What do you guys think is the cause of severe lack of Tank users?

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Originally Posted by Jimmymagic

This is total bs dude. Tanks pull first. Please stop this ridiculous argument and if you have your healer pulling for you than your a lazy tank or incompetent one. There are roles for a reason. Bad habits of overgeared dps and heals thinking tank doesn't matter until they do seriously this debate is nonsense.

Let me be very clear. Dps = damage this is your job Heals = keep everyone alive, remove status ailments when possible and rez when needed Tank = pulls mob holds agro and pos mob/boss for rest of group.

If you don't want to do your job unsync, trusts, GC Squad or get an fc/linkshell group to put up with this blatant disrespect/trolling. DO NOT PULL FOR TANK and if tanks are asking you to pull that's not real tank.

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Why though? I get that Tanks will usually be the ones that pull since it makes most sense, but what does it matter when healer decides that group can pull more? I feel like people care too much about etiquette n stuff when it's a game and it doesn't matter, as well as increases efficiency and decrease the risk of healer falling asleep.

Remember healer that fell asleep won't be able to heal you which will perhaps lead to party dying.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Why though? I get that Tanks will usually be the ones that pull since it makes most sense, but what does it matter when healer decides that group can pull more? I feel like people care too much about etiquette n stuff when it's a game and it doesn't matter, as well as increases efficiency and decrease the risk of healer falling asleep.

Remember healer that fell asleep won't be able to heal you which will perhaps lead to party dying.

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Same motto I give to people in raids.

Don't adjust for someone else doing it wrong, because when you inevitably die, it means its both of your faults instead of just theirs.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Same motto I give to people in raids.

Don't adjust for someone else doing it wrong, because when you inevitably die, it means its both of your faults instead of just theirs.

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Nobody will die if the healer knows what they're doing. Only thing that gets hurt is the tank's ego or comfort, meanwhile dps increases for which the dps are thankful.

Honestly I shouldn't get back in this discussion cause have already gone over it extensively in that thread I created about this. It just still baffles me how it's such an issue to some and I shouldn't be surprised anymore after my conclusion in that thread.

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Originally Posted by MaxDetroit

If you play tank these days you need to have a thick fur and as sad as it is, you need to be in the mindset: "I decicde know how this Dungeon / Raid is played, and the rest has to shut up and follow."

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Thick fur, yes absolutely.
That mindset? No. You're part of a team, you're not a leader. Just because you're on the frontline and pulling doesn't mean you indicate how it's going to go down. A good tank is going to be able to adjust based on party needs. Most parties need big pulls.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Nobody will die if the healer knows what they're doing. Only thing that gets hurt is the tank's ego or comfort, meanwhile dps increases for which the dps are thankful.

Honestly I shouldn't get back in this discussion cause have already gone over it extensively in that thread I created about this. It just still baffles me how it's such an issue to some and I shouldn't be surprised anymore after my conclusion in that thread.

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Yeah good luck with a healer taking auto attacks from the boss.
Its one of the responsiblities of a tank to set the tempo of a dungeon or a raid. You don't like it? Then tank. Simple as that. Tanks look at their gear and their healers' gear to then make a series of decisions baised off that information. That is what a good tank does. They dictate the flow of the fight because they are the ones getting hit, and positioning. Everyone will die if a healer dies, but if a tank dies in a raid that doesn't mean the end because you have a second one. A healer dies the other healer will struggle to keep up and recover.

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Originally Posted by Jimmymagic

This is total bs dude. Tanks pull first. Please stop this ridiculous argument and if you have your healer pulling for you than your a lazy tank or incompetent one. There are roles for a reason. Bad habits of overgeared dps and heals thinking tank doesn't matter until they do seriously this debate is nonsense.

Let me be very clear. Dps = damage this is your job Heals = keep everyone alive, remove status ailments when possible and rez when needed Tank = pulls mob holds agro and pos mob/boss for rest of group.

If you don't want to do your job unsync, trusts, GC Squad or get an fc/linkshell group to put up with this blatant disrespect/trolling. DO NOT PULL FOR TANK and if tanks are asking you to pull that's not real tank.

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This is "bs". There is only one duty, and that is to make the run/completion as quick as possible (when also accounting for time lost to deaths/wipes).

Tanks tank because it makes the run faster to do so than to take a 3rd DPS instead. Healers are there because 4 DPS cannot simply burn the boss before one or more die and a healer's dps, even while sufficient to keep everyone up, is greater than the dps that would be dealt if even a single dps were to earlier than half-way through the fight when averaged over the full fight. They are more efficient, taken sparingly, than DPS. If they were not, they would not be there.

That does not mean the duty for tanks and healers stops with just taking threat and mitigating or healing others, respectively. Everyone's purpose for being there is efficiency. Efficiency obliges we take a tank and healer. Efficiency then obliges that the tank pulls, damages, and mitigates and the healer heals and damages in whatever way speeds along the run the most.

We can fall short of being optimal -- it's just a casual dungeon, after all -- but it is no less the expectation for tanks and healers to, say, dps and to deal with the largest pull size reliably manageable given decent (not even optimal, but merely competent) play than for DPS to do so.

And given that life or death will ultimately come down to the healer, by mere fact that their resources are far less finite than the tank's, there is nothing wrong with them noting that the tank is playing under an irrational or uninformed fear and duly compensating. They should pull for a tank that is being needlessly timid, whether on forum-brand "principle", the "muh immersion" factor, or even just underestimating the healer's capabilities.

Just wanna say for those heals/dps who pull for the tank, you could always try communicating first. Saying "I'm pulling because I know we can handle it" is just as rude as a tank saying "You pull it you tank it." Doesn't matter how justified you think you are.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Same motto I give to people in raids.

Don't adjust for someone else doing it wrong, because when you inevitably die, it means its both of your faults instead of just theirs.

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If one is refusing to fix or compensate for bad play and thereby make the run more efficient just because they might get smeared a bit, too, if the tank especially poops the bed, isn't that exactly the excessive fear over etiquette that Sam was talking about?

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

Just wanna say for those heals/dps who pull for the tank, you could always try communicating first. Saying "I'm pulling because I know we can handle it" is just as rude as a tank saying "You pull it you tank it." Doesn't matter how justified you think you are.

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They both involve neglect over one's role.

The sad thing is, in both cases, it's the tank who's being negligent.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

Yeah good luck with a healer taking auto attacks from the boss.
Its one of the responsiblities of a tank to set the tempo of a dungeon or a raid. You don't like it? Then tank. Simple as that. Tanks look at their gear and their healers' gear to then make a series of decisions baised off that information. That is what a good tank does. They dictate the flow of the fight because they are the ones getting hit, and positioning. Everyone will die if a healer dies, but if a tank dies in a raid that doesn't mean the end because you have a second one. A healer dies the other healer will struggle to keep up and recover.

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Woah there don't pull a straw man on me. Raids or boss fights have nothing to do with that conversation. We're talking about mob pulls here.

And you're right that's what a good tank does. What if your tank doesn't though? You're standing there spamming your AoE dps as healer with your thick gear, seeing tank barely takes a dent while that next delicious mob pull is just one DoT away, you realize how much dps is going to waste, how much potential is lost with those AoEs missing half their value. Meanwhile you can feel your head starting to doze off to sleep as the 1 button spamming is putting you in a trance. You know full well you can tank that set of mobs for bunch of hits or handle the situation if chaos ensues as healer. Do you pull or no?

Of course you don't, because you don't want to hurt the tank their feelings or damage their ego. Just to avoid a conflict. That's the sad reality.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

They both involve neglect over one's role.

The sad thing is, in both cases, it's the tank who's being negligent.

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They're just examples. Point is, don't be an asshole. Use words. There are other people playing this game besides yourself, it's not all about what you want (not you Shurrikhan, general you, lol).