PVP PLD Cheese Problem

Don't play any of the tank classes in PvP, but I love that PLD can HG/Cover/Capture combo. It seems like something their kit was built to do and people malding about an effective strategy is great.

Its a fun mechanic but definitely one that could use a few more ways to disable, personally id be ok with it alot more if they allowed all push backs or pulls skills to work on invuln pld, that way you can rip pld away from whoever they are covering.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

PvP stands for player versus player. You're fighting other players. There's nothing casual about it, but it's really not that hard to stay with your group and fight the enemy and observe objectives. It can be a lot of fun, if people pay the slightest bit of attention.

All it really takes is one person doing callouts and then the rest of the team paying attention and having their map open to see the objectives. There are plenty of guides out there if people need them. There's very little to learn compared to any extreme or savage.

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Did you think 24 people will always listen to you? Did you ever go into jail or yelling at you "You did not pay for my subscription" while you are doing call out?
Organized 8 people in extreme/savage/ultimate is not easy already. Will 24 random people be easier? Especially some people do not even care about it.
PVP has more to learn than any PVE content. PVE is scripted, but PVP is not. Players do move, is dynamic environment. You need not only the skill for the class you are playing, you also need to know what other class has, what should you do in what conditions, map awareness (even though so many people do not open maps), teamwork, targeting, prediction, time management and more.

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Originally Posted by zabu

Did you think 24 people will always listen to you? Did you ever go into jail or yelling at you "You did not pay for my subscription" while you are doing call out?
Organized 8 people in extreme/savage/ultimate is not easy already. Will 24 random people be easier? Especially some people do not even care about it.
PVP has more to learn than any PVE content. PVE is scripted, but PVP is not. Players do move, is dynamic environment. You need not only the skill for the class you are playing, you also need to know what other class has, what should you do in what conditions, map awareness (even though so many people do not open maps), teamwork, targeting, prediction, time management and more.

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Yes to both. Note that I said it was easy for people to follow along, not to get them to follow along.
Getting yelled at or not being listened to is fairly common, but there are those that appreciate it, especially when we win.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Yes to both. Note that I said it was easy for people to follow along, not to get them to follow along.
Getting yelled at or not being listened to is fairly common, but there are those that appreciate it, especially when we win.

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This is probably also a good time to mention that if someone does callouts, you should probably follow them if you dont have anything smarter to do. A bad call can still work out well if everyone commits to it but a call no one commits to will always fail.

Even something as simple as reminding your team which side has more points regularly can have a considerable influence.

It won’t always work, but gotta give it a try—I won’t win anything by staying on the sidelines.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

... it all boils down to Skill Issue.

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Yep, I agree that it's a skill issue, but not for the reason you think it is.

Paladin Guardian+Guard capping is braindead simple to pull off compared to the amount of coordination, effort, and most importantly responsiveness that it takes to counter it.

A pair of mediocre paladins working together, particularly if they queue together and are on voicechat, can easily make attempt after attempt at abusing guardian capping. There are methods of disrupting them, but they're not nearly as reliable and often require coordination from more than just two people.

Guardian capping ideally needs to be removed, but at the very least it either needs to be made much harder to pull off or much easier to disrupt.

In the meantime, I stopped bothering to queue for Onsal explicitly because of this nonsense.

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Originally Posted by zabu

Did you think 24 people will always listen to you? Did you ever go into jail or yelling at you "You did not pay for my subscription" while you are doing call out?
Organized 8 people in extreme/savage/ultimate is not easy already. Will 24 random people be easier? Especially some people do not even care about it.
PVP has more to learn than any PVE content. PVE is scripted, but PVP is not. Players do move, is dynamic environment. You need not only the skill for the class you are playing, you also need to know what other class has, what should you do in what conditions, map awareness (even though so many people do not open maps), teamwork, targeting, prediction, time management and more.

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If you do good calls then yeah, people will listen. I do them for Onsal, Secure and sometimes Seal Rock. You also don't need to know all of what you listed to do good calls in pvp, just awarenesss of where your team is and closest objectives to hit based on priority. Throw in knowing when is a good time to pinch the leading team and you're set. The vast majority of my calls based on that have led to wins.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Yep, I agree that it's a skill issue, but not for the reason you think it is.

Paladin Guardian+Guard capping is braindead simple to pull off compared to the amount of coordination, effort, and most importantly responsiveness that it takes to counter it.

A pair of mediocre paladins working together, particularly if they queue together and are on voicechat, can easily make attempt after attempt at abusing guardian capping. There are methods of disrupting them, but they're not nearly as reliable and often require coordination from more than just two people.

Guardian capping ideally needs to be removed, but at the very least it either needs to be made much harder to pull off or much easier to disrupt.

In the meantime, I stopped bothering to queue for Onsal explicitly because of this nonsense.

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The real way to counter the paladin combo is not through any action breaking the cover itself but by not letting it come that far in the first place and snowballing battlehigh into so much pressure on the enemy team that cover capping becomes impossible.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

The real way to counter the paladin combo is not through any action breaking the cover itself but by not letting it come that far in the first place and snowballing battlehigh into so much pressure on the enemy team that cover capping becomes impossible.

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Okay, but saying 'just outplay them' changes absolutely nothing about the fact that the amount of skill and effort a team needs to put in the counter the tactic is orders of magnitude higher than the amount of skill and effort it takes a pair of players to repeatedly try and abuse the tactic.

That's the problem and why so many people have an issue with guardian capping. It's so stupidly simple and easy to try and abuse compared to the amount of effort opposing teams need to put in to shut the tactic down whether it's before or during. I can't speak for everyone, but for me it's incredibly irritating to play against, so I just don't bother anymore. If you have fun with it, fine, good for you, but there are a lot of people that feel it ruins the spirit of Onsal and subsequently their enjoyment of the map.