Shadowbringers Melee DPS Role: Complaints, Feedback, and Suggestions

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Every class other than monk, that more impact than anything else is questionable at best. Samurai was something like under a percent difference, with DRG similar. Either make them actually meaningful, or get rid of them.

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People complained that positionals were meaningful before, that's why they haven't been willing to try doing that again.

They should make them more meaningful, because no game should be designed to cater to people who literally do not want to try to engage with movement mechanics whatsoever. Those players can play literally every ranged DPS in the game if they hate positionals so much.

For real, they have tried catering to people who HATE Monk since vanilla, and it is STILL one of the most underplayed jobs at 80. Simplifying its kit has historically not worked and never will work.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

It´s getting old but still laughable how many ppl coming out of their holes and crying about positionals. It´s not like FF14 has a strict boss pattern, a strict rotation, laughable stack / spread RNG, bosses which port back to the mid at any big mechanic, and so on. Oh and on top you don´t even need to hit them all to finish any content unless your whole team sucks really that hard.

All in this games cries "Please play positionals to not get bored and fall asleep!". Don´t tell me it´s fun and engaging to play 123 + off GCD when the job gauge is full.
I should really start to copy and paste answers like this:

Better mechanics? You mean something like Mudra, which is unique but nothing but another button in your strict rotation? Or the dragoneye, which is nothing but 2 skills in the strict rotation?
Nothing has more impact to the gameplay than playing positionals. You´ll always have to adjust at any boss mechanics or to tank missplays. And even that has become braindead thx to perma-ports. Any "great mechanics", (and yes i´m still waiting for ideas from that 10 players coming up with the same sentence), will never be better as long as they rely on "click button X at moment Y", not even if it´s RNG procc bs. They won´t even add better boss mechanics, because 99% of all players are not even able to use stuff like Esuna or to use their head for any strategies, smart plays which are not guide / macro based. They would cry the hell out "too difficult". Please guys... please...

I really don´t understand why poeple actually play this game, when all what they want is to stay 24/7 at the boss and spamming 1 button. And "MÄÄÄH" if the tank turns the boss 1 micropixel then, because his cat touched WASD. "MÄÄÄH" if you´ve to move to stack with your healer. "MÄÄÄH" "MÄÄÄÄH" "MÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄH" or better mimimi?
SE should sell a baby-mode like this for any content in the mogry-shop together with some ingame teddy icon as permavisible loot instead of the mount. SE will get rich and better players don´t have to carry such carebears anymore through serious runs, i call that WIN WIN!

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And this kind of salted response is exactly why I rarely engage with people around these forums...

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Originally Posted by Raikai

And this kind of salted response is exactly why I rarely engage with people around these forums...

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Tbh on this thread they are like...the one person who makes all of those type of responses.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Every class other than monk, that more impact than anything else is questionable at best. Samurai was something like under a percent difference, with DRG similar. Either make them actually meaningful, or get rid of them.

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I think you misunderstood.

they are not saying positionals affect the jobs rotation, however, they impact how you PLAY the job around the boss and what it is doing.

It is so much more engaging thinking about, how is the boss about to turn, how is it going to move, is the tank going to have to reposition etc. and adapting your own movement as a result to hit as many positionals as possible. It is this level of play that makes the positionals interesting.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

And this kind of salted response is exactly why I rarely engage with people around these forums...

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Sry but you´re not the first and probably not the last one. It´s just ridiculous how many players started to moan about positionals day per day. There are even 3 (4?) threads permanently discussed.

We´ve talked about pretty much everything around this topic. You don´t have to play them on any class to do a half-way good job to beat the boss. MNK is the only one which is losing much more, but has nothing left but positionals. All just cry "Get ride of them and give us better mechanics!". But noone has even a decent idea, which is not just a job gauge or more brainless off-gcds.

You don´t like them? Don´t play them, that´s a wonderful and easy solution. And all who wants to improve in some way will play them and will adjust to anything what´s thrown on us.

There is no reason every job should get in line with all others for the sake of "gameplay-perfection", which i can just call "braindead". All core jobs are already too similar to each other, all just have off gcd spam and their unique gimmicks have pretty much no impact on the game anymore. The content is even balanced around this strict class design.
How should SE advance any classes, when all just want "that perfect rotation without any issues"? "Better mechanics", for real... which one??!?! If SE brings something challenging, the mimimi about it will be loud, no matter if it´s boss or class design.

I really don´t get why all "gamers" these days are so lazy, don´t want to improve, adapt or just accept things, especially in an easy mode game like FF14 has become. It doesn´t go into my head, that all classes have soooo many issues, just because you´ve 1s downtime, you miss that positional, you´ve to move, whatever. And a tank could be bad? How about a dead healer? It´s a wipe normally... should he get a selfrezz every 10s now? It doesn´t make sense.

Gameplay perfection is straight up boring, because it would last in the said 24/7 one button spam. And if you´ve trouble with the skill levels of other players e.g. bad tanks, you shouldn´t play team-content or tank by yourself.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Tbh on this thread they are like...the one person who makes all of those type of responses.

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Imagine some players would actually start to use their brain and would accept that they´re not the only ones on mother earth who might like / dislike something, things might be different. It´s not about positionals only, it´s about everything what´s going on in this game. Have you seen me opening a thread about casting times, just because i hate them in every way, but would like to play BLM? I guess not, because there are players who enjoy caster-classes how they are.
But there are still ppl around who would even complain about the last missing second of a DoT or whatever. It´s just NOT possible to bring some decent, new, unique or even challenging as long as so many players cry about everything and pretty much search for the last "issue" on any class.
All the complainers are the "big issue". Talking about changes and how good this game could be, how classes should change to grow, whatever. In fact... they´re the reason why nothing evolves, even goes steps back. Proof me wrong if you want. Tanks, Healer, MNK, MCH, and all the boss changes says enough about this. You can even check out the market place. Potions against blind and other stuff? I do even have an ice-def materia. Relicts from better times, when the game had much more possibilities and uniqueness in content and class design.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

snip.

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Nice strawman bro', can I borrow it to scare the crows away ?

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Nice strawman bro', can I borrow it to scare the crows away ?

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But they didn't misrepresent an argument, so no strawmaning here.

However, if you do not agree with what was said, why don't you try and express that and give your feedback/opinions to their points?

There are many many people that do enjoy positionals on melee jobs, myself included and since it is such a unique mechanic, it cannot be replicated with something else.

I also speculate that the majority of players that complain about positionals do not actually play melee jobs on a regular basis. If this is because of positionals, that is fine, the melee role just isn't for you. I don't enjoy healers, I do play the role which I really want to play something different, but I do not get the same joy I get from playing Tanks or melees. That isn't to say something is wrong with the healing role (this has been my opinion since ARR, so ShB changes have not skewed my opinion), it just is not for me.

Oh yes, I aggree that positional are interresting. But they just make a big paragraph just to say "stop complaining, you're stupid". They don't really bring any suggestion or counter argument other that "you complainers are the issue".

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

You can even check out the market place. Potions against blind and other stuff? I do even have an ice-def materia. Relicts from better times, when the game had much more possibilities and uniqueness in content and class design.

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Ah yes, I too remember those halcyon days of those still being almost completely useless.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Ah yes, I too remember those halcyon days of those still being almost completely useless.

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Yeah, pretty much everything, SE could´ve done a lot with, got somehow useless, because the given content is a joke and everything is about damage you don´t even need to clear it. Ppl should´ve claimed "Make use of them!", instead of "Get ride of issue X, fix issue Y, delete "useless" ability Z. So SE cancelled everything into meaningless.
Imagine we would´ve more stuff to care about and in exchange we would´ve more freedom to take care about such things. It would make fights a lot more interesting and challenging, but even somehow forgivable thx to many options to deal with them aka pots, materia or class tools spread over the different jobs.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Oh yes, I aggree that positional are interresting. But they just make a big paragraph just to say "stop complaining, you're stupid". They don't really bring any suggestion or counter argument other that "you complainers are the issue".

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More than enough got said about positionals in more than one thread and not anyone of those "Get ride of them for better mechanics.", could gave an insane idea "how to". I´ve even given myself 2 ideas about DRG / NIN, which would atleast fit the classes way better. But yeah, it seems you´ve read everything so far, but the complaints from ppl moaning about positionals meanwhile playing braindead dungeons all day long.