The Chimera, the Monk and the Guard

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Very well detailed post.

I agree with everything you said, but I need to make just one point.

Nothing beats MNK's single target DPS.

So while MNK isn't ideal for the waves of mobs in the new dungeons, they rock FACE when they are allowed to go all out on a single mob.

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Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I like Monk so much. At least on single opponents I can give it all. :)

About some of the other comments, like I said in the first post I'm absolutely sure that clearing Cutter's Cry with a Monk is doable, but there're the matters I already mentioned, now quoting another adventurer:

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

This isn't terribly helpful at all considering you "making your own party" would still have you trying to convince people to join a group that isn't doing it the "efficient", speed run easy mode way. So you'd still be sitting there with no bites unless you played only with LS members who weren't jerks.

What would be helpful is if A: Community stopped wanting only the easy mode way of doing things and were willing to actually try new setups and strategies and B: SE stopped promoting class stacking, AoE and ranged class spam.

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So, again...

1. It may take a lot of time to “go against the rule”, and it's the time of 7 other adventurers.

2. The average party aims only for the speed run and asks for the usual Jobs.

That video of the Aurum Vale's run with every Job is not something common and that the average adventurer would accept to do. It's going against what the developers had apparently in mind for the instanced raids: Speed Runs AoE Feast.
But I, for one, would prefer over 9000 more a party like that, with 2 White Mages and every other adventurer with a different Job and their shiny AFs, rather than those AoE party that are the trend and that are utterly boring for my Class (like that example I did for my last Aurum Vale party). Even if I manage to find a group, doing almost nothing during the whole run (the others do it for me, as shown in the video I posted with the 4x Flare) and only against the Final Boss is not my definition of Adventure... And, once again, I don't know how even “who has the right Class” can enjoy this AoE routine every single time.


I hope that at least by 2.0 some adjustments will be made to bring more balance in the instanced raids, that's all I'm asking for. If this is not possible then I'd ask for an official statement of Yoshida saying that one Discipline of War at max level is not enough to do all the endgame contents like he originally stated, the situation right now for a Monk trying to find a Princess-Chimera party in Cutter's Cry (and like I said I also started to get refusals for the Vale, due to other Jobs being more requested for the Speed Run).

But if they acknowledge that maybe there's something not right in the current situation of “AoE feast-Speed Run” and if that means to drastically change it, judging by the replies to this thread I've a feeling I won't be the only one to /joydance in his Subligar (and if you don't have a Subligar, I can always make one for you).

/fingerscrossed!

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Originally Posted by Yves

I really do agree with the post. HOWEVER...

This is FF. One of the biggest gripes I had with XI and XIV has been that certain classes will be excluded from certain content. I didn't want to play RNG or SMN in XI but guess what? If you wanted the ACP win you were pretty much stuck with a certain setup (pre-uber patch.) It shouldn't be this way but it is and will likely always be. If you want to experience more success then you need to branch out and have multiple classes - THIS IS WHAT THE ARMORY SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED FOR. Again, I'm not knocking the validity of the post - I just don't see it being probable that single-class players will get very far in this game.

Just watch - Garuda will end up being melee-centric and then suddenly BLM is going to be neglected and we start getting the same issue with another class.

Yes, part of this is a function of the community but I don't think anyone can blame people for wanting to be more efficient. While it is true that people can experiment and explore other options, it seems that the OP is not in this position since they are waiting for /sh groups (generally a dangerous predicament to begin with!) To ask these people to potentially forgo hours of gameplay to test a theory is uncool as the investment will exceed the reward in that you will gain very little (if anything) from practicing 10 runs before getting it down. That would be about 6 hours of total time invested to possibly shave 2-3 min from a run, meaning that, well...you can do the math. The return on investment would take far too long to make any sense.

Yes, it sucks. No, it shouldn't be this way. Yes, it is probably going to stay this way. Yes, you need to level other jobs or find a game that doesn't require this kind of flexibility.

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Agree with this.

I, my-self, love MNK and PGL has been the first class I brought to 50, but after some Ifrit runs, where I was feeling such a pain for the party, I decided to exp CNJ and then THM... exping LNC right now and will follow it with the others.

I cannot wait for more content where to use my MNK, but it is unfair to the party to go with a class which doesn't suite the battle mechanics needed.... I go WHM with my LS CC runs now, and thinking to cure also a close range-dd during Chimera fight sounds so bad for hate control. We get enough hate from just curing the tank already.

So the best is to exp all classes and do what the situation/fight needs. End of the day it really doesn't take long to bring a class from 0 to 50; instead of wasting time waiting for a party to accept you as MNK, you could just invest that time to exp a job useful enough, so to be accepted into any /shout party, next time.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Thats an cop out if you don't think they should make content for all classes to attend. This game wont succeed. As stated in the OP Yoshi-p promised you could play the game fully if you only have 1 battle class to 50 and they seem intent on making fights for melee hell.

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This makes no sense whatsoever. Please read my previous post more carefully.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

I have been tanking chimera as PLD, yes you will end up with slower chimera kill, but it is safer with PLD due to the amount of hate they can generate without the fear of WHMs overcuring and messing up positioning and still achieve speedrun with no issue.

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That's an interesting point considering one of the many problems with PLD is enmity generation. As far as I'm concerned the only legitimate use for PLD at this point in time is being able to gather and hold multiple enemies simultaneously.

Unfortunately it's very hard to balance all encounters for all classes/jobs to be equally useful. However there are some fights that Monk is good at. Ifrit, Moogle and Aurum Vale are some of the areas where Monk shines. Hell I've hit top damage in my group on Ifrit and was a close second last night on Moogle (due to a few miscalculations of mine) and I'm not even using super awesome gear. A skilled Monk can do some really amazing damage in the right situations. Unfortunately Cutter's Cry is really one of those situations that is not optimal for Monk. With all the multi-target mess and AoE damage Monk is really not a great choice.

That being said, I do agree with you that you shouldn't be forced to level multiple other jobs you don't care about just to clear the content because of optimal (and in this case almost required) party setups. I mean I remember when Darkhold came out and PGL was my only 50. For the first few wins, most people didn't know how to do a lot of it without all ranged. So I would just sit around and Accomplice people who were high on hate. It sucked.

I agree with OP in nearly all aspects.
At this time MNK seems to be in a disadvantage as a single-target DD cause this game is made to have a crowd-orientated battlesystem.

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

That's an interesting point considering one of the many problems with PLD is enmity generation. As far as I'm concerned the only legitimate use for PLD at this point in time is being able to gather and hold multiple enemies simultaneously.

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In a fight where the particular mob has big melee defense (ifrit/chima), PLD hate generation has always come on top on a long fight to the point where evading skills arent even necessarry with WHMs curebombung. WAR only triumphs at short fights like clearing small mobs, it also triumphs at dps race fight like misser for an obvious reason.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

In a fight where the particular mob has big melee defense (ifrit/chima), PLD hate generation has always come on top on a long fight to the point where evading skills arent even necessarry with WHMs curebombung. WAR only triumphs at short fights like clearing small mobs, it also triumphs at dps race fight like misser for an obvious reason.

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i dont think so. warrior is by far the better tank, with better damage, a great emnity skill set, and better defense. i hate watching pld hp go up and down like a yoyo. pld is a joke and needs severe help.

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Originally Posted by Squiggles

i dont think so. warrior is by far the better tank, with better damage, a great emnity skill set, and better defense. i hate watching pld hp go up and down like a yoyo. pld is a joke and needs severe help.

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My PLD have 4,5k hp. I am sorry if you have crappy tanks that wears full AF.

And in that 4.5k HP set on PLD you could be wearing a 5k HP set on WAR. I'm interested if enmity generation is better against chimera/ifrit as a PLD vs WAR that is all I care about. Enmity caps. I have been meaning to redo my enmity table in the BG parser and add in an enmity table but then ppl wear enmity gear and it all gets messed up.

I see three reasons why we currently class stack.

1) Instance Raid timer. You have 60 minutes to do a raid. Trying something new wastes a lot of time with this setup. You try something new and it fails on a boss, you are not getting your speed run. It could go so far that you use up your 60 minutes and have reset the instance with a reenter cooldown. In other MMOs, I can try a boss as long as I want and get through parts of the instance as long as I want to try. Forcing me to leave after a timer encourages me not to experiment, for it my wastes my precious time and I get booted out of the place. In short, SE has created a punishment system for not using the known class stacking plan because experimenting and failure is heavily punished.

2) Lock out timer for failures. Why do we get a time out for a failure? We failed the raid, so we can't play again until I think about why I failed? What am I? Five? I already failed, possibly wiped with equipment damage, and didn't get any final boss or primal loot. Do we really need another punishment? I play this game to have fun with my free time, not to wait for a cooldown timer for a punishment.

3) Speed Runs. To get all loot, you must meet an arbitrary time limit. Well, I want all loot, who doesn't? This really just reenforces the previous two issues. You don't meet this tighter time restraint, you can't have all the fun loot.

Why does this encourage class stacking? You loose too much for not doing it.