Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Maybe you'll be able to buy new healer DPS skills in NFT form.

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The sad part is that I perked up a little and thought "heeey" at the prospect of a potential uplift in the skill ceiling.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Im sorry but Im not in that same mindset as you. When I play a healer in this game, I go into the mindset that my goal is to keep the party alive, not to just be an extra DPS. Yes I contribute to dealing damage when allowed but most of my time is spent on patching up the MT during mob pulls or mitigating damage during raids and bosses. Thats all I expect for a "healer" to do.

Again I feel like we've grown too jaded and complacent over the green dps meme and that healing is nothing but a 3rd dps job when that wasnt its intention at all. You grow to not like healing anymore then OK FINE! go play another job, healing is just not for you. Healers arent designed to have to juggle between dps rotations and keeping healing on top. The whole point of the holy trinity is to cater to those 3 core play styles. Tanks are for people who want to lead and be up front, dps are there for those who want to focus on dealing damage and healers are for those who care more about supporting.

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That would be good reason to fall back onto if we really need to heal that much... except we don't. I even mentioned it specifically in the post that you decided to only read the first half and cut the 2nd half away for whatever reason, which was as follow:

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

We can heal. We should heal, but the damage intake is not up there. What could we possibly be doing when we've healed all that's needed to be healed? This has been debated for so many, many, many, MANY times in the past. Raise the damage intake and we'll only upset players from both spectrums. Inexperienced will get discouraged because they just can't clear content when all they're capable of are casting Medica II and/or fishing for Freecure procs. Vets will get frustrated because the burden will too often fall to their hands to 'carry' the inexperienced. I'm sure this is not a situation everybody wish to experience.

In turn, they asks for more something to do during downtime. Asking for more buttons to press doesn't always mean specifically an actual dps rotation, that's just one of the possible options. It can be anything. More debuffs/buffs with varied timers to manage, DoTs. Healers who just want to heal will never touch non-healing buttons. There are already players who don't even touch their Dia/Biolysis/Combust/E.Diagnosis when it's actually a simple, convenient "press this button once every 30s and forget", why do you think they'll even stress about touching more buttons? If any, expectation for healers to dps would be lowered because it'll become commonly known that dpsing requires more skill than the current 1 button spam ad nauseam.

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Once again a tired old post about healers not being fun lol.

Healers are fun. There I can state a subjective opinion as if it was an objective one too.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

That would be good reason to fall back onto if we really need to heal that much... except we don't. I even mentioned it specifically in the post that you decided to only read the first half and cut the 2nd half away for whatever reason:

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I didnt skip it, I read all of it. I cut it due to the text limit on a single post and I just wanted to point out a thing. Gotta love how you just assume the worst in things.

Anyway, I also said on a previous post that Im not against giving more extra options to help with the damage as long as they dont overbloat the class to have a full dps rotation buttons or skills taking away of the focus on healing. Again I speak in my experience that when I play healer I always feel on my toes because I basically babysit boo boos and potential boo boos in group content in my years of playing this game. Not once did I get bored of my class because unlike others I still feel valued. So many people are just angry in this forum and while Im all for feedback, this just feels stupidly vicious. Maybe Im just being a special snowflake.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I didnt skip it, I read all of it. I cut it due to the text limit on a single post and I just wanted to point out a thing. Gotta love how you just assume the worst in things.

Anyway, I also said on a previous post that Im not against giving more extra options to help with the damage as long as they dont overbloat the class to have a full dps rotation buttons or skills taking away of the focus on healing. Again I speak in my experience that when I play healer I always feel on my toes because I basically babysit boo boos and potential boo boos in group content in my years of playing this game. Not once did I get bored of my class because unlike others I still feel valued. So many people are just angry in this forum and while Im all for feedback, this just feels stupidly vicious. Maybe Im just being a special snowflake.

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Fair enough, my apologies for having negative assumptions. Because in general when people do want to reduce the amount of text to meet the limitation, they'd normally just replace the whole text with something like "Snip". Other forum user can still trace back which post they're actually quoting by clicking that little arrow.

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Full DPS rotations, like I've mentioned earlier is just one of the possibilities... but personally? I don't want that 100%. Not that I'd refuse to entirely learn if they actually drop it. That's just how much I'm attached to this green roles.

Even something as simple as adding one sort of 'different timer', i.e. 2nd DoT and/or additional buff with duration that's NOT 30s would be a boon to break the monotony. One of the most popular ones that's often mentioned was something like adding back Aero III into WHM's arsenal. Again, that's just one of many possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Also, I feel like a lot of posters in this thread likely play mostly with statics or friends and as a result, are out of touch with the general player base. Not the devs. The OP has a forum signature that pretty much says this, which is ironic. Just being on these forums almost automatically puts you at a higher level than most players who rarely know they even exist.

Almost every day in my daily roulettes, I STILL encounter healers who dont even want to DPS as things are RIGHT NOW...and this thread clamors for MORE challenge...

so Yoshi P has the data and has the right path going forward here, I believe.

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I play as a healer with randos in casual instances up to alliance raids. It's still dead easy, even with people making silly errors, and I can comfortably spend most of my time dpsing, whether as a WHM or as a SGE. The sheer ease of putting out big healing guarantees it provided you know how to use the job at a basic level, e.g. reading tool tips and understanding how GCDs and oGCDs work. The fact that people confirm this occurs even in harder content and can provide the log analysis to prove it should give people some pause. It's not a great place to be to have your only difficult content be the very hardest mode of it. 1 nuke 1 dot and some occasional damage spells isn't fun.

I used to raid back when I played WoW, so I am familiar with MMO mechanics, but it's not like it's difficult to figure this stuff out if you put in even minimal effort.

Honestly all jobs get boring. I was always a healer main until SHB expansion then went summoner main. I did level my healers to 90 just to have them just in case but I’m still a summoner main and it’s boring lol. See the same primals over and over.

What I’m trying to say is I’m not sure what healers want? Most of you barely heal now as it is. I can’t tell you how many times groups I’ve been in wiped because our Whm only casted glare, the sch was foolish and only let weak eos try to heal everyone while they broil away etc. I’m quite happy healers don’t have full dps rotations because they would be so focused on dps and trying to get good “numbers” we’d never get any heals.

I don’t feel bad for healer mains. I use to be one and I always put healing first but nowadays most healers are so dps focused that they forget they are healers first. I hope they never expand upon dps with healers because I’m afraid we’d never get any heals then.

And please stop threatening the devs saying everyone gonna quit healing. It’s BS and you all know it. I said that many times and I still get the itch to go back and I do sometimes to play. There will always be healers in the game so let’s just stop that. That’s why Yoshi P doesn’t care. He sees the numbers. He sees healers aren’t disappearing.

I know allot of people might come for me and say I’m crazy and I don’t know what I’m talking about and blah blah. I don’t care. I don’t know you people. I’m just stating my opinion on a free public forum like the rest of you.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

So many people are just angry in this forum and while Im all for feedback, this just feels stupidly vicious. Maybe Im just being a special snowflake.

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There's a few things happening here, a couple of them personal to you, and a couple that has resonated with a whole group of people for a long time. These complaints, of healers being dull and having little to do in comparison with other jobs, in relation to their main role, has been going on for years with little response other than willful ignorance, a jaded response that they don't want to hear our feedback anymore, and hand-waving. Most of us, who have these long-standing complaints, understand and can appreciate the value in a low skill floor for accommodating players who have difficulty with the concept of the healing role and players who are just new to playing in the role in general.
The issue we have, however, is that the skill ceiling is far too low, and healing requirements in general alongside it, so improvement in healers leads to boredom in the best case scenario, becoming obsolete in the best case scenario, and ambivalence inbetween.

We need a higher skill ceiling so healers that do go above and beyond your and my skill levels aren't just made to feel that they're being lied to when they're told they're necessary for party compositions to succeed.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Fair enough, my apologies for having negative assumptions. Because in general when people do want to reduce the amount of text to meet the limitation, they'd normally just replace the whole text with something like "Snip". Other forum user can still trace back which post they're actually quoting by clicking that little arrow.

Anyway...
Full DPS rotations, like I've mentioned earlier is just one of the possibilities... but personally? I don't want that 100%. Not that I'd refuse to entirely learn if they actually drop it. That's just how much I'm attached to this green roles.

Even something as simple as adding one sort of 'different timer', i.e. 2nd DoT and/or additional buff with duration that's NOT 30s would be a boon to break the monotony. One of the most popular ones that's often mentioned was something like adding back Aero III into WHM's arsenal. Again, that's just one of many possibilities.

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Ah I see, this is also my bad since Im not as overly versed in forum posting. Thanks!

I think I would prefer if existing spells had an altered effect to help with either inflicting useful debuffs or dealing additional damage. But yeah I just dont want to see healers get too bloated in their skill arsenal. Kinda like how it was universally liked when the devs got rid of the TP system along with trimming down enmity skills for tanks and keeping it simple enough while still dealing damage with combos and other ogcds. As long as the hotbars are still kept simple I'll be happy basically lol.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Ok thats gonna be a hard disagree on my end. White Mage, Sage and Scholar DO NOT play like each other. White Mage you have your bursty heals, the best AoE in the game for mobs but require more careful MP management. Sage is an odd mix of heals, regens and shields alongside having a button to change those properties on your basic healing and damage spells with the added bonus on healing via damaging. And Scholar is all about proper fairy usage with not having strong heals but making up for it with stronger shields. I seriously dont see how those 3 classes play the exact same way, sure they have similar usage to their ogcds with their gauges (somewhat) but like I mentioned before, the whole design aspect of healing is to heal not to deal damage.

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When 70-90% of all we do is damage and all the healers have 1 dot 1 nuke spam to do the damage with very minor variations then nearly close to 70-90% of the healers play the same, period.

The rest idk what game you're playing cause that is simply wrong, Whm does not rely on bursty heals more than anyone else as everyone has the same bursty heals (and for the most part better and more efficient) and the little niches of differentiation that it may have like cure 3 or some afflatus heals are unneficient and do more harm than good, its AoE is laughable compared to sage and keeps it from healing without clipping due to the non reduction of the cast time Holy has. Sage is literally Sch 2.0 to the point you can pinpoint the majority of heals and show their Sch equivalent with the exact same potency, cd and resource used the only difference is that for Sge they are not a dps loss and Sch isnt about fairy management only (as there is nothing to manage, only press the cds and rarely mechanics ask for more than leaving the fairy in the middle) is about cutting loses from Aetherflow which is a completely different point and its own can of worms about how badly designed it is.