkasodara rewards Comedy when done on a level 90 job. Even if it was Causality instead of Comedy, it would end up replacing Variant as your least efficient option so it surprises me you'd bring it up.

Bozja - like Eureka, it already has a relic weapon heavily tied to it. It would make no sense to add a second.

To me, the only one out of your list that would make sense to add as an option is PvP. Adding current expansion FATEs could also be an option if they can solve the problems seen with the FATE farming in the early stages of the Resistance weapons.

In general, it makes more sense to me that level cap content would be the preferred source when working on relics. Lower level content frequently had its own role in other relics.

If players want to pursue the most efficient option simply because it's the most efficient instead of because they actually enjoy the content, that's their choice. Nothing says you have to choose the same. Getting a relic isn't a race.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So let's look at the ways you offered:


Eureka is the only way to make progress on the Stormblood relic. It would make no sense to tie a second relic to it (not to mention it would create an even larger mess of items in a player's bags than the first one did - I've still got my chocobo saddlebag filled with crystals, etc. I'll never use and keep forgetting to discard).

PotD is already an option for at least one stage of the Bozja weapon (I never finished mine so I don't know if it could be used for multiple stages). If you're thinking of Deep Dungeon in general, Eureka Orthos will reward Causality if you're using a level 90 job. There's an option for you.

Ocean fishing is a gathering activity. Gathering and crafting now have their own relic tools to work on. It makes little sense to use them to earn a relic weapon (even if it had been done in the past) when players now have the relic tools to get.

PvP - has PvP ever been a method for getting a relic weapon completed? I don't PvP so I would automatically tune it out if it was offered as an option. That said, I personally wouldn't have objections if PvP was an option as long as players had non-PvP options to choose.

Tribal quests - unfortunately, Arkasodara rewards Comedy when done on a level 90 job. Even if it was Causality instead of Comedy, it would end up replacing Variant as your least efficient option so it surprises me you'd bring it up.

Bozja - like Eureka, it already has a relic weapon heavily tied to it. It would make no sense to add a second.

To me, the only one out of your list that would make sense to add as an option is PvP. Adding current expansion FATEs could also be an option if they can solve the problems seen with the FATE farming in the early stages of the Resistance weapons.

In general, it makes more sense to me that level cap content would be the preferred source when working on relics. Lower level content frequently had its own role in other relics.

If players want to pursue the most efficient option simply because it's the most efficient instead of because they actually enjoy the content, that's their choice. Nothing says you have to choose the same. Getting a relic isn't a race.

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You heard it here first guys, anytime a method has been used by a previous relic it can no longer be used for a current relic
Your current options for completing this relic now consist of……….variant dungeons

But seriously who cares if a previous relic has used a method, the older relics didn’t give a crap that the even older relics had already used these methods, if they want to sell this relic as “achieve it your way” then give us more than roulettes

The problem with Relics in FF14 is the ethos behind them. As they are, relics effectively serve as semi-disposable 'catchup' gear, whereas other games would maybe have them as prestigious rewards for a demonstration of significant skill (Ultimate Weapons take their place here).

If you want to have them function as 'catchup' gear, then what's the point in locking them behind an obnoxious grind? People will just ignore the content and find other ways to get weapons, and making lower-tier relics better than Savage loot results in the same issues as WoW, with mandatory grinds purely for the sake of it. And if you want them to be 'prestigious', then you'll have to make them worth the grind and eternally relevant for gameplay purposes, which this game isn't built around.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

The problem with Relics in FF14 is the ethos behind them. As they are, relics effectively serve as semi-disposable 'catchup' gear, whereas other games would maybe have them as prestigious rewards for a demonstration of significant skill (Ultimate Weapons take their place here).

If you want to have them function as 'catchup' gear, then what's the point in locking them behind an obnoxious grind? People will just ignore the content and find other ways to get weapons, and making lower-tier relics better than Savage loot results in the same issues as WoW, with mandatory grinds purely for the sake of it. And if you want them to be 'prestigious', then you'll have to make them worth the grind and eternally relevant for gameplay purposes, which this game isn't built around.

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The relics used to have prestige attached because the grinds were just that long and requires skills from wide swaths of the game, sure it’s not comparable to the prestige of the ultimate weapons but people used to appreciate when you could do a relic on patch because they were long grinds most people weren’t willing to commit to

Seeing someone have a finished first step anima weapon on patch indiciating they either did the grinding for the 18 Fate rewards (which had a disgustingly low drop rate) or turned in a complete zeta relic they completed in ARR was a point you kinda just went “wow they out a lot of effort into grinding that relic”

As for use beyond the current patch there is a reason why people continue to collect anima relics, 14 maintains their use via glam, which is fine

My take on the relics so far is, honestly, I miss having all of my friends get on and work together to get their weapons. That's it really. Now that every step so far is "1500 tomes" they just log in for the new relic step, and then log off. :(

I just want the "everyone go out and do the thing" feeling back to relics.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You heard it here first guys, anytime a method has been used by a previous relic it can no longer be used for a current relic
Your current options for completing this relic now consist of……….variant dungeons

But seriously who cares if a previous relic has used a method, the older relics didn’t give a crap that the even older relics had already used these methods, if they want to sell this relic as “achieve it your way” then give us more than roulettes

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Well, first, that's not what he said. Second, this entire discussion is about the plethora of ways besides roulettes that you can use to achieve these relics your way. What we have here is the definition of a bad-faith poster.