Please add item level sync to older trials.

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Originally Posted by technole

Some people tend to forget content in MMOs have a shelf life. You aren't there when it was hot, it will never be the same next expansion. It becomes a never ending treadmill even with item level.

Even if you were do a lot of 2013 ARR content as minimum ilevel and no echo will not replicate the original experience because of so many skill changes and potency over time. Some skills are added, deleted, and replaced. Same ordeal with older ultimates despite the capped +5 item sync from release to cover no-materia downsync, they still do get slightly easier. Skills from level 70-80 just aren't the same as they were.

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The shelf life argument makes sense for fights like Thordan (which is more cutscene than fight at this point) or even Shinryu, considering many jobs went through significant changes and we had a big stat squish with Endwalker. But this thread started with the final 6.0 fight as example, all we got since then is better gear and minor tweaks like potency changes. This content is far from anything one would consider "dated" and a very big part for a story arch that technically started with 1.0 over 10 years ago. This fight should feel impactful for new players, it shouldn't require me to deliberately hold back with DPS just so the fight is remotely as impactful to them like it was for me during pre-order.

Apart from this: It *is* an MMORPG and as much as many people who have been with us for a while like to dismiss it, new people sign up every day and experience the MSQ for the first time. They shouldn't be punished for not being able to play this game ten years ago and on every release day/patch day since. Especially not in a game that says "everyone can play it at their own pace" and "no content is truly obsolete" as part of their unique selling point. If content being dated is making the MSQ experience disappointing in a story heavy game from a story heavy franchise, it's on the devs to do something against it. And considering they already did this with dungeons with item level sync and lately also some reworks, I really don't see why they shouldn't do this with trials either. At least for MSQ relevant trials like Thordan, Seat of Sacrifice or Endsinger. (I don't really mind not seeing all phases of the Four Lords trials or the Warring Triad, because they are not MSQ, but the more the merrier.)

I think a potency change with the bosses and adjusting their Hit Points would help a lot to adjust what has happened with the jobs and ilvl stats.

Maybe change and adjust it once every new expansion because yes the game wasn't the same back then.

https://i.imgur.com/btdtmxa.png

For real, wtf is this. I had 70% more HP than other tank, why is this still a thing. There just isn't any justification for not syncing trials, even that poor PLD who had intended ilvl could survive with 7 vuln stacks (it was quite a spectacle to watch him, poor guy thought he figured out the planets after like 4th vuln stack, then it added fatalism and knockback). We had 3 people with intended ilvl, so we at least got to listen to vocals, which started at 8%, and fight ended when 2nd verse started.

Would be nice if devs finally said something about this.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

https://i.imgur.com/btdtmxa.png

For real, wtf is this. I had 70% more HP than other tank, why is this still a thing. There just isn't any justification for not syncing trials, even that poor PLD who had intended ilvl could survive with 7 vuln stacks (it was quite a spectacle to watch him, poor guy thought he figured out the planets after like 4th vuln stack, then it added fatalism and knockback). We had 3 people with intended ilvl, so we at least got to listen to vocals, which started at 8%, and fight ended when 2nd verse started.

Would be nice if devs finally said something about this.

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You cant make this shit up, it's a parody at this point.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

https://i.imgur.com/btdtmxa.png

For real, wtf is this. I had 70% more HP than other tank, why is this still a thing. There just isn't any justification for not syncing trials, even that poor PLD who had intended ilvl could survive with 7 vuln stacks (it was quite a spectacle to watch him, poor guy thought he figured out the planets after like 4th vuln stack, then it added fatalism and knockback). We had 3 people with intended ilvl, so we at least got to listen to vocals, which started at 8%, and fight ended when 2nd verse started.

Would be nice if devs finally said something about this.

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Wow, that is so so so messed up!

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

There’s still plenty of reason CT pops more than most.

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Indeed , its mandatory and will always be unlocked once completed to continue 2.xxx post MSQ ( obviously) , compared to Void Ark and onwards that aren't mandatory and may not even have been started by many that are new in their 60/70s+ so it wont pop anyways.

I make it a point to slow my damage on Endsinger nowadays, especially if I see new players in the duty.

For a game that Yoshida is so proud and excited about (paraphrasing) "making possible to play the Story entirely solo, like a single player Final Fantasy game"...

...it is reeeeeeeeeally strange "he" (used in the metonymic sense) also decides that those "new players" who "want to solo" and "don't want to engage with other players in combat content"...

...also apparently will be happy with having to engage with other players in some of the most significant Story moments of every single expansion, while said other-players's 100-iLevel advantage causes said Story moment to melt like a butter-insulated fission reactor??

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Originally Posted by Excited and Passionate MMO Soloer

Wow I'm so glad Duty Support is here, so I don't have to have other people pressuring me to rush through this Dungeon and its story, and I can adventure with my NPC friends, and I don't have to stress about talking to people!

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Originally Posted by Excited and Passionate MMO Soloer

Oh but also, I'm totally cool with, and totally enjoying, having to group up with 7 other actual players periodically in order to be rushed through an epic Boss encounter that the Story built up to... and be told by the Community™ to open up my Party chat and beg 7 strangers to sandbag their DPS so that I can actually see all the dialogue lines and encounter mechanics!

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It's like... :confused_emoji:

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Okay then, do you have any data that backs up new players preferring to have a more challenging experience in the MSQ trials/dungeons compared to now? The point I'm making is why would SE change what is currently working? For certain fights, they have changed them because they were meme worthy for years (Cape Westwind), and maybe that will happen again but I don't see it right now. I enjoyed the Thordan fight and I also enjoyed the newer more difficult trials.

edit: Also, I wonder if all vet players would prefer a more difficult roulette experience. From what I've seen, the vast majority just want to get through it, but I could be wrong.

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Absolutely asinine counterargument.

This is what happens when people are contrarian SE defenders for the sake of being contrarian SE defenders.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

From experience it seems to be the opposite. Most players in old expansion content are roulette players who want to knock it over in 1 go. They wouldn't like it if things were capped and it was not a guaranteed kill every time.
You can see how people reacted to the 2nd and 3rd Endwalker Trials or Seat of Sacrifice Normal to see what would happen, people would unequip gear to not get those on their roulette or would immediately leave on loading in and seeing the duty title. Most existing players wouldn't tolerate more than 1-2 pulls of any content that's not the current endgame.

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The solution is to make older trials harder as well.

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Originally Posted by Minali

Apart from this: It *is* an MMORPG and as much as many people who have been with us for a while like to dismiss it, new people sign up every day and experience the MSQ for the first time. They shouldn't be punished for not being able to play this game ten years ago and on every release day/patch day since. Especially not in a game that says "everyone can play it at their own pace" and "no content is truly obsolete" as part of their unique selling point. If content being dated is making the MSQ experience disappointing in a story heavy game from a story heavy franchise, it's on the devs to do something against it. And considering they already did this with dungeons with item level sync and lately also some reworks, I really don't see why they shouldn't do this with trials either. At least for MSQ relevant trials like Thordan, Seat of Sacrifice or Endsinger. (I don't really mind not seeing all phases of the Four Lords trials or the Warring Triad, because they are not MSQ, but the more the merrier.)

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This, and also literally why do so many 'veterans" prefer faceroll trial roulettes? They're clearly only doing it for the tomes, not because it's fun. Ironically many of the same FF14 white knights only do content because of the carrot and not because of the innate fun of the content. Having harder trial roulettes means it's actually fun again; good for the "veterans" who actually want to play a game and not just play Poetics Farming Simulator 2017.

The only reason why so many people are against this is because they don't actually enjoy FF14 as a game. They are addicted to farming poetics and completing a checklist. They want to finish their homework ASAP and don't want Thordan to take more than 3 minutes. To these people: go play a KMMO or some shit, or maybe just go get your actual IRL chores done. The devs should literally completely ignore this group of players.

I just did Shiva the other day. We almost killed her before she did the transition phase. Was terrible to see.

I really feel bad for any new player playing the content right now.