Crystalline Conflict Tier List (with deep maths!)

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Originally Posted by Myrha_Lhlalheva

Hey now, I accepted that that was a mistake and rectified it. At least I made any effort at all to put out information, and people are bound to make mistakes. If everyone else on the planet is such a BRD genius and BRD is such an amazing job, then where are all the high-ranking BRD gods? Where are they? Nobody seems to want to answer that question.

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They're at CCRC finals, aka Ellie Meeps. Not many of the "god" players are playing this season, which is why you're able to climb so high rn. :skull: Throughout the entire thread you've made it abundantly clear you barely understand the mode you even play.

Just because you're not good at a job doesn't mean the job is bad.

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Originally Posted by MNKabuser

They're at CCRC finals, aka Ellie Meeps. Not many of the "god" players are playing this season, which is why you're able to climb so high rn. :skull: Throughout the entire thread you've made it abundantly clear you barely understand the mode you even play.

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So all the good players of the best ranged job are just conveniently retired this season, while DRG and MNK and etc players have decided to keep playing for no particular reason huh.

Let's have a discussion on the points you think are so incorrect? Instead of a bunch of "you're wrong and your job is very good actually" with no further elaboration. "You do your burst wrong," when there are 4 damaging buttons with very clear usage conditions, without saying what the magical correct burst is.

It's not helpful to anyone if you just remain all cliquish with your viewpoint and only descend from your pantheon to ridicule. If I "barely understand the mode" then everyone I've passed or do well against must have a negative understanding or something, right? If the argument is that the job is strong in fully coordinated play, then I think anything can be strong with full coordination. Teamwork and comms go a long way. But on paper, there are numerical disadvantages that exist in the game, and pretending that there aren't solely on the grounds of personal exp/bias is a bit disingenuous, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Myrha_Lhlalheva

So all the good players of the best ranged job are just conveniently retired this season, while DRG and MNK and etc players have decided to keep playing for no particular reason huh.

Let's have a discussion on the points you think are so incorrect? Instead of a bunch of "you're wrong and your job is very good actually" with no further elaboration. "You do your burst wrong," when there are 4 damaging buttons with very clear usage conditions, without saying what the magical correct burst is.

It's not helpful to anyone if you just remain all cliquish with your viewpoint and only descend from your pantheon to ridicule. If I "barely understand the mode" then everyone I've passed or do well against must have a negative understanding or something, right? If the argument is that the job is strong in fully coordinated play, then I think anything can be strong with full coordination. Teamwork and comms go a long way. But on paper, there are numerical disadvantages that exist in the game, and pretending that there aren't solely on the grounds of personal exp/bias is a bit disingenuous, isn't it?

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Notice that I said "many" while you replied back with "all", that's because there is still some good players playing Ranked but hardly any compared to the previous seasons because they're all tired of the mode or busy with LP.
People also already told you about BRDs burst, and how you aren't doing it correctly, and some of the ones telling you that have been in games with you. :)
You've been carried to where you are on the board, because we've seen how you play just sitting in the back turreting on BRD not really doing much.

As for LP, there is a reason certain jobs shine better in it, because there is Voice Comms, where people can actively relay more detailed info to eachother than quick chats.
So yes, a lot of jobs are going to do better in LP than Solo Q.

Lots of Bronz CC players posting as if they know anything...

Thank you for the tierlist, playing pvp and CC since its revamp I cannot disagree with this tier list, right now I haven't played as much CC as I want to, but I still play on the CCR held every Thursday by the PVP Revival discord.

My thoughts on job classes that I play.
People find White Mage to be too powerful but all white mage has is their LB and their polymorph, once they use that, they are easy pickings. I'm a paladin main, and honestly, the Paladin is in the correct place due to a lack of communication with the teammates in the game its very difficult for Paladins to coordinate covers and use defensive skills. If people would pot while the paladin has a cover they would easily be on the same tier as Warrior.

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Originally Posted by Guntank81

Lots of Bronz CC players posting as if they know anything...

Thank you for the tierlist, playing pvp and CC since its revamp I cannot disagree with this tier list, right now I haven't played as much CC as I want to, but I still play on the CCR held every Thursday by the PVP Revival discord.

My thoughts on job classes that I play.
People find White Mage to be too powerful but all white mage has is their LB and their polymorph, once they use that, they are easy pickings. I'm a paladin main, and honestly, the Paladin is in the correct place due to a lack of communication with the teammates in the game its very difficult for Paladins to coordinate covers and use defensive skills. If people would pot while the paladin has a cover they would easily be on the same tier as Warrior.

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This u?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...625_170657.jpg

Most of the people posting are top 30s and top 10s

Love the concept of using a Radar Graph for this! What app or software did you use?

It would be great to see people post their own versions~

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Originally Posted by MNKabuser

Notice that I said "many" while you replied back with "all", that's because there is still some good players playing Ranked but hardly any compared to the previous seasons because they're all tired of the mode or busy with LP.
People also already told you about BRDs burst, and how you aren't doing it correctly, and some of the ones telling you that have been in games with you. :)
You've been carried to where you are on the board, because we've seen how you play just sitting in the back turreting on BRD not really doing much.

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The only person in this thread who's directly addressed BRD combo at all just said that I hadn't included 1x Blast Arrow, which I acknowledged as correct. At this point, I could say that full stack Empyreal Arrow is less than a Recuperate and you'd say I'm wrong because somehow 13230 > 15000. BRD requires the entire kitchen sink to do in single-target what DRG can do in AoE with 3 buttons, and no amount of skill is going to change that.

You're telling me that the only job in the game that is actively rewarded for being at range and actively punished for gap closing is being played incorrectly when it prioritizes ranged contribution? What's next? Some PLD player doesn't deserve their rank because all they do is save people's lives with Guardian? I play the Crystal when there's enough space to do so, and I'm not sitting in melee range for no reason when the brawl is close to home. It's not like I'm never closing the gap to Nocturne or Repelling--the Nocturne range nerf was definitely an adjustment, but it's an adjustment that I've made. If you're basing your perception of me off experiences from 3 seasons ago, then maybe I'd like to put it to you that people can grow and improve.

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Originally Posted by BrianRicardo

Love the concept of using a Radar Graph for this! What app or software did you use?

It would be great to see people post their own versions~

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Thank you for the work you do in the community, and thank you for not coming here for the sole purpose of dunking on me.

This is the generator I used to create the radar charts--you can specify the names of the criteria, how many criteria there are, and the scale of the graph. It only generates red charts though, so I just had to do some color overlays in Photoshop.
https://chachart.net/radar?lang=en

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Originally Posted by Myrha_Lhlalheva

But on paper, there are numerical disadvantages that exist in the game, and pretending that there aren't solely on the grounds of personal exp/bias is a bit disingenuous, isn't it?

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BRD burst is one of the best burst in the game because it is nearly instant, hard to react to the silence, requires almost no setup, is ranged, has a 20s cooldown, inherently has damage amps tied to it, and to top it all off the only conditional requirement is that you hold at least two empyreal arrows. BRD is valued as a job for it's damage amp, it's ability to save teammates with Wardens, it's oppressive burst, and the ability to cheat the LB economy. Combined with the fact that repelling shot makes the job extremely slippery against melees - the job is fantastic. To claim that it's not good purely because of numbers on the tooltip and not properly accounting for metrics like LB generation, average availability, team damage amps is also disingenuous.

Again, according to your tier list, PLD has equivalent burst despite not accounting for the fact that Atonement has a full second of animation delay before the damage comes out and despite requiring the PLD to use Sheltron offensively and sacrificing at least 20k eHP.

Similarly, RPR's burst is calculated under the assumption that they will have 8 stacks of Plentiful Harvest at any given point. Because Plentiful Harvest has a 60s CD, the RPR can only naturally generate 4 stacks through Soul Slice (assuming 100% uptime), which implies that every minute, the RPR's team is getting 4 kills - aka wiping the enemy team.

It is good you calculated burst taking into account having LB and not having LB - but Plentiful Harvest is a 1 minute cooldown which is the same as some LBs. Without Plentiful (which will comprise more than 80% of average RPR gameplay), RPR's STB is so atrociously bad the STB variance is not well accounted for at all. On top of all of all these caveats of uptime and average case stacks, the cherry on top of these STB calculations is assuming that players will not guard or recuperate damage from taken stacking Death Warrant - a delayed nuke that takes 7s to go off.

Again, it is good to average cases of LB/no LB because you are accounting for resources, but this also operates under the assumption that the value of damage is linear - as an extreme example, 60k damage may be literally twice as much damage as 30k - but 60k damage one shots most jobs. The fact that it gets a kill means it's unquantifiably more valuable. So if you average those two numbers to get 45k - which is still a lot - you lose the nuance because 45k doesn't one shot anymore. 16k is a huge breakpoint in burst because it means the damage will require 1 extra recup to survive it. That's why averaging White Shift and Black Shift damage on RDM shouldn't be accounted for in STB - it doesn't account for how lethal Black Shift damage is in the correct situation. It's also why losing 4k damage on Pressure Points for MNK was actually a significant nerf - it pushed the Enlightenment Meteo OTK combo out of lethal range for solo kills, and reduced the consistency of killing targets without help from a teammate significantly.