Keiji Inafune talks about Japanese Games: how it relates to XIV

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Originally Posted by Rane

I agree completely. FF 10 was very linear, and had relatively little free exploration. In some ways, I think it was a precursor to FF 13. The difference is that 1) people still hadn't lost their faith in the FF series when 10 came out, 2) expectations were a bit lower back then, and 3) FF 13 was even more linear than 10.

10 was the first time I couldn't fly around the FF world in my airship--the FF 10 airship was a glorified fast-travel menu. I remember really missing the ability to fly everywhere.

I hope I can play a FF that was as fun as FF 7 again someday in the future.

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Lost Odyssey is as close as we are going to get I reckon lol.

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Originally Posted by Charismatic

This is clearly a lie.
If you liked complete control over your party, you wouldn't have a problem with FF12 for this reason considering the fact that you must actually set up and turn on gambits yourself. Its not like the game automatically puts your characters under AI control, you have to do it yourself.


And heck, its not like you can't turn gambits off once you've enabled them... or even override whatever the comp is doing. Also, its not AI... the gambits quite literally only have the characters do exactly what you've told them to do, they don't think for themselves... it is all up to you.

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AI is based on a set of instructions just like anything else in a video game, true AI in video games doesn't exists because even for NPC's AI has to follow a set of rules.

Gambits are a set of rules which the computer uses to determine the characters actions, its basically AI routines.

I like how you ignored the rest of the post!
(the part about how you had to actually set up gambits yourself though the game doesn't force you to yet claim to like full control... nowhere did the game take that away from you, you took it away from yourself by setting and then enabling gambits which are off by default for the most part)

While what that guy said is certainly true, the part about enjoying older games is a bit flawed.
Admit it, the old FF games had a very simple setup, horrible graphics, and a far less engaging fighting system than anything FFXIV was ever close to, even in beta.
A huge part of what we still enjoy about it is the storyline, the rest is nostalgia, nothing else.
Now you can't do anything about the nostalgia part when creating a new game, but you can at least focus a lot on the story and the characters and work hard to make the player actually CARE about them.
Everytime SE says "We know the part our players like the most about our games are the graphics which are better than any others in the field." some little part inside me dies.
Beautiful graphics are a great thing, they can help to convey emotion, set an atmosphere, etc.
But they are there to back up a great story, not be there instead of it.

A great story is harder to do in an MMO than in an offline title, granted, but for 50 levels, we got nothing but a few random characters with complicated names popping up once or twice, then vanish for another 20 or so levels.
The first characters I actually cared about were those introduced with the Grand Companies; the leaders as well as Cid.
That's why I think we are going into the right direction, but we are far from there yet.
I hope SOMETHING epic happens in the 2.0 storyline on which future expansions could build on, not just "Wait 20 lvls to rescue a few sylphs, then wait another 30 levels to watch a cutscene in which you get blown up without even being allowed to fight."

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Originally Posted by Denmo

I found this Q&A very interesting.





Thinking back to how this game got a 4.0, I think that's what happened. Harsh criticism, and we're seeing a rebound. And what's more:



From what I've seen, Yoshi-P has the right idea on where this game should go. I think they're on the right track, and to hear the above quote from not just a Japanese, but Keiji Inafune, gives me a great deal of hope for 2.0.

But I also see it this way: We shouldn't shy away from being critical about something we feel strongly for (so long as it's constructive). That's what these forums are for. It can't all be hugs and kisses here.

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So what? Japanese devs are better than westeners anyway. The truth hurts , but it's still the truth. While they make one bad game, 10 others are good. The same cant be said about western devs.

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Originally Posted by Noir

So what? Japanese devs are better than westeners anyway. The truth hurts , but it's still the truth. While they make one bad game, 10 others are good. The same cant be said about western devs.

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It's a well known fact that Japanese devs don't have the coding experience withe current systems, such as directX, openGL and windows.

Now you may think pfftttt so what but fact is this generation has been a massive learning curve for JP developers and is part the reason they are behind in high end projects (look how long FFXIII took to come out, look how long versus is taking) I would say the only company that has been ready from day 1 this generation was Capcom and that was thanks to Inafune.

I will agree that JP devs have better artistical style, storyline and overall gameplay elements but it means nothing if the game runs like crap or if the project takes so long to make that it eats into the profit margins.

Of course its not just developers its Japan in general, Sony just announced a 6.4 billion dollars loss this year, as the article says Japan think they are still the top dog, everyone else is spending their money elsewhere though.

Example Sony's TV division has lost money 8 years running.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

A bunch of those games were hyped and failed because they are exactly the same thing, with different premises. AoC/WAR/AION/RIFT/SWTOR, same stuff different label. To be fair, AoC and WAR launched in a bad state but they are still quest on rails games. Every new Call of Duty game is the exact same thing. I see this sheep mentality everywhere. They all flock to the same "new" thing, then complain about whatever they don't like. Once Diablo III is released, everyone will go play that and then some people will complain it's not like II.

I've heard of that silly Mass Effect ending petition, my stance on that is it should be up to the game developers to decide what the ending is. If they cave and change the ending I will lose all respect for BioWare.

The biggest example of messing with the formula is how FFXIV launched. Yeah, that didn't go over too well even if they wanted to "innovate." When was the last time a successful western MMO came out that didn't have the same on rails quest system?
ArenaNet is probably one of the very few western MMO dev that are coming out and saying anything about "innovation."

People played FFXI for a long time as it was a niche game that was different from all the western copypasta quest on rails junk that was primarily being released by the west.

Saying anything is stagnating is subjective. I could say I can't tell a difference between each of Bethesda's new buggy ass games and their old ones, or any of the "new" shooters in a gameplay mechanic sense.

Expectations are a human problem. If you set the bar so high you will probably be disappointed no matter what the game devs come out with.

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Are you expecting MMOs to be a completely different animal every single new one? Of course not, the genre is what it is, those games are far from being the exact same thing, they all have at least ONE or two features or more that set them apart, that appeal to a certain audience, something very important especially for an MMO. For a game like Mass Effect not so much, and I wonder if you have played Mass effect to any length? Because it does something that very few games come close to or as well. The ending is worthy of the criticism believe me and Bioware has listened. Something Japanese devs could really benefit from and Yoshi-P clearly also takes to heart.

To me Japanese games right now tend to be a bit homogenized, very similar and antiquated. I'm having fun in ICO again and finding that game as old as it is still fresh... That tells me something is amiss. And no stagnation is an observation of an occurrence not a subjective opinion. Or maybe it is.. Because the way YOU view western games is the way I view Japanese games.... O.o

I agree with you on expectations but at the same time, if you shoot for the moon and miss you'll still end up among the stars, right? We move forward by striving to better ourselves.

edit: Right I had bolded Arenanet because as awesome as I think GW2 is going to be I am cautioning people that it really won't be the new Messiah of MMOs, it's an advanced version of GW2 and a lot of fun no doubt, and beautiful but I'm concerned that people think they are reinventing MMO gaming... They're not.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

It's a well known fact that Japanese devs don't have the coding experience withe current systems, such as directX, openGL and windows.

Now you may think pfftttt so what but fact is this generation has been a massive learning curve for JP developers and is part the reason they are behind in high end projects (look how long FFXIII took to come out, look how long versus is taking) I would say the only company that has been ready from day 1 this generation was Capcom and that was thanks to Inafune.

I will agree that JP devs have better artistical style, storyline and overall gameplay elements but it means nothing if the game runs like crap or if the project takes so long to make that it eats into the profit margins.

Of course its not just developers its Japan in general, Sony just announced a 6.4 billion dollars loss this year, as the article says Japan think they are still the top dog, everyone else is spending their money elsewhere though.

Example Sony's TV division has lost money 8 years running.

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Those games take longer because they are RPGs. And square always AAA. They always try to innovate and create new gameplay styles. That's why it should take longer. I don't mind the wait. The only mistake they made was announce it. Creates expectation because people are impatient. You can't compare square which runs 5-10 projects at the same time, with a company like naughty dog, which runs 1-2 titles the most at the same time for example. Or compare With activation which milk the same COD engine for 10 years. Square used the same engine for final fantasy xiii-2 and the game took little over a year for completion. It was good, but that's not what I expect from square. We always expect innovation and not AAA game, but a AAAA game. Yes, in a market that calls Call of duty AAA, final fantasy should be called AAAA. At least final fantasy xiii and versus. Due to the level of polish and care.

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Originally Posted by Noir

So what? Japanese devs are better than westeners anyway. The truth hurts , but it's still the truth. While they make one bad game, 10 others are good. The same cant be said about western devs.

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Originally Posted by Noir

Those games take longer because they are RPGs. And square always AAA. They always try to innovate and create new gameplay styles. That's why it should take longer. I don't mind the wait. The only mistake they made was announce it. Creates expectation because people are impatient. You can't compare square which runs 5-10 projects at the same time, with a company like naughty dog, which runs 1-2 titles the most at the same time for example. Or compare With activation which milk the same COD engine for 10 years. Square used the same engine for final fantasy xiii-2 and the game took little over a year for completion. It was good, but that's not what I expect from square. We always expect innovation and not AAA game, but a AAAA game. Yes, in a market that calls Call of duty AAA, final fantasy should be called AAAA. At least final fantasy xiii and versus. Due to the level of polish and care.

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I keep forgetting that this level of fan-dumb is to be expected on a Final Fantasy forum.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

I keep forgetting that this level of fan-dumb is to be expected on a Final Fantasy forum.

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You silly ,silly Lala! XD

Well, RPG's were actaully a Japanese game companies strong point. I have to agreee about the other asian markets games.

Now to me XI had alot more to offer then EVE, WOw and other MMO's. After beig nstornger in XI, games liek WOW were just mediocre, casual MMO's. It's fine for the Hyped, my friends play it younger crowd, but XI was mroe hardcore, indepth and had a MUCH stronger community effort.

Now many of the tiles,Minus WOW, are NOT American titles. European yes, American no. Actaully the devloper teams are mixed in race from many regions for higher end titles.

Some of the earlier strogner story writers of Final Fantasy are gone, but some from XI are back and working on XIV now. The sad truth is, the Father of Final Fantasy has moved on to his own company a long tiem ago. You can see his imfluence and the orginal style (turn based) in the title Lost Odyseey. I am jsut glad Nubuo is still doing music on both sides.

I have alot of Japanese friends, and they simply do nto feel that way. THey play many titles including other mmo's. Yet I stick by there side when you try to compare XI to wow. WOW was just.. meeeh.... We will have to see what another other asian title... Guild Wars 2, can really become. The closed beta has it's issues hince delays, and we don't want another Aion, or a free to play but put in money to get better stuff faster game.