SE needs to do more to help bad players

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

Oh yeah. I mention that in my post. Players who are actively attempting to get better and adjust and learn from their mistakes are, imo, not bad players. Being new has never been an excuse in my eyes as to playing extremely poorly. We all started this game with varying amounts of knowledge, but of no actual experience playing FFXIV and many of us have improved. If a player is new, and you mention they should do something or x is better than y and they straight ignore it or argue with you then they are a bad player, if they respond and/or ask questions and want to learn the game then they are a good player.

Some people may say they are bad, but if you suggest to them something or give them tips and the response and improve then they are not a "bad" player.

This is all my opinion btw.

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I don't think simply telling someone that they're doing something wrong constitutes "opening their eyes" though. The players I am talking about may very well reject advice. The issue is that from their perspective, which doesn't include an understanding of how much this stuff matters, someone giving unsolicited advice–advice that often seems rather minor at that–simply makes you look intrusive and overly concerned. This view is reinforced by the plethora of stories of harassment from rampaging elitists or w/e that I'm sure we're all familiar with by now. Until they encounter something that causes them to have that epiphany that this stuff really does make a very noticeable difference, they may very well just ignore or rebuff advice for roughly the same reason most people don't use raid food and potions in dungeons: it's seen as unnecessary and doesn't enhance their fun, even if strictly speaking it's better. I think basically writing them off as hopeless is probably the worst way to handle such a player. Instead, a bit of patience and understanding, as well as giving them some room to breathe and kind of explore the game, will probably go a long way.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

So it's not your responsibility to avoid damage that you can avoid? In that case, it's not the Healer's responsibility to fix your mistake. Heal yourself.

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That statement is completely inane. You're the one trying to make the case that Healers don't need to dps because their job is to heal. So by your own logic, and by the very name of the role, it's the Healer's job to heal, not the other player's.

If you, as someone who doesn't see dps as a requirement for Healers, also tell a dps to "heal yourself", how do you even justify the existence of the Healer role?

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Originally Posted by Machka

That statement is completely inane. You're the one trying to make the case that Healers don't need to dps because their job is to heal. So by your own logic, and by the very name of the role, it's the Healer's job to heal, not the other player's.

If you, as someone who doesn't see dps as a requirement for Healers, also tell a dps to "heal yourself", how do you even justify the existence of the Healer role?

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You must be Gumby, stretching like that.
I'm not making a case for Healers to not DPS. Only someone looking for a fight would say this.
My reply was to someone who literally said that it's not the responsibility of DPS to avoid damage. If they're not going to do the bare minimum for their role, they can eat the floor.

And it's not a matter of whether I believe it's a requirement for Healers to DPS. It 100% is not a requirement. It is preferred. There is a difference. But you're eager for a fight and therefore you twist my words.

I don't have to justify not healing someone who refuses to do even the barest minimum required of literally everyone. Anyone who plays a Healer will tell you there comes a point where you let the DPS eat floor if they refuse to even try to avoid damage.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Considering how little DPS Healers are actually able to contribute, if this is what is causing the mobs to take forever to die, you have bigger issues than a Healer not DPSing.

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You haven't been playing with very good healers. Granted overall healer dps is a bit down relative to everyone else in this expansion it is certainly not insignificant. Especially on trash pulls.

Back to the original topic though, I think many players don't realized how bad they are. They are hitting buttons, mobs are dying, how are they to know that in fact they are doing horrible dps and are being carried by the others? The game could at least tell the player how they are doing as other mentioned. It is beyond bewildering to me this game has enrage mechanics yet provide nothing that would help a team hitting enrage how to actually succeed.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

You must be Gumby, stretching like that.
I'm not making a case for Healers to not DPS. Only someone looking for a fight would say this.
My reply was to someone who literally said that it's not the responsibility of DPS to avoid damage. If they're not going to do the bare minimum for their role, they can eat the floor.

And it's not a matter of whether I believe it's a requirement for Healers to DPS. It 100% is not a requirement. It is preferred. There is a difference. But you're eager for a fight and therefore you twist my words.

I don't have to justify not healing someone who refuses to do even the barest minimum required of literally everyone. Anyone who plays a Healer will tell you there comes a point where you let the DPS eat floor if they refuse to even try to avoid damage.

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Exactly this, Heal can do DPS if needed but i only see bashing on them here once again, people pushign the Healer DPS subject because it fits there view, yet both Tanks and DD's get ingored of there responsiblity to avoid damage so Healers could DPS at all, healers are far more limited now as before in such on top. And i dare to say that most people who complain about Healers not DPSing not even look why they don't, since the new addon i expereince heavy mana problems in most of the instances, i simply can't Damage often due eather run out of mana or i know i will need my mana for some Wipe pase etc. Most who complain about Healer DPS probably not even see that a Healer is out of mana.

Yes there ate bad healers ot say but so do exist bad tanks and dps, but for god sake we focus on healing still, dps is fine if able to but we also have to take responsiblity of those who also refuse to avoid damage, if someone not does his job also i refuse to do mine, simple as it is, learning the hard way, if you not avoid damage you die and i not waste mana on dps because some DD thinks healer will fix his mistakes. Everyone is to blame then, not just healers.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

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I mean you literally said a healer dps is not a requirement but dps avoiding damage is a requirement. Based off what you said and how it was worded in I believe your second or third post, that guy is right.

It's not a 100% requirement for dps to dodge mechanics, it's preferred. If they take damage the healer heals them. If they die, that's what you have a rez skill for.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Personally I think they’ve done quite enough to help casual or bad players, lol

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There's literally nothing else you can do.
You can put text on the screen (Steps did this and lo and behold that got nerfed)
to tell you what to do and people still failed it.
Got folks at level 80 and classes maxed, playing since 1.0 days STILL not stacking, still
not turning from the eye mechs, still not moving from AoE's.
Can't help people who can't help themselves and need to stop having their hands held for so long.

The only solution is for the community to kick more carries. The mindset needs to change at the upper end from "maybe they're just stupid/can't read" to "they've had long enough to learn" when someone hasn't learned to AOE by 70+.

Exile people that refuse to learn, and they'll quit, drop to trusts, or just not participate in higher level content after enough kicks. Either way is positive for the rest of us.

Another one of these?

https://thoroedge.files.wordpress.co...-gif.gif?w=604

Oh no bad players!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__oqV_kUSrw...nover+fist.jpg

Hangings to good for em!
Burnin to good for em!
They should be torn into itty bitty pieces..

AND BURIED ALIVE!

This is why you simply join a company of like minded players. If someone is not up to your skill level, changing the game isn't going to suddenly boost their skill level. I mean, they aren't bad really, they just lack certain skill sets to complete said needs. Prime example, ran The Ghimlyt Dark, healer kept dying non stop on last boss. I was patient, far more patient then DPS as they left one by one, to explain each mechanic, posting in chat when said mechanics were about to happen.

The healer still kept dying. Consistently. Changing the game would not fix that I am afraid. We finally beat it, by myself as the Tank and a lone DPS living to the final phase as others died, resulting finally in a victory. I do understand the frustration some experience though, since keep in mind, The Ghimlyt Dark has a 90 minute dungeon timer, and we beat it with 17 minutes left.