My Eulogy for Machinist

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Originally Posted by Aiscence

That's the problem, you can't really change anything in the current build as... .

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What?

You can literally change so much about it. The standardized resource (Heat, kinki, ninki, etc) is more flexible with a defined "Well now you have to start spending" point. You only have two cornerstone GCDs to work around, but for the most part, the inflexibility of Mach is based around the relationship between Drill and Overheat. A 20s reoccurring weaponskill and a resource you eventually have to spend.

Everything else can be worked with. Where the robot comes down, where you can fit in non-123 weaponskills, whether it should build heat or not, etc.

Throw a dart on a board full of new GCD actions and it can fit literally anywhere, and if it brings conflict with Overheat, all the better.

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Originally Posted by Aiscence

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Completely disagree on all your claims, theirs tons to add on and enhance from both SB and SHB, but they both needed different focuses

SB needed to be heavily streamlined and re-evaluated, SHB needs a few Qol addressed and enhanced the downtime and the execution. Both incarnations aren’t as in a dead end as most people think or are as flawless as many think right now that it needs to stagnate forever

SB needed a designated ST options for heat generation to Overheat, or just have it work like Hypercharge in SHB, Gauss barrel could just turn into a trait, Rapid can just fuse it’s buff to overheating, and Blank and Heart can be removed. This trim down pressure of the button execution order to streamline it not to leave it as is but to add on and enhance what’s leftover. If Ammo remains the same MCH will need a backup rotation, BRD and DNC loop works with it because they aren’t solely reliant on just its % chance no matter how frequent it is for it. This is where MCH GCD May help, Drill reassemble and AA ties can work alongside ammo to reduce the monotony, that leaves Gauss and Ricochet. Perhaps make AA a a Aoe and with Drill to transform from G and R upon a new gauge and or if reassembled similar but not quite the same as Heat. This is all but word vomit but I’m sure I can muster up somthing unique for the 4 of them without being shallow upgrades. Probably deserving of a thread on its own

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Originally Posted by Jirah

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SHB needs a few extra steps to get away from the boorish appeal it has. Execution of its attacks has always been simple for simple sake but first Qol is more important. Hve FT generate heat, god sake this won’t break the job and will finally give it synergy with the rest of the kit, either remove Round or have rico proc with auto crossbow so it also has synergy with the kit. Bioblast could in theory replace old turret “Invul” debuff which would make the job have some much needed utilities and cuz rn its just a casual Drill alternative which isn’t even that vital, 6.0
The only change is a Aoe Attack from queen which...crossing fingers... is similar to deathflare but until tooltips, maybe a way to unleash attacks on MCH command? The longer the gauge is full the more you can land similar to Ahk Mourn May be adjusted abit as it’ll take forever to have it filled, or just cap it to 50. Heat blast has always been a bore after the initial cluster **** opener where you press all the buttons, hot take but I say remove it, turn heat into a speed buff and reset casttimes for Drill and AA. That way your doing your 1-2-3 and 1-1 while weaving your charges instead of 1-1-1-1-1, issues might be with how Times Drill and AA are and reconsider heats generation but aren’t impossible to strike a balance to reflect a kit. Wildfire may have to be reworked all together, unless they do somthing like bunchin stacks which would just add to the redundancy. Since this is all word vomit anyways why not; when WF is active on the target every Weaponskill you do adds a stack kinda similar how Normal Invul works but just the function not the actual lowering of defense, and just like before you can detonate it at your leisure and each stack is how powerful it’ll be but once it reaches a certain number like say 5, it maxes out and once it reaches anything higher it withers away making detonation vital, and maybe a trait that increases potency for every Weaponskill action if under the effects of heat to tie into its Heat phase and maybe include aoes and make WF a Aoe Blast similar to Flare or Deathflare so I can be used in both cases, like how they’re doing RDM. No timer, no worry for heats timer either so it’s not as ping sensitive and lower than CD to make it more apparent.

I cannot stress this enough but this all just hypotheticals and I’m sure they’re are underlying flaws in my suggestions. But in no way shape or form is any job dead end, it’s only a dead end if you don’t care

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Why compare MCH to RDM anyway? They're completely different roles. You're not competing with Red Mage, you are competing with Dancer and Bard.

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I have never understood this attitude. Each of the jobs has its own quirks. None of the jobs is 'competing' against other jobs. Every player chooses a job because they like the playstyle, not because it's somehow 'better' than another job.

[Min-max end game players need not reply - your playstyle is apparently 'what does the most damage with the least intolerable job actions'.]

Want to run around like a chicken confused by the roundabout? Choose one of the physical ranged DPS.

Want to blow things up, complete with special effects? Choose one of the magical ranged DPS.

Want to get up-close and personal when fighting a boss? Choose one of the melee DPS.

Granted, they flat out said that job design and gameplay will be easier than Shadowbringers. Sure, okay, fuck it, we can't blame you for following the money.
BUT GOD DAMN, literally adding UTILITY, and restoring the old Physical Ranged identity is HARD FOR THESE PEOPLE.
SCH's Combat Peloton, RDM's magic raid buff, hell even just a nerfed version of Refresh or old Palisade, or even bringing back old class specific utility like Dismantle would be a GOOD FIRST STEP to fixing Physical Ranged.

WHY ARE THESE DEVS SO ADAMANT IN KEEPING PHYSICAL RANGED AS BABY'S FIRST DPS? What about the actual Physical Ranged players BEFORE the reworks Devs? What about us?
Why is an UNCONTROLLABLE 1% PARTY BUFF, the ONLY reason why people bring Ranged Physicals? Why can't it be just that AND actual utility? Why are we still stuck with the same goddamn 180 second cd Reprisal clone?
Why can't we use CC on E8S adds? Why does a fucking Ninja and a Dragoon have more raid buffs than a PHYSICAL RANGED JOB, the Role that had the identity of UTILITY DPS?

There's a LOT of valid criticism over the past TWO YEARS over the "Physical Ranged rework", and ALMOST NOTHING has EVEN BEEN CONSIDERED into the job design.
WE ARE PAYING TO PLAY YOUR GAME TOO. CONSIDER OUR FEEDBACK AS WELL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

Christ if you guys are so adamant on destroying what fun we've had with a role, you might as well turn Physical ranged's rotation into Healers. Just give it one GCD, one DoT and one Multitarget GCD.
That will 110% boost your Physical Ranged player numbers. Do it and roll in the money.

Fuck this game.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

So far I’ve seen nothing to suggest a reduction in BRD kit, and BRD kit is as good as you can get compared to the other ranged, DNC being trivialized MCH unmoving.

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Except Bard's current kit is exactly what people have been complaining about. I know you don't see the small nuisances of SB Bard as a big loss but the same could be argued for how others view SB Machinist to ShB Machinist. SB Bard players want that complexity back because the majority of their gameplay revolves around spamming Burst Shot. While I'd like to be optimistic about the "Crescendo" song ability they showed off. It's hard to get excited over anything related to the song buffs when they're so damn boring. Apex Arrower is probably the last thing anyone wanted.

Simply put, Bard isn't being trivialized like Dancer because they already accomplished that in ShB. Dancer's just late to the party.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Except Bard's current kit is exactly what people have been complaining about. I know you don't see the small nuisances of SB Bard as a big loss but the same could be argued for how others view SB Machinist to ShB Machinist. SB Bard players want that complexity back because the majority of their gameplay revolves around spamming Burst Shot. While I'd like to be optimistic about the "Crescendo" song ability they showed off. It's hard to get excited over anything related to the song buffs when they're so damn boring. Apex Arrower is probably the last thing anyone wanted.

Simply put, Bard isn't being trivialized like Dancer because they already accomplished that in ShB. Dancer's just late to the party.

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I’ve heard complaints ranged from not being SB and it being too hard with none of them meeting halfway. Which is hard to take seriously, probably hypocritical of me but it’s hard to get SB back without it’s core supplies that they removed beyond from everyone, and any desire to break more jobs for accessible sake is not tolerated and should be ignored givin how it’s a big possibility of SMN outcome

Also DNC buff always seem to be the same to me except picking a dance partner, it’s all automatic you can’t deter away from it because it also effects you and your phase overall dps, BV for example can be deployed whenever giving you some chance of optimizing, technic devilment cannot. Their best buff is Walz because it has a variable, group up for stronger heals and wish more support aligns with this printable not “use for 0.6% more defense” where you never feel the contribution

In short due to the games small stature ,BRD isn’t lacking support skills, support skills can’t be varied enough to feel like support, and it isn’t too difficult to manage, DNC and MCH are too lenient on their approach. Making BRD the worst of both world, but both worlds aren’t utopias

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Fuck this game.

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Can I have your stuff?

I thought we agreed on that we hated heat blast spam. I was sad it didn't get any change. I've had it for 2 years. Done with MCH from the looks of it.

SB MCH was at a dead end... Because of how Wildfire used to work.
Every new cooldown they could add would be incorporated into Wildfire combo. Making the combo bigger and complex until you can't weave anything in there.
And at this point, it would be choosing what to cram into wildfire.

For a quick reminder, SB Wildfire was meant to eat all damage, not just GCD to increase its potency.
If I play MCH it's for its visuals and appeals, I don't care about any other DPS or gameplay.

One point about complexity:
Flamethrower and tick fishing is one of the most complex (and annoying) aspect of MCH.
It's not a fun tool to use in AoE or tick fishing case.

Casuals don't use it the optimal way, they don't actually care about the optimal way, yet they are adamant on keeping it.
If a button too complex was to be added, same scenario would occur.

Like how many of you probably experienced the "Healers shouldn't DPS" and any other jobs played wrong.
They don't care about optimizing complex rotations, but they fear its existence.