What healers could stand to lose.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

I guess? It's just a suggestion, not necessarily something I want, but if the only difference between lilies and aetherflow is pressing a single button, then they're already practically the same mechanic. I only suggest it so there isn't an excuse of "muh button bloat".

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To be fair it also gives back 10% MP though dunno how useful that is.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

To be fair it also gives back 10% MP though dunno how useful that is.

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Right, and I did say to keep that if they get rid of the button. Literally have it do exactly what it does now, just automatically instead of manually.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

This is purely speculative and currently based on ShB.

Whm
-Cure, trait now straight up just upgrades cure to cure 2, cure just doesn't have potency for ShB content
-cure 3, very niche and all healing done by this can be done by stuff like medica and medica 2 and assize
-fluid aura, even more niche
-Planeary indulgence, adds to ogcd bloat just not needed.

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I will comment on WHM:

Medica and Medica II have the same cast and recast time meaning oGCDs can not be weaved into them.
Cure I, II, and III all have lower cast times allowing oGCDs to be weaved.
PPP is around 40 - 45 at iLvL470 in a savage raid.
Eden Savage is overloaded with places one can Cure III

Cure is your fastest cast-time spell and still can give you freecures.
Savage isn't the only content in the game.
As a joke, when a tank does not pull everything in a dungeon...I just sit there casting cure 1 + regen (and it works) to send the message that they need to pull more.
If they pull everything, then I will holy spam and go all-in.

Fluid Aura (Needs a permanent long-term redesign)
Planery (Simply Amazing)

Planery takes what WHM is good at, and makes it even better......Raw Healing! It helps us do our job better and recover the HP of the party while the SCH or AST focuses on shielding the party (without needing to focus on also raw healing the group).

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Originally Posted by Stabby-Chan

... and recover the HP of the party while the SCH or AST focuses on shielding the party (without needing to focus on also raw healing the group).

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I could go through everything wrong with your statement but I wanted to focus on this.

SCH and AST don’t focus on shielding - we Shield when there is lethal damage incoming and no other time, because it’s vastly more inefficient than health healing. With tools like Whispering Dawn, Sacred Soil, and Earthly Star that heal so much health, why would I waste my time and mana on Succor/Asp.Helios?

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Because we’re told the game is balanced around savage/ex.

And they are off my bar. When a skill is dead 95% of the time why have it? Delete or change it. But I’m a guy that also thinks Shield Bash should be removed.

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If a skill is also only useful in savage or EX content then they should also remove it, since that means it is also dead the majority of the time as per your though here. The jobs being designed pretty solely for Savage or EX content is actually it's biggest hindrance. It stifles creativity and has led to the jobs all being so DPS focused that there is no room for things like crowd control or really meaningful AoE skills because these things are not necessary for Savage content.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

If a skill is also only useful in savage or EX content then they should also remove it, since that means it is also dead the majority of the time as per your though here. The jobs being designed pretty solely for Savage or EX content is actually it's biggest hindrance. It stifles creativity and has led to the jobs all being so DPS focused that there is no room for things like crowd control or really meaningful AoE skills because these things are not necessary for Savage content.

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See I’m in agreement here but with the community so focused on damage I don’t think the Devs could change it without backlash or even feel like they need to.

So we get skills that are only used in savage(or at least are able to hit their peak use) and the barebones to get there along with skills that are there for lore and no other reason. It’s a mess.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

If a skill is also only useful in savage or EX content then they should also remove it, since that means it is also dead the majority of the time as per your though here. The jobs being designed pretty solely for Savage or EX content is actually it's biggest hindrance. It stifles creativity and has led to the jobs all being so DPS focused that there is no room for things like crowd control or really meaningful AoE skills because these things are not necessary for Savage content.

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Last time I checked, most jobs are balanced around EX / Savage / Ultimate and ultimately are so dps-focused because that is frankly how you beat fights. Enrages, dps checks, faster killtime to see less mechanics in a fight, SKIPPING mechanics...

If you need to CC in a fight, you have two stuns, two silences and two sleeps per group without counting individual job skills or dps utility. We already have all tools to deal with CC requirements, it is just that fights never really got designed around having to use them bar silences since I think Gordias raids. An option would be.more Siege-style raids where you primarily need to defend an objective and use CC to deal with hordes or certain enemy spawns efficiently.

But apart from that, why would it matter if a skill is less relevant in 4man or generally casual content than in raids?

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Last time I checked, most jobs are balanced around EX / Savage / Ultimate and ultimately are so dps-focused because that is frankly how you beat fights. Enrages, dps checks, faster killtime to see less mechanics in a fight, SKIPPING mechanics...

If you need to CC in a fight, you have two stuns, two silences and two sleeps per group without counting individual job skills or dps utility. We already have all tools to deal with CC requirements, it is just that fights never really got designed around having to use them bar silences since I think Gordias raids. An option would be.more Siege-style raids where you primarily need to defend an objective and use CC to deal with hordes or certain enemy spawns efficiently.

But apart from that, why would it matter if a skill is less relevant in 4man or generally casual content than in raids?

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What we end up with are not skills that are less relevant just skills that are seemingly overpowered. That is what really is making other content seem trivial or too easy, these jobs are all designed around one high end encounter, any other content they are used in is treated as just being coincidental.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

What we end up with are not skills that are less relevant just skills that are seemingly overpowered. That is what really is making other content seem trivial or too easy, these jobs are all designed around one high end encounter, any other content they are used in is treated as just being coincidental.

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None of the new skills that we got enable anything new to be done, and a lot of the tools that Scholar and Astrologian lost in Shadowbringers (Rouse, Fairy Deploy, 150pot Collective, C. Opposition. Not even mentioning Role Actions) were stronger than what we've gained. White Mage, the outlier, didn't lose much but even then Afflatus skills are just damage-efficient Cure2 and Medica1.

Edit: Aside from Sacred Soil. But Sacred Soil is stupid and deserves to have been nerfed in 5.05.

What I’m saying is - the difficulty is not because of the new healing tools available. Non-ultimate content is just being made easier. Blaming the ‘savage/ultimate tuning’ boogeyman is pointless, because it’s not about them and just drives to put a wedge in the player base.

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Originally Posted by Irenia

From what I can tell, it's because they feel that unless your main heal is a GCD heal, you less of a healer than one that does. It was the vibe that I got reading the BLU healer thread on this forum, at least, given that job can only GCD heal, and it was seen as a step in the right direction.

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It's not just your heals being only GCD heals. As a BLU (healer) you also have up to 5 (currently) damage OGCDs. You have your 2 parts combo DoT to maintain. You have 2 spells with matching cooldowns to weave said OGCDs. You can do a lot of stuff during downtime and not just press 1 button over and over.
Also you have decent ward and White Wind which potentially can be an AoE Benediction, if used right.