Time to expand a little on my comments about SE needing to hire a healer designer.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

The only reason I feel the need to correct what you say, despite us both understanding what u mean, is that there are plenty who dont understand what u mean, and take it too literal.

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Ok.

That's fair.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

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And you can go into a more hot (dot) style / channel based healers and dps casters as well.

But I don't know if this engine with it's terrible netcode could support it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And you can go into a more hot (dot) style / channel based healers and dps casters as well.

But I don't know if this engine with it's terrible netcode could support it.

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Oh yeah I agree. I just brought up the more basic obvious ones, based on what we currently already have. GNB will essentially be "more of the same" while SE says they were out of ideas.
I'm like, but... you already are taking ideas from other jobs, why not the ideas you havent used for a tank yet?!

(On a side note, as far as im aware, there is no MMO that has EoTs. We have HoTs, and DoTs, but never enmity. Have a tick of enmity every 3 seconds, oGCD. The closest thing is "the next actions have increased enmity for X seconds, but thats like lagarsse or rampart or berserk. Its not a pure effect, that ticks every server tick.) (EDIT: forgot to also mention SoT, "Shields" that proc a small Hp shield every 3 seconds. they could stack, or they dont have to, doesnt matter, but essentially equate HoT anyways)

Channeled abilities already exist on PLD, SCH, and AST, but arent the focus of the jobs. (IMO a channeled ability should be different from casting, in that you cant swift cast them, but you can use oGCDs durring them)
Of course SCH/SMN was designed as the DoT healer/casters. So its not so much they didnt make them, but so much as they made too many jobs with DoTs, and then took away most of them, or watered them down too much. Since they did it to help let people get full DoTs up on bosses in 24mans, they just need to do the sensible thing, and make certain jobs do DoTs, rather than EVERY job have a DoT. (a self buff that raises damage dealt would functionally add the same amount of complexity as a DoT.)

But yeah, I made a full list of all the ways in which u can functionally make a player "more tanky" in an MMO (not just FFXIV, as some wouldnt work with the current system) I can throw it up later.
This sort of logic can be applied to healers and DPS, indirectly. (I put more tanky in quotes, since its a bit hard to summarize in 1 word, due to how many different ways i came up with, that are rather different than what we have now)

EDIT: copied from a list I made. (Some of these are not possible for FFXIV without changes!)

...Increased Max HP (Thrill of Battle)
...Temporary HP (a Shield made of HP. Aldo, etc)
...Direct HP restoration (Small to large self heals. Clemency/Equillibrium, etc)
...Indirect HP restoration (Passive HP regeneration, or attached to other actions. Sole Survivor)
...HP absorption (Heals based on damage done. Soul Eater, Abyssal Drain, etc.)
...Increasing the amount of HP that is restored. (Spells/potions/actions heal for more. Convalescence)
...HP Shields in the above actions (Replace the word HP with HP Shield instead.)
...Alternate buff in above actions (Replace the word HP with a buff instead, buff being a word to represent alternatives below)
...Raising your defense to a/all physical damage. (weapon types included.) (Awareness)
...Lowering an enemies physical damage, on you, or over all. (Foresight/Raw Intuition)
...Magic defense to a/all types of magical dmg, in place of the 2 above physical examples. (Dark Mind)
...redirecting damage (damage a pet, ally, or alternative resource like MP/mana) (Cover) (This is the one with the most versatility, but has practically no examples of in FFXIV)
...Proc/Trigger based versions of the above types (such as a chance to nullify 100% dmg taken, like "Evasion/Stuns" or a chance of a lower amount of enemy dmg like parry/blocks, or a chance to absorb. Conditions met to trigger an effect on the list.)
...non stat avoidance (such as kiting or untargetability)
...Being the target of other allies heals/shields/buffs grants rewards to those allies resources. (Example, being healed reduces, or removes the cost of that heal.)

Right now SE tries to give a bit of everything to tanks, rather than making each tank built entirely around one of these themes (with a LITTLE bit of supplements from maybe another 1-3 on the list)

EDIT #2
Right now, DPS's main role is damage, and Healers main role is healing.
Healers are less about mitigation than healing in this game, but essentially could use any of the things on the tanky list, to help keep groups alive, in some shape or form.

Because of this, healers and DPS are better suited to be distinctive in how their individual gameplay functions, rather than how their damage/healing can effect HP differently.
(Tanks dont have to effect their HP, defense, magic defense, or evasion/blocking/parrying, in order to mitigate, so thats why the prior list wasnt about gameplay functions to do those very actions.)
A tank/healer/DPS can press a single button that directly does the action they need, or it can be a bit more complex, where a button sets up the next button, or a series of buttons or trades.
The only way the above list can indirectly influence how a DPS is built, is if a DPS has to damage things other HP. Such as attacking the enemies ways of mitigating. (which the above list demonstrates every way I can think of on a fundamental level)

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

More doesn't mean better.

Nice Troll OP.

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How is this a troll?

I'm not disputing the quality of SE's work here. I'm suggesting that they are run too thin.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Plenty of people have probably noticed my repeated quips about SE needing to actually hire a healer designer in the first place. Some of the commentary going around at the moment makes me think that this is something worth putting a little more context to.

Pl\e.

When I pitch into a thread with my lol SE needs to hire a healer designer I quite literally do mean that. Yoshida didn't deny us a 4th healer because of some disdain for the green team. Rather, at this stage there isn't really anyone with their hands on the wheel of the healer role. The team are simply too thinly stretched to give it the attention and time that it needs. Thus we end up with the last minute knee jerk changes that are riddled with flaws and shortcomings. This isn't even a new thing. Every single expansion has landed with glaring problems afflicting at least one of the healer jobs.

There is neither the manpower or the willpower to correct this problem within Yoshida's team at the moment and this will continue to be a problem until either he stops being stubborn and accepts that this is an issue or SE's beancounters open their wallets and let him get hiring.

TLDR: There's not much point complaining about SE's healer designers, they basically don't have any. :rolleyes:

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here we go again. someone who knows nothing about healing pulling from significantly other games to prove a point that is pointless. cant wait til june 28th so this healing hate SE phase pass and we can enjoy the masterpiece that SE worked so hard to make. man why people like you cat like this is a life or death problem. its a GAME its fun it works stop acting like this is so significantly important and stomping your feet for attention.

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Originally Posted by guardin

here we go again. someone who knows nothing about healing pulling from significantly other games to prove a point that is pointless. cant wait til june 28th so this healing hate SE phase pass and we can enjoy the masterpiece that SE worked so hard to make. man why people like you cat like this is a life or death problem. its a GAME its fun it works stop acting like this is so significantly important and stomping your feet for attention.

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I feel like your monitor is a mirror.

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Originally Posted by guardin

here we go again. someone who knows nothing about healing pulling from significantly other games to prove a point that is pointless. cant wait til june 28th so this healing hate SE phase pass and we can enjoy the masterpiece that SE worked so hard to make. man why people like you cat like this is a life or death problem. its a GAME its fun it works stop acting like this is so significantly important and stomping your feet for attention.

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Sebazy can provide feedback to the devs if she feels like it since she paid her subscription along with everyone else. It is not good to shut out others with differing opinions and pretend every single decision that the FFXIV team made is good. Although, some opinions on this game can be melodramatic, it is good for developers to read the general sentiment. I have not enjoyed the healing decisions in this game for a long time (since 2.0).

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Originally Posted by guardin

here we go again. someone who knows nothing about healing pulling from significantly other games to prove a point that is pointless. cant wait til june 28th so this healing hate SE phase pass and we can enjoy the masterpiece that SE worked so hard to make. man why people like you cat like this is a life or death problem. its a GAME its fun it works stop acting like this is so significantly important and stomping your feet for attention.

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Also lol at sebazy knowing nothing about healing. Then following up with the “you haven’t tried so you can’t know argument”. I can’t wait for the updated “yeah shb is out but you haven’t reached max level yet so you can’t know” with the familly favorite follow up of “yeah so you’ve reached 80 and have done ex trials but savage isn’t out so how can you even know”. Good times to come. I’m, tempted to say this is a troll since it’s basically text book discrediting yourself off the bat before you even made a point.

And as an FYI. Some people have tried the primal at E3. Granted it’s not much but it’s something.

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Originally Posted by guardin

someone who knows nothing about healing pulling from significantly other games to prove a point that is pointless.

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*cracks knuckles*

It's almost embarrassing to admit it, but I've got close to 20 years of experience healing in MMOs with a 4 digit magelo profile to prove it. Google up my name and you'll see my exploits in various early end games such as Planes/Sleepers/Kerafym's Lair in Everquest and Kings/Sky in FFXI.

More importantly, I've actually worked in games development (For the likes of Bullfrog up until their end in Chertsey) so I've got pretty solid experience of how these things tend to pan out.

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Originally Posted by guardin

man why people like you cat like this is a life or death problem. its a GAME its fun it works stop acting like this is so significantly important and stomping your feet for attention.

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I'm not sure I'm the one making this into a life or death problem here sir, nor am I stomping my feet. I'm simply highlighting an issue that's been apparent to me for some time now.

Honestly, it's actually quite impressive how unintelligent someone must be to actually white knight against a suggestion that could only ever improve not only the game, but also the quality of life for it's development team. Yoshida himself has regularly commented about how hard he works and I don't doubt him one bit, I suspect his team also works just as hard behind him. It could be a case of Yoshida stubbornly thinking his Team has it under control. But honestly, it's more likely to be a case of SE's finance department (The beancounters I mentioned) keeping a very tight leash on the game's HR budget, especially with the move to full voice acting.

So yeah, go take your silly white knight nonsense elsewhere. The grownups are trying to talk here.

Thanks <3

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

*cracks knuckles*

So yeah, go take your silly white knight nonsense elsewhere. The grownups are trying to talk here.

Thanks <3

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