The clones of Emet.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Do we have evidence he planned all of that at exactly that point? Because I'm pretty sure the crystals were kicking around for a long time (and are by all rights appearing to be the real deal ones they used to ascend the rest of the Ascians), the only real question is how they ended up where we found them. And there's a lot of explanations for that, chiefly suspecting Hythlodaeus or perhaps Elidibus dropping them.

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Yeah right. If Elidbeus dropped them, he won't need them to bring back his memories at the end. Hythlodaues being anything other then a shade created by Emet and happens to have the Azem's crystal create by Emet would be sloppy writing and you know that would never happen in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

"I AM STIFLED BY THIS VESSEL OF FLESH!"

In the fight in the Dying Gasp, Hades actually discards the body of Solus in favor of taking on the true form of his soul in order to fight us at his fullest. That is how he transforms into the giant clawed monster.

You misunderstand the auracite chunk. Take note of what the Scions were doing. They were channeling their aether so that the auracite would trap and absorb as much of his soul as possible. This is a battle against Hades's very soul. The last chunk to break is the one that gets all of their efforts, becoming the spear that he has to hold back from piercing him. It didn't stake him down. It basically made a weakpoint in his soul, a chink in his armor, which is why our Axe of Light was able to penetrate him.

As for the rest of Amaurot still being around... Akademia Anyder is a dungeon set there AFTER we've killed Hades. His illusion Amaurot was setup to persist after he was gone. The Dying Gasp takes place in the portion of Amaurot that sits in ruins above sea level. That was an active illusion he made, whereas the Amaurot beneath the sea was a passive one.

We will no doubt see holorecordings of Emet-selch on the moon in the Mare Lamentorum crystal repository. We may even get an Echo vision of him in the past. His legacy, the one he wants us to remember, is going to still impact the story.

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Explain this part first. Emet said that he will not lie to you (and technically he never did, he just omitted a few things) Emet also said that he could have wiped out your entire party in The Dying Gasp without a blink right at the start. Why didn't he? Did you notice that the ring of arrows landed in a circle around Alisaie and Aiphinaud instead of on them (why even show the ring in the first place if there's no intention behind it) and a perfect killing shot on Ryne (which a lot of players actually believe it was) apparently only knock her out for a bit? If his intention is to take out your friends. They would have all be dead or seriously hurt at the beginning of The Dying Gasp, much less timed a perfect rescue at the end with no worse for wear.

You can edit posts, please do so instead of this post spam, for all of our sanity.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You can edit posts, please do so instead of this post spam, for all of our sanity.

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The problem is I was always running up against the max word limit between the quote and my response.

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Originally Posted by Wiz33

Explain this part first. Emet said that he will not lie to you (and technically he never did, he just omitted a few things)

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That's called, A Lie by Omission. It's still lying. Also, he didn't say that he wouldn't lie to us. He said that he'd done nothing but tell us the truth, and then he says, "But if I were to lie you would find it quite indistinguishable." Which basically him admitting to being an unreliable narrator.

Did you notice that those "arrows" exploded? You should look up concussive force, sometime. They missed at first to inspire terror. It's a common villain tactic.

As for why he didn't outright kill the Scions, again, to inspire terror and play with his food, so to speak. By the time he does get serious, we've fused with Ardbert, and the Exarch has summoned the other WoLs. Also, note that he'd just shrugged Thancred off, and didn't think he had time to really aim, hence why the blast only grazed Ryne. He hit Urianger and Y'shtola with the same blasts a few seconds earlier. The Scions are sturdier than you or he gives them credit for.

Pride cometh before the fall.

Just to add,

1) just because Emet says he doesn’t lie to us, doesn’t mean he doesn’t lie to us. There is no rule that he can’t lie. I would argue he is the most dishonest person we have encountered thus far, even if we are only counting lies by omission.

2) The entire party save the WoL is rendered unconscious in about 3 minutes in the cutscene. Each member getting 1-shot. There could be any number of explanations here- he misjudged their ability to survive his magic; he thought he did kill them; he purposefully left them alive to exploit while fighting(we fight him but also have to protect our friends/can’t fully focus on fighting him); he wanted to cause a minor rejoining in having Ardbert and WoL fuse.

The point is, we don’t know his motivations beyond what we were specifically told. Throughout he was judging our worthiness… of what? Awakening to become Azem? To be allowed to live?

3) The ascians, and the ancients by extension, are not almighty/all knowing or all powerful. There are cases where our tech has surpassed the theirs (eg. Time Travel/manipulation). It is obvious they make many mistakes- the word for their way of thinking is Hubris.

4) we also don’t know the nature of Emet’s tempering to Zodiark. We don’t know how compelled he is to do what he does vs. what he truly wants. We don’t know if Emet is even aware of being tempered (I think he might have said he was aware at some point but I don’t remember). Only at his death, does he seem free of the tempering- he accepts his death with grace and asks us to remember him and his people. It’s bittersweet.

Of course is very possible Emet was simply over confident in his power to deal with us “ants”, and he got defeated. Or possibly he actually wants us to destroy him/be free from an eternity of enslavement to Zodiark.

It’s all speculation, which is fun, but we can’t claim any of it to be true until we know for sure what’s going on. To claim Emet is still alive after that huge send off would call into question every aetheric-related death up to now. Anyone who has “dissolved into aether particles” could come back, which would be a huge detriment to the story.

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Originally Posted by Wiz33

You need your memories checked. The Etched in the Stars cutscene was Hythlodaues telling us that he would preferred that we survive the encounter with Elidabeus so we can honor our word to Emet to remember them. Not us telling them.

Emet said he won't lie to you. He also said he could wipe your entire party away without much effort. Yet did you notice that the ring of arrows landed in a circle around Alisaie and Aiphinaud instead of on them and a perfect killing shot on Ryne only knock her out for a bit? If his intention is to take out the scions. They would have all be dead at the beginning of The Dying Gasp, much less timed a perfect rescue at the end no worse for wear. It was all a setup by Emet to test your worthiness and save your butt if you are. Why else would he have the trail of crystal ready for you and was there to snap you out of the void in SOS.

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I have literally exactly the Etched in the Stars cutscene recorded on my computer for my big Ascian video, and was referring to it when making that post. Before the fade-to-black, Hythlodaeus tells us about the crystals (without bringing up the Azem crystal) and then asks us what's going on, surmising correctly that we're dealing with Elidibus now. Directly after the fade-to-black is when he talks about Emet's last words, and from context we can tell we summarized everything after our first conversation with him.

I also have the scene after Dungeon Amaurot recorded, and am referring to it right now. And the shot on the twins actually doesn't seem to exactly miss them; we don't see one strike them, but there's more than enough aiming directly at their position to confirm it to anyone with object permanence. ...and then the arrows EXPLODE anyway. Ryne gets a shot to the abdomen, both by the animation of the shot and where she's holding her hand afterwards; that actually isn't lethal if we assume it's like a bullet, although it sure ain't good.

But you seem to be assuming the Scions are made of tissue paper and can be turbomurdered with a flick of the wrist. And... well, they just aren't. If that were true, then the MSQ wouldn't have made it past the 2.x patches. Also remember that Trusts are canonical; before this fight, they bested three Lightwardens and a retelling of Amaurot's apocalypse. After this fight, their conquests include all of Elidibus' summoned heroes, and Lunar Bahamut. I would actually find it harder to believe that Emet could kill them without a thought than I would to believe they need at least a little bit of extra effort than that. Effort that Emet wasn't putting forward, because A: he's a theatrical prat that loves an audience, and B: he just thinks they'll be collateral damage when the WoL goes Lightwarden.

And again: Emet lies constantly. He's actually the Ascian that lies the most in the entire story behind Lahabrea. It's just that he gives lies of omission, leaving out key facts because they would hurt his argument. You can't trust a word he says without extra evidence, and the extra evidence says they're tougher than that.

So, basically, you're inferring what was said between us and Hythlodaeus and putting words in our mouth (and for a second, I thought I was going senile as I was watching the exact same cutscene when I was typing that message). Well, since we're inferring. then may I direct your attention to your face after Hythlodaeus said that he would rather you lived to keep your promise to Emet. Your mouth drops open and I'll infer that as you're surprised that he knows you promised Emet to remember them. The fact that Hythlodaeus shade is still being sustained and the fact that someone have the crystal trail all laid out for you and just happens to be hanging around in the void to snap you out of it doesn't bother you if Emet is really dead.

Emet is not a babe in the wood, he's been around the block a few time, well probably quite a bit more given the thousands and thousands of years that he's been hanging around. Defeating the Scion is basically just a wave of his hand as he demonstrated in the opening of The Dying Gasp. If he wants them to be dead. The will be. They are basically ants in his eyes with the exceptions that they are your friends.

You guys can't seems to wrap your head around the fact that the only reason you and everyone else survived the whole ShB experience is because of Emet Selch! Without him. Y'shtola would be dead (and you would not even realize that Elidibus is a Primal), The Crystal Exarch would be dead after absorbing all you Aether, the Scion will get sent home but may or may not make it in one piece, you will have no help in reaching the Crystal Tower since the Scion/Exarch will be gone, without the Azem crystals, you have no chance of defeating Elidibus, even if you somehow managed to defeat him, you can't bind him since you have no control over the tower and there will not be a memory crystal to transfer the Exarch's memories to the younger G'raha. Now. If you finally got your head wrap around the above. Tell me how can someone who have done all that does not have a perfect exit strategy all ready for his final curtain call, with the encore being snapping you out of the void in SOS and basically telling you that he's handing you the future but he's still there if you stray from the path.

P.S. Link for your video when you have it up please. Would love to see it.

Video's here. It's an hour long, but there are timestamps in the description. And you're probably not gonna like it, because I pay more attention to deeds than words, and his deeds paint him as a pretty terrible, manipulative person.

I'd make counterarguments, but frankly, all of them are already in the video.

Cool, Will take a look.