Disappointment of Shoha/Feedback. Samurai Lv80 Skill.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

All the time? A decent chance every time I LDR? Whenever a new player needs it and I'm bored? For glamours? Presumably for cat book stickers if they carry on with that. And for every time this happens, I would definitely much rather have Senei than Shoha kicking around just to appease weird internet people and their hangup on an arbitrary number.

If you want Shoha fixed, stick to providing potential solutions to it, but don't go trying to get it swapped around, that doesn't make the ability any better and just shoots us all in the foot, long term.

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I barely get 61-69 dungeons when i queue for leveling roulette. The fact that you claim all the time is just false and you know it. You aren't doing more 61-69 content than 70 content. And it will be the same in ShB. You'll be doing more lvl 80 content than 71-79.

That being said, other people have offered better solutions to alleviate this problem. Probably far better than what i can come up with. Also your posts are still just unnecessarily hostile and insulting.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

I would definitely much rather have Senei than Shoha kicking around just to appease weird internet people and their hangup on an arbitrary number.

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Why do you keep insulting people and calling us weird and being hung-up on arbitrary numbers? Sorry that we are passionate about something we care about.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

There's nothing absurd in an opinion or feedback.

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"This ability sucks so please let me use it more." is an objectively absurd opinion and this is the practical effect of swapping shoha and senei's level, even if the intent is, "80 ability should be cooler!"

I don't disagree at all that shoha should be cooler. I disagree that changing the learned level does anything actually good for anybody.

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Originally Posted by Wynn_Storm

I barely get 61-69 dungeons when i queue for leveling roulette. The fact that you claim all the time is just false and you know it.

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It's not false, I've run all those dungeons in the double digits and the levelling primals a solid 30 times each, because they are fun and I like helping new players. Also, no shortage of times Khloe wants one of those dungeons done for her damned book.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

"This ability sucks so please let me use it more." is an objectively absurd opinion and this is the practical effect of swapping shoha and senei's level, even if the intent is, "80 ability should be cooler!"

I don't disagree at all that shoha should be cooler. I disagree that changing the learned level does anything actually good for anybody.

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You are straw manning so hard right now. You are cherry picking my post. My post is like the only one that suggested switching Senei and Shoha. And now you are using that as your definitive argument.

Don't take my post and use it as gospel. I don't speak for everyone in the thread. That was just my suggestion, not the OP's or many others.

I'm still in favor of lowering Senei's potency (which may have already happened) upping Shoha's potency (which may have already happened) and making Shoha combo off of Senei / Gyorhen(sp) The other 50 kenki cost one.

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Originally Posted by Wynn_Storm

You are straw manning so hard right now. You are cherry picking my post. My post is like the only one that suggested switching Senei and Shoha. And now you are using that as your definitive argument.

Don't take my post and use it as gospel. I don't speak for everyone in the thread. That was just my suggestion, not the OP's or many others.

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You posted it, other people agreed with it. It's a bad idea unless you want access to Shoha sooner so you can use it more which is ?????????? given the context of this thread and your other posts in this thread.

It's also not a strawman if that is the real effect of your proposed change. Please explain to me how having access to Shoha, an ability you claim to hate, sooner at the expense of getting access to an ability you presumably like is in your best interest. Even if you literally never run a leveling dungeon again, somehow, you've still screwed yourself for 5-7 story-mandated dungeons and 2 primal fights. And your end result is... the exact same kit you would have at 80 regardless.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Now you all know how I felt and still feel about Tornado Kick HAHAHAHAH.

On topic tho I do think the idea is weird. You only use meditate at certain points in the fight which is mostly down time and that's only for about 1-3 ticks of Meditate. So just having a skill to use right as a boss comes back up just seems... wasteful? Pointless? I don't know. Maybe it'll be good in the game.

I'm actually more worried about not being able to "eat" Sens in between trash pulls and boss transitions / jump phases.

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TK was amazing and everyone loved their rotations. man i feel bad for SE all these useless complaint and doom and gloom threads and no one has even played them yet outside the media. Just play, wait til 5.1 get some content under your belt and give it a chance.

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Originally Posted by guardin

TK was amazing and everyone loved their rotations. man i feel bad for SE all these useless complaint and doom and gloom threads and no one has even played them yet outside the media. Just play, wait til 5.1 get some content under your belt and give it a chance.

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This really isn't a Doom and Gloom. The rest of the stuff samurai got was great, I and some others just don't want this to be our final skill, rather how to use it.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

You posted it, other people agreed with it. It's a bad idea unless you want access to Shoha sooner so you can use it more which is ?????????? given the context of this thread and your other posts in this thread.

It's also not a strawman if that is the real effect of your proposed change. Please explain to me how having access to Shoha, an ability you claim to hate, sooner at the expense of getting access to an ability you presumably like is in your best interest. Even if you literally never run a leveling dungeon again, somehow, you've still screwed yourself for 5-7 story-mandated dungeons and 2 primal fights. And your end result is... the exact same kit you would have at 80 regardless.

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Why are you only focused on them? they just gave a suggestion just like everybody else. It isn't the only one, you seem to be thinking this is what everybody wants when its not, chill out. You're arguing just for the sake of it.

Look at my post again, I listed some suggestions from the Balance discord from samurai's/my own and Some from the Forums.

So far most like if it was tied to seigan in some way, which even you thought so..since its such a "meh" skill.

Also do you play samurai in anything not causal?

Not trying to offend but I just always find it shocking when people are ok with this ability.
Just from me asking around to get an idea, its normally the samurai's that don't do High level content at all tend to be ok with this skill on how it is or don't really care to push their job to the limit because they just do things like Dungeons and Eureka, unsync primals and 24man.

(Again, not trying to offend, nothing wrong with just doing relaxing/causal content)

I get samurai is a VERY accessible job so I understand a lot of people that like easier stuff love it since you can pull decent dps without trying but I really think you shouldn't be ok with this skill since even in dungeon, you'll hardly be doing this skill....unless you like...meditate right in the boss face or at odd times for no reason.

Its VERY subpar. This skill might as well not even be on the hotbar on how infrequent you're gonna be doing it on certain fight.

Were you around when Mnk got TK? you know how bad MNK's were trying to figure out a way to use it in their rotation? This is gonna be what happens to samurai if it doesn't change.
They wanted to use it because it looks awesome and its powerful but they couldn't and then come SB, Mnk's found a way to use TK finally and there was a lot of happy mnks.
(Then Shb comes along and kills the dream.)
Samurai's WANT to use this skill because its a offensive skill that has a new animation.
We only got Two New offensive skills and one of them is locked behind a dumb requirement.

My idea for a possible rework of Shoha would be to turn it into an amplified Shinten. Shoha would cost 100 kenki with a potency equivalency of between 4-5 Shintens. The high potency would make it a more efficient use of 100 kenki and a DPS gain over just using the 100 kenki for 4 separate Shintens. Kaiten would not be applicable to Shoha.

Since Meikyo, Ikishoten, and Tsubame-Gaeshi are all on a 1min CD, SAM seems to operate around a 1min cycle. Ideally Shoha would be on a 2min CD. This would fit very nicely into the rotation where it can be used after every other Kaeshi: Setsugekka and it would align perfectly with DNC's Saber Dance buff.

This 2min CD would create two rotation patterns that would be alternated between for the overall rotation. The first pattern would involve using Shoha in place of 4 Shintens and the second pattern would involve the use of 4 Shintens in place of Shoha.

This revision would increase SAM's burst window to even greater potential while not being a large increase to overall DPS. The large amount of burst DPS would allow SAM to become a solid candidate for receiving raid buffs. Its also an easy to understand and simple to use ability that meshes well with the rest of SAM's toolkit. I feel that this would be worthy of being a lvl 80 ability.

But then again, I'm not a theory crafter so maybe this would be completely broken?

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Bunch of stuff.

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I am picking on that particular suggestion because it sucks and this is the only place where our feedback might get heard and god help us if that's what they do to "fix" Shoha. Because I'm not happy with the ability either, just relieved it isn't something terrible like TCJ or Tornado Kick, which you mentioned.

Yeah, I was around for Tornado Kick and this ability isn't remotely near that bad. Shoha has obvious use cases and is always just free damage. sad times 50 potency of damage on occasion, but it's still free and if you've got the ogcd free, why not? Tornado Kick actually hurt your damage to use if you weren't smart about it, and you needed to have really tight fight knowledge to get any mileage out of it (though that's changed recently apparently). If you misuse shoha you aren't crippled for several gcd's like you are with TK. Well, unless you are misusing meditate to begin with anyway, but that's a different problem.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

I am picking on that particular suggestion because it sucks and this is the only place where our feedback might get heard and god help us if that's what they do to "fix" Shoha.

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I can't believe you are still attacking my post. My post, the only post that suggested that. Do you have no real basis for your argument? There are plenty of people in this thread who suggested a much better solution than i did. But no, you want to keep going at me and my idea that i threw out. The one that barely anyone agreed with.

I'm starting to think you are legitimately trolling.