Please stop removing Damage Over Time effects from every job, add more complexity

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Hey, I'm trying to come up with something that gives a reason for DoTs to still exist, because at this rate I won't be surprised if SE removes them from all jobs (other than BLU) permanently. Btw, said detonate button would likely be an oGCD with a hefty timer to avoid spam of it.

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Ahh, gotcha. Yeah, that could be pretty cool then, akin to a damage-inclusive mobility skill, with some decision-making between leveraging situational and basic value. So long as it isn't able to be spammed (as per its being on a decent CD), it'd typically be saved for getting more DoT ticks in per raid buff cycle, but, you could also use it to avoid nullification on jumps. Nice.

I just, again, feel like the latter (saving one's DoTs against arbitrary encounter constraints above and beyond others jobs') shouldn't have been made an issue from the start. There's no need for boss jumps / transitions to nullify existing DoTs; they didn't before, and shouldn't now.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Hey, I'm trying to come up with something that gives a reason for DoTs to still exist, because at this rate I won't be surprised if SE removes them from all jobs (other than BLU) permanently. Btw, said detonate button would likely be an oGCD with a hefty timer to avoid spam of it.

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only jobs that lost their dots so far have been summoner and paladin. BLM, SAM, BRD and the 4 healers are all still there and the devs have said nothing about removing those

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

only jobs that lost their dots so far have been summoner and paladin. BLM, SAM, BRD and the 4 healers are all still there and the devs have said nothing about removing those

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Even if bard technically still has it's DoTs they could just as easily be removed and nothing would change.

They already got reduced from being an integral part of how you dealt damage to just another source of proccing "Straight Shot Ready", something that is already covered by Heavy/Burst Shot. You could simply increase the proc chance on Burst Shot and remove the DoTs entirely, which isn't really that unlikely for 7.0

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Even if bard technically still has it's DoTs they could just as easily be removed and nothing would change.

They already got reduced from being an integral part of how you dealt damage to just another source of proccing "Straight Shot Ready", something that is already covered by Heavy/Burst Shot. You could simply increase the proc chance on Burst Shot and remove the DoTs entirely, which isn't really that unlikely for 7.0

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any job could have its dots removed and potencies of other skills increased to compensate

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

only jobs that lost their dots so far have been summoner and paladin. BLM, SAM, BRD and the 4 healers are all still there and the devs have said nothing about removing those

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NIN lost it's DoT going into EW and jobs like WHM or SCH got all their DoTs except one removed going into ShB, so way more than SMN and PLD have lost their DoTs

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

any job could have its dots removed and potencies of other skills increased to compensate

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For a lot of jobs you could indeed just remove them and compensate said jobs for it in other ways.

For GnB it is simply another damage source and, more importantly, a skill to create additional weave windows, this function could absolutely be fulfilled by a weaponskill that isn't a DoT. On BLM it's basically just an additional movement tool, sure it deals high damage as well but that role can be fulfilled by basically anything, so the only remaining important part is the proc that allows you to reposition without losing damage. On bard it has no interaction anymore with your primary mechanic, the songs, and just serves as another source for Refulgent Arrows.

SAM was a slightly different case, at least in ShB when I last played it. Higanbana was a sort of "anchor" for your rotation that you could orientate yourself around to determine your next action, especially when any downtime was involved. But no idea if that is even still the case in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

NIN lost it's DoT going into EW and jobs like WHM or SCH got all their DoTs except one removed going into ShB, so way more than SMN and PLD have lost their DoTs

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NIN didn't have a dot to keep up. notice how i didn't use GNB as an example of jobs that kept their dots for the same reason

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

only jobs that lost their dots so far have been summoner and paladin. BLM, SAM, BRD and the 4 healers are all still there and the devs have said nothing about removing those

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Just by the time Endwalker was released, not counting actions taken from outside the job's own kit (though we likely should count them), more than half of all jobs have lost DoTs over the years:

• JOB: DoTs lost (portion of total DoTs possessed)
• WAR: 1 (100%)
• DRK: 1 (50%, if including Salted Earth)
• WHM: 2 (67%)
• SCH: 3 (75%)
• AST: 1 (50%)
• SMN: 3-5 (75%-80%, depending on whether one counts pet DoT, let alone the pet AAs as a DoT)
• BRD: 1 (33%)
• MCH: 1 (100%)
• MNK: 1 (50%, though Fracture was requisite, so this probably should be considered 2 and 67%)
• NIN: 2 (100%)
• DRG: 1 (50%)

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

NIN didn't have a dot to keep up. notice how i didn't use GNB as an example of jobs that kept their dots for the same reason

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It did. It had two, in fact, Mutilate (a lone GCD that broke combos) and Shadowfang (a 2nd-step combo finisher). The first DoT was removed in Stormblood, and the second DoT was in 5.1 (not even 5.0).

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

only jobs that lost their dots so far have been summoner and paladin. BLM, SAM, BRD and the 4 healers are all still there and the devs have said nothing about removing those

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WAR lost a dot (Fracture). DRK lost a dot (Scourge). SCH lost multiple dots (Miasma, Miasma II, Shadow Flare). WHM lost a dot (Aero III was its own thing previously). MNK lost a dot (Touch of Death). DRG lost a dot (Phlebotomize). NIN lost 2 dots (Mutilate and Shadowfang).

You get the point. It's been so long in the making that it hasn't been noticed by anybody but those who have been here since HW.

DoTs serve one main function - they allow a very high potency attack to be placed within a rotation, but because the damage happens over a period you're discouraged from spamming it.

I never saw Goring Blade as "maintain this DoT", I actually saw the visual indicator of the DoT on the target as being a kind of anchor point as to where I was in my rotation. Wasnt needed, and Goring Blade could as well have been a 600 potency attack on a 25 second cooldown and it would serve the same purpose within the rotation, but DoTs are just a nice way of doing that.

Also DoTs have the somewhat interesting gameplay choice when multiple targets are involved or adds join fights at certain points, and you have to mentally calculate whether its worth applying the dot or if the target will die too soon. Not exactly complicated, but little mini choices like that all add up to make a job interesting.

I'm not married to the idea that a paladin needs a dot, I'm just a bit concerned that they run the risk of making the rotation feel a bit TOO over simplified. I don't like the current paladin rotation - I mained Paladin until Endwalker but then swapped to Warrior as a main, so I'm keen to see if Paladin's changes make it more fun and make me swap back. But whilst I understand that a lot of players just don't like the idea of DoTs, I saw Goring Blade as a fun skill that served multiple purposes and gave an interesting set of choices and feel to the job that just a single big instant hit would not have.

It's the subtle nuances and micro choices that make a class involving, however small - look at SAM and how the removal of one single skill turned the kenki management from something that required a small bit of thought but was easy, into something that is totally mindless and spammy. I don't know if Paladin NEEDS the dot, but I hope they replace it with a more interesting ability than just a Single Big Hit.