Please implement something to teach players how to play

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SniperCT

optional bonus objectives

---

See ARR dungeon pathing controversy.

Quote:

---

speed bonuses

---

See the prior pages in this very thread.

Quote:

---

Or like optional bonus bosses that may have some extra mechanic or something.

---

See dungeon pathing controversy in general. Perhaps if roulette rewards were removed, thus taking away the incentive to almost always skip these optional bosses, this could work, but this kind of thing has long been tried and, at least among other daily/weekly/once-per-run bonus systems, has almost never been a success.

For better or worse, there is no motivation to improve if they can clear the content they want to clear. For players not engaging in hard content and/or just doing the base game don’t need that much skill, and SE has no interest in raising this bar for the base game as they might lose players.

Remember, they made an entire TV drama about a guy who played with his dad…and while the dad did eventually clear binding coil, he was by no means a “great” player. That is this games target audience.

All that said, I wouldnt mind some kind of arena where you could just 1v1 common mobs like chimera or cyclops to just practice mechanics. Rather than deal actual damage they just report after 1 minute how much damage you took vs dealt, or how many mechanics you flubbed. In my case I play every job (many super sub par), and would be nice to have a place to warm up/remember mechanics without relying on things like fates. Something like Blu’s carnival would be perfect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fellgon

Not really, big pulls are for experienced players.

---

Since the relative nerfs to healer and tank single-target damage (removal of CS, Sword Oath, etc.), literally every dungeon I did while leveling my alt, if at least one DPS had an AoE, the tank full-pulled. All but one was a Sprout, as were most of those I was running with. Yes, that goes as low as Tam-tara.

You mean do such things as have the Play Guide people can read? Implement Bardam's Mettle which really gets you to learn mechanics? Create this thing called Novice Network and let players become Mentors?

And dude, if you get yelled at for trying to help people learn, then you probably need to look at yourself a bit. Usually people only scream at you if you're a prick in the way you say it. But if you're kind and offer advice, people usually are silent or will thank you for it. Now, that said, let me hit some of your usual suspects:

- Healer who stands still, doesn't deal damage, can't even keep up with healing = If can't keep up with healing, then is question of whether they just aren't statted right or if perhaps tank and DPS are trash and they really are stuck with it. Usually I dps the hell out of stuff when I can but been a number of dungeons where people just can't survive more than 5-10 seconds without needing heals. So I sit there spam healing the morons because otherwise we'd wipe. Tanks and the rest of the group need to learn their balance, just because you CAN wall to wall pull doesn't always mean it's the best option.

- DPS who single target mobs when you have like the entire dungeon on you. = I'm kind of curious about this one. I mean, I know there are times a particular mob takes priority in killing, such as to avoid mass damage. Or thinking back to where I am leveling my rogue/ninja, if you saw me at like 35 you'd see me single target only because it doesn't have aoe yet. But I've yet to see a single person higher level who just mashes single target damage on mobs when there's a whole pack. So I'd really like to hear what you're seeing do it and how often...or if you just had ONE person act up and now you're tossing it out here like it's a common problem.

- Tanks who just sit there and pull 1 group at a time = Ever stop to ask if they are new to tanking? Or perhaps they've been playing other jobs for so long and coming back to it, they are trying to get in the groove. That or healer/dps suck so much they can't feel confident pulling larger. But assuming none of those, just kindly ask if able to pull a bit more if they are comfortable. Either way, tankxiety is a thing and lot of people have been talking about it all over the place.

- People at max level who have no idea how to play their class whatsoever (example: Fire 1 Mage at level 80) = Umm, curious which way you're pointing this out and whether you may not know how to play their job. (Yeah, it's a job, not a class! I mean, if we're getting as picky and annoyed as you're saying you are about people not doing things right). For example, current meta for BLM is for Fire phase to be Fire 4 x6 followed by Fire 1 then it gets into Despair. You can try to check https://www.akhmorning.com/jobs/blm/...tion/#rotation
I mean, that's if you're sitting here saying it's wrong that a lv 80 Mage used Fire 1...in which case you're completely in the wrong.

And I guess you must be an alt. At least I hope you are, otherwise seeming like a troll. I say that because when went to check your character out, see you're only lv 51 Scholar/Arcanist and 15 Goldsmith.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Since the relative nerfs to healer and tank single-target damage (removal of CS, Sword Oath, etc.), literally every dungeon I did while leveling my alt, if at least one DPS had an AoE, the tank full-pulled. All but one was a Sprout, as were most of those I was running with. Yes, that goes as low as Tam-tara.

---

I love watching tanks try to big-pull stone vigil, then the inevitable wipe and the tank sheepishly pulling smaller after that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fellgon

Tutorial to new players are the greens sprouds quests! right in the beguinning of eatch capital. Usually at the inn. I been in 14 since remake of game, past 1.0. The learning curve of skills and dg are very satisfying. No problem to learn, cause i had previous exp with wow.

---

Those don't teach you anything but the basics of the basics. It doesn't teach you about eye gazes, stack markers, proximity attacks, bombs, etc. There's just way too many incredibly vital things that they just tossed into the game without explicitly teaching it to people. It takes the person having to YouTube or have someone share. When I was on Aether, people were complete pricks and expected everyone to know mechanics. Over on Primal, people actually are calm and teach you. It's been night and day between everyone on Aether thinking they are pro gamers and Primal actually kicking butt while making sure to have fun with each other.

I would love an update to Guildhest, or a rebirth of it, that included Savage mechanics. Or maybe a Hall of Extreme/Savage/Ultimate that's more of a simulation room that allows us to specifically learn and practice mechanics from higher tier content, with Trusts as stand-ins for players. I just REALLY want a place where I can familiarize myself with how something works, without first having to get to phase 2 or something of that fight. I can be confident with 93% of a fight BUT this one very specific part.. but in order to get to it again you have to get several minutes or more into the fight just to challenge it again..

I assume this would be in no way easy to program, and as for varying methods on how to handle mechanics there's no way for devs to future proof that. Still it would be appreciated to have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

An intermediate hall needs to be a thing, as does an experts hall. Tie completion of that to being able to mentor people, and tie completion to being able to progress the MSQ. (You may groan at that, but I groan at max levels not having a clue on how to play)

To go at the point of folks potentially being mad at having to do harder content to progress, should games not have scaling difficulty? It just makes sense. If you're a lower level, you get easier content, start to get half way - get some more challenging content, so on and so forth. As it stands, majority of the dungeons in this game are just reskins of one another... Beyond just having higher tiers of halls, there needs to be content that actually requires people to try. (looking at you, hard mode dungeons that dont exist anymore) Not just EX, Savage, and Ultimate.

---

I wouldn't tie them to mentor as people who just want the crown to just have it would still go and do anything you implemented to keep it. Again I would love it if the game would keep a better learning scale. Yet, I remember the amount of threads people made about Steps of Faith before it got nerfed on how hard it was. It was mostly only difficult because it was one of the few and sometimes the first time you actually had to rely on the rest of the group to know their skills, learn the mechanics and work together. We didn't get anything difficult until Bardem's where people were thrown off with how hard everything hit.

Even the Nadhham was hard for some as up to that point even enemies in solo instances melted. The devs have shied away from having any slight increase of difficulty to the point where when people do actually try something harder than what the story gives them they complain about the spike.

To toss in my own 2 cents as a newish player to this game so I'm fresh in the "learning" process, I can see both sides of the coin being discussed here. I ultimately feel there is room for improvement, but contrary to what some folks have pointedly denoted, I feel like there are nicer ways to help the general player base that doesn't rely upon brute force tactics (which others have wisely noted could cause a lot of players to simply leave the game, which causes everyone to lose).

I've gotten 1 class up to lvl.80, BLM, and I found it interesting that for the first few layers of learning the basic rotation that there was a decent amount of in-game info provided to get the rotation down
- However, upon getting into 2nd and especially 3rd tier abilities, namely lvls 60-80, the information provided dropped off dramatically
- It got to a point where I had to spend a sizable chunk of time in-game, reviewing ability tool tips and experimenting with abilities to really get a feel for them
- And even then, I still wound up needing to go to outside 3rd party sites to really learn more of the scope of the abilities and how to really min/max rotations in various scenarios
- All in all, the only way to really get proficient with these additional layers of information required doing a lot of homework, especially outside of the game, which seems pretty counter-intuitive

This last part has stood out the most to me; it isn't even the fact that I had to do research to learn how to layer rotations / abilities based on use-case, but the fact that I had to do it outside of the game itself. It bugs me whenever I have to leave a game to learn that game.

Some of the absolute best games proffer as much information as humanly possible within, which in turn can inspire greater interest to explore more aspects of the game itself since invariably snippets of information can lead to other such snippets.

As for rewards, that's kinda mixed... I like the idea of a personal scaling or scoring system, something that give a player an idea of how they're performing on a technical level. A reward for optimizing rotations, etc. could be cool but also dangerous because depending on how it's set up could lead to equally bad play if not all use-cases / scenarios are mapped out well. And any form of reward applied at a group level would instantly instill the same kind of toxicity that I specifically left WoW to get away from, so I sincerely hope nothing of that level ever gets applied.

I rather like the current system with the Duty Finder; I've found it incredibly helpful to learn from experienced players as I've progressed, and in-turn I'm already getting into scenarios where I'm able to help other new players along (which to me is the best, always feels cooler to know I've helped someone enjoy the game than just me getting some shiny new "thing" I'll be replacing at some point anyway, lol).