why the devs take the lazy way out on low lvl content scaling?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You missed the part where I said, "its already triviliazed anyway"

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Old Content being trivialized is due to a plethora of factors though.
Potency Inflation, poor ilvl synch and the content itself being nerfed to the ground that even at MINE, it's nowhere near as challenging as it once was, all play a factor in how trivial older content is. Then we have to also consider that SE has already added skills at lower levels that add to content being trivialized; Total Eclipse and Prominence were never skills prior to ShB but are now skills PLD has access to at level 15/40 respectively whereas before, they only had Flash, a non-damaging AoE Aggro Generator as their primary means of maintaining aggro. Then you have jobs that were clearly designed with little regard to low level play. Standard Step being available at level 15 means any sprout going thru Sastasha that happens to get a high level DNC as a DPS in their group is pretty much screwed since a 720 potency AoE nuke just invalidates anything any other class can do at that level. SE had a chance to improve the older content with the Stat Squish but chose not to. Apart from making the MSQ related stuff compatible with Duty Support, it's unlikely that any old content will be anything more than a visual novel set piece ever again.

You could put a cap on damage output while allowing me to have a fun rotation, though.

If we change the discussion flavor slightly to "should lower levels get their full rotations faster, and then after that it's all just upgrades/replacements", I honestly can't say whether I'd be 'for' that.

On one hand, it would easily solve the issue this thread is even about - your rotation is identical, just the GFX look a bit less pretty and your icons are different. Getting full rotations faster also has a practical effect, in that very early on you learn how it all works.

My problem though, is... Let's say level 50 that seems to be the general metric for stuff being "real content" in any appreciable sense (and as elaborated above by Strider, it keeps creeping further away with every expac). Are you supposed to just be happy doing the same thing throughout all of HW, SB, ShB, and EW content? Or if you say rather it's 60, ditto for SB-EW? And so on.

It's like the other extreme of "jobs don't get good until X", you also can't say "jobs peak at Y (and after that point hope you enjoy grinding the next 40 levels the exact same way lol lmao". Other than just pointlessly saying "dude, SE should like...add more skills throughout the 50-80 range? I guess? Idk lol", I don't really see a solution that makes everyone happy. Sure endgame players will have their full kit, but new players will get burned out because they have NOTHING to look forward to (oh, they'd sprinkle in an extra OGCD here and there I imagine, hope you like your gameplay evolution!) And then the current system, of course, you gain a bigger and bigger rotation with every 4-6 (ish? 6-10? Something like that) levels, but that means going back to that content you lose those skills obviously as the system is built right now.

What if when you were synced to content from a particular expansion, you played with the kit you would have had when that expansion was current? 1-50, you get the ARR version of your job. 51-60 you get the HW version of your job. Etc.

I can already see all sorts of problems with this (cross-class skills, juggling hotbars, having to remember five different versions of the job), but it would guarentee having a complete-ish kit in content designed with that kit in mind.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

You could put a cap on damage output while allowing me to have a fun rotation, though.

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Do I need to refer to the math post again?

You can not account for combo-transformed skills, OGCDs, buffs, and everything else the higher level toolkit has without individually nerfing every higher level vs every lower level. You'd have a full ass needless database of "82 downsynced to level 47 dungeon", "90 downsynced to 33", "53 downsynced to 17". And by the way, how do you resolve a level 90 player and a level 76 player both joining a Level 50's DF? Which is to say, assuming same class, now you have to balance 90 vs 76, and then vs 50.

The only other way is a flat stat squish/reduction, but I mean ffs, you can SEE how poorly the rounding does with that. A level 90 person with Savage gear WILL outdps a level 20 person with the duty-appropriate gear, even if BOTH of them literally did nothing but hit 1 over and over (using the same cookie cutter base skill with the same potency). If THAT already fails to meaningfully "cap" the higher level player's damage output, do you really expect any solution applied to endgame gear AND skill rotations would work?

Literally everything would die in a single rotation by that point up through like SB or ShB. Wow, so much fun for the trial and/or new players, fuck em, right? So long as you can press 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 instead of having to only press 1-2-3, nobody else's enjoyment matters but yours.

This stuff's why every pvp game that balances off of pro player input has gone to shit. You think, and the devs think "oh, these people know what the game is like at the highest level, surely their thoughts will lead to the perfect game!", but it leads to 95% of the playerbase being completely turned off of it.

Max-level shit is only fun if you're max level. Everyone else deserves to have fun, too. You were level 16 doing Sastasha for the first time ever once, too. Edited edit: and see my post a few above, I'm aware the low level skill rotations are themselves boring. But part of the appeal is GETTING those skills as you level up. Before y'all start going "lol it's not fun to press 1-2-1-2 as a level 16 player", agreed, but they aren't level 16 forever.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

Literally everything would die in a single rotation by that point up through like SB or ShB. Wow, so much fun for the trial and/or new players, fuck em, right? So long as you can press 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 instead of having to only press 1-2-3, nobody else's enjoyment matters but yours.

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And the other option is to inflate the HP so much that you do yout 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 combo and do 7 damage from doing the entire combo, and the monster has 21 hp.

And then that would feel bad for you, because you'd do almost no damage with all those flashy hits, AND the monster takes extra hits and everything goes slower.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

My problem though, is... Let's say level 50 that seems to be the general metric for stuff being "real content" in any appreciable sense (and as elaborated above by Strider, it keeps creeping further away with every expac). Are you supposed to just be happy doing the same thing throughout all of HW, SB, ShB, and EW content? Or if you say rather it's 60, ditto for SB-EW? And so on.

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I think it depends on how they go forward with it. Some classes change how they function once they unlock specific traits, WAR being one of the most noticeable examples since Inner Release is a really substantial upgrade for the job. While some jobs are more impacted by Trait upgrades than others, it could still be an avenue to consider in addressing the issue of classes becoming stale

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

why as we go lower that current level content we lose skills. as of lvl 90 any thing under lvl 60 is close to not playable and under 50 even more so. why not let you have the skill but adjust them for the content ? then there be some lvl of fun in this old content that out side of being forced in to by roulettes no one really do.

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Devs do it for the same reason that lazy players demand to overpower low level content with their high level job toolkits.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

But then that would just kill meaningful character progression with leveling. I mean I know this game already heavily triviliazes character progression to be so easy but do we really need to butcher the rpg aspects even further?

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but there no meaningful character progression after you hit lvl 50.the last 3 expansions did not really add new things if you think of it.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I haven't seen anything below Shadowbringers in leveling roulette in months. Anecdotal, I know, but.

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any time i don't bring my party where all at lvl 70-90 i all the time getting some thing under 50. 99% of trials? 50 ones. 50-80 roulette? mostly 50's. normal raids? alex. 24 man raids roulette? tower.