Bard's Thematic Future

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

No. You are severely underestimating the work required. Despite all the changes Machinist underwent, it retained all its lore and reused several animations. Furthermore, you assume no other jobs will need substantial work themselves yet we need only look at the healers to argue quite the contrary. Not only has there been plenty of contempt towards their changes, it's likely a fourth will be added. And we know how difficult a time the dev team has had balancing healers. Regardless, it's shoehorning a bastardized version of Ranger onto a pre-existing Bard to promptly make a bastardized version of new Bard. The probability of this is precisely zero. If they had any aspirations of implementing Ranger, it would have been done by now, or even hinted at. They don't. You keep insisting people who prefer "Bard" will still have their lore if your idea did pan out. However, what about those who like the duo integration? They enjoy being both a Bard and an Archer/Ranger. That aspect is gone all because you want your version of a job. Considering the backlash the dev team would incur, it only adds to the sheer unlikeliness even if it were remotely feasible.

Put simply. It will not happen. If they add a musical themed job again, it will be entirely separate from Bard. And Ranger will inevitably exist within current Bard.

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That was also a suggestion I brought up that everyone ignored.

Leave Bard be and just add in Musician, Flautist, Minstrel, Melodist, Harmonist, or something like that. Have a true-to-it's name musician and leave Bard as an archer who maybe sings once in a while.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

That was also a suggestion I brought up that everyone ignored.

Leave Bard be and just add in Musician, Flautist, Minstrel, Melodist, Harmonist, or something like that. Have a true-to-it's name musician and leave Bard as an archer who maybe sings once in a while.

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Probably because your suggestion also involved gutting BRD and relegating it to little more than “a misnomer”. People are advocating against destroying the job. Not for it.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Probably because your suggestion also involved gutting BRD and relegating it to little more than “a misnomer”. People are advocating against destroying the job. Not for it.

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Why not have 3 jobs then? 1 Dedicated Ranger, 1 Dedicated Musician, and a Bard that flexes. Everyone wins then

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

That was also a suggestion I brought up that everyone ignored.

Leave Bard be and just add in Musician, Flautist, Minstrel, Melodist, Harmonist, or something like that. Have a true-to-it's name musician and leave Bard as an archer who maybe sings once in a while.

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I think BRD in XIV drew a lot from FFIV's Edward Chris von Muir. The famous "Spoony Bard". So, I don't see why insist on separating one from the other.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

I think BRD in XIV drew a lot from FFIV's Edward Chris von Muir. The famous "Spoony Bard". So, I don't see why insist on separating one from the other.

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Besides their Artifact Gear, I don't see anything that even remotely resemble's Edward in Bard's kit.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Unfortunately for you, the developers decided about 7 years ago to make Bard stem from Archer. Not Ranger, but Bard. Bards utilize a harp less now than they did in ARR, HW, or even SB: at least then, their support was tied to the harp weapon despite it not being a sort of main or offhand. With SB, they also got flutes.

The point of my entire argument is that individuals that want Ranger are being selfish by trying to oust Bard out of the “specific spot” it’s had since 1.20. They aren’t considering what BRD players want; they are just thinking about what they want. And apparently it’s not enough to have Ranger as a separate thing. As I said repeatedly: why are Bards the ones who have to give up their already established job (and everything along with it) to please those who want Ranger?

Clearly you must think it’s special enough to advocate for taking it away from Bard for Ranger as opposed to Ranger being a 6.0/7.0 job.

Speaking for myself: I’m pleased with the hybrid design. I like BRD wielding a bow and arrow, and I don’t see said weapon being exclusive to a Ranger. So the argument about how Bards can’t be bow wielders seems weak to me. Implementing more harp/flute aspects is perfectly fine. But there’s little need to take the bow away and give it to Ranger. Especially since I think a crossbow would be far more suiting.

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Also speaking for myself, I love the design of Bard in this game too. This is by far the most interesting Archer class I've played in any MMO, and I'd rather not see it get pointlessly destroyed and split into two classes that are likely to be designed to generic standards and with inferior mechanics and gameplay. Bard design is literally already a Ranger with songs instead of pets anyway, I feel like some of the hand-wringing over this just revolves around the fact that it's literally called Bard instead of Ranger.

(Hyomin and I have both cleared UwU as Bards as well, I'm fairly sure the developers are more inclined to listen to people who are actually passionate about the class, over someone from the outside that wants to gut it.)

On another note, to drive home the point that splitting them is actually a lot harder than what people here may think, I challenge you all to come up with exact ideas on how this should be done. Instead of the usual 'I want this to be done, I'll leave it to the devs to figure out the logistics themselves'. I spent the last two nights coming up with ideas on what could be done with current Bard, and that's a lot easier on the developers than what some of you are proposing. And yet it still requires a ton of thought.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5167612
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5168653

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

On another note, to drive home the point that splitting them is actually a lot harder than what people here may think, I challenge you all to come up with exact ideas on how this should be done. Instead of the usual 'I want this to be done, I'll leave it to the devs to figure out the logistics themselves'. I spent the last two nights coming up with ideas on what could be done with current Bard, and that's a lot easier on the developers than what some of you are proposing. And yet it still requires a ton of thought.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5167612
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5168653

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To piggy back on the ideas Saito has brainstormed, it also falls on the developers to balance any gameplay changes that are implemented. This is crucial to prevent BRD from dominating the physical ranged spot, as it has wont to do. As we are seeing in Shadowbringers, balance is not easily obtained.

However, reworking BRD to be more BRD-y is far less work than the Archer > Ranger and Bard split people are advocating for in this discussion. Even with the difficulty of attempting to make BRD more like its namesake (and not be a clunky and/or busted mess).

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Besides their Artifact Gear, I don't see anything that even remotely resemble's Edward in Bard's kit.

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Good to know you don't see it. But bard, using bows and instruments crafted as bows is one of the things that appeals to people in this game. And after this game has established much of its content as its design and being a game that likes to "bring back the themes that are popular in Final Fantasy" its difficult to be partisan with you when you want one thing, regardless of what its lost in the process.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Also speaking for myself, I love the design of Bard in this game too. This is by far the most interesting Archer class I've played in any MMO, and I'd rather not see it get pointlessly destroyed and split into two classes that are likely to be designed to generic standards and with inferior mechanics and gameplay. Bard design is literally already a Ranger with songs instead of pets anyway, I feel like some of the hand-wringing over this just revolves around the fact that it's literally called Bard instead of Ranger.

(Hyomin and I have both cleared UwU as Bards as well, I'm fairly sure the developers are more inclined to listen to people who are actually passionate about the class, over someone from the outside that wants to gut it.)

On another note, to drive home the point that splitting them is actually a lot harder than what people here may think, I challenge you all to come up with exact ideas on how this should be done. Instead of the usual 'I want this to be done, I'll leave it to the devs to figure out the logistics themselves'. I spent the last two nights coming up with ideas on what could be done with current Bard, and that's a lot easier on the developers than what some of you are proposing. And yet it still requires a ton of thought.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5167612
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5168653

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Challenge accepted, see you in a few hours.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

Good to know you don't see it. But bard, using bows and instruments crafted as bows is one of the things that appeals to people in this game. And after this game has established much of its content as its design and being a game that likes to "bring back the themes that are popular in Final Fantasy" its difficult to be partisan with you when you want one thing, regardless of what its lost in the process.

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What frustrates me about this statement is that it kinda sounds like this: "Wow, so you really can't see the resemblance to Edward? Well there are resemblances, but instead of explaining them to defend my point and show you what your'e missing, I'm just going to reiterate that people like a bow that is also a harp." Which by the way is only true for a handful of artifact weapons. Not all artifact weapons, just a few. 95% percent of bows are literally just bows.

I agree that it would've been a very interesting way to bridge the two archetypes... if it actually influenced anything about Bard's abilities and identity instead of just be a mild cosmetic attachment.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

(Hyomin and I have both cleared UwU as Bards as well, I'm fairly sure the developers are more inclined to listen to people who are actually passionate about the class, over someone from the outside that wants to gut it.)

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This is unrelated and uncalled for. SE takes feedback from its entire userbase equally, and have even stated as much in the past. There is no reason to try and belittle someone or their ideas whether or not you have cleared UwU or anything else for that matter. You can be just as passionate about a job as someone else no matter if you clear endgame raids or stick to dungeons. Clearing endgame does not give you the right to call someone an outsider.