An Angry Letter About Eureka Pagos

Best thing with all this discussion about casuals and non casuals is that nobody can decide what it means. as far as I'm concerned casuals raid, do relics, and everything else. casual just means you don't treat the game like some 2nd job. and that's the best way to play. the only way to have the most fun even.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

No casual player would even THINK about trying to put in the time required to create a relic. Try again.

Relics ARE NOT CASUAL CONTENT. If you think they are, you have no idea what it means to be a casual player.

The "casual" option is the upgraded Tomestone weapon - and some casuals will struggle to achieve even that.

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Relics are the casual player alternative to Savage weapons. They may take time to progress steps, but they can be done both by grinding it all at once or spacing it out, which appeals to the more casual mindset. The upgraded Tomestone for 370 requires Ridorana and outside of something like Void Ark, the 24 mans are not where you find the more casual players. Especially not a 24 man with the difficulty level of the Ivalice raids.

Ok what i see as casual or not is: If you are spending time at contents like "ex dungeons, roulettes, gold saucer, random pvp, mentor roulettes (yes mentors can be casual too, not that i wanna bring mentor subject here but a mentor doesn't mean hardcore), RELICS (YES ALL OF THEM INCLUDING EUREKA).

Semi hard-core content for me are extreme primals. They require you to know your job to a point, know the mechanics and memorize them, have a certain teamwork stuff like tank swaps, healing with your co-healer optimally, adjusting yourself for mechanics or doing some mechanics as a team etc.

Hardcore content for me, and well for most people i assume are savage and ultimates. They need you to do your dps rotations almost perfectly, you need to do mechanics almost perfectly, you need to have a decent opener that alligns with other party buffs and stuff, you need to bring food, you need to have a decent gear, you need to dps while healing (that's not optional here like casual healers say it!), you need to work as a team while doing mechanics as well. Overall you need to KNOW this game and your job.

Eureka = you can just spam stuff, watch netflix whatever. Other relics, you can do daily content. That's not hardcore. Try watching netflix while clearing savage. Those people put real effort to down those fights. While you are only putting time as an effort.

Casual is how much time per week you spend with the game. Nothing more, nothing less. Has no bearing on skill, though most casuals kinda suck 'cause they don't care enough to spend time looking up guides.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The upgraded Tomestone for 370 requires Ridorana and outside of something like Void Ark, the 24 mans are not where you find the more casual players. Especially not a 24 man with the difficulty level of the Ivalice raids.

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What.

Apparently, despite being on the same data center, we're in entirely different dimensions wherein one of us cries themselves to sleep at night thinking about all the wipes they had in Weeping City, Dun Scaith and Rabanastre (and LotA, and WoD...) because it's filled to the brim with casual players what don't give a hoot, and the other is hoarding all the instances where there ain't nothin' but flawless clears with more than two DPS caring enough to do more than auto-attack levels of DPS. If they can manage to stay alive more than 2 minutes.

Share with me you heathen!!


No really, this is a monumentally absurd claim. The alliance raids are possibly the most casual-friendly instanced content because personal responsibility is nearly nonexistent and there aren't hard enrages so zombie strats are perfectly valid. Provided a DPS check isn't looming, but even then 1~3 DPS can handle them. It's the entire reason alliance raids exist: As a catch-up device for casuals that don't cap Tomestones and returners that need gear.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

Casual is how much time per week you spend with the game. Nothing more, nothing less. Has no bearing on skill, though most casuals kinda suck 'cause they don't care enough to spend time looking up guides.

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Well some people use casual to mean the amount of playtime, and that's mostly meaningless. If casual can mean someone who only does guildhests or someone who clears ultimate then it doesn't usefully describe any subset of players.

Most people use casual/midcore/hardcore to describe the level of difficulty a player is comfortable with. Casual players do the story and probably dungeons, midcore players do EX and probably savage, hardcore players clear everything and probably complain it was too easy.

You know what I do when I don't like something ? I just don't do it. I don't make topics about it, I don't post on reddit about it, I just quietly don't do it. It's also known as voting with your wallet, (the only thing they understand).

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Most people use casual/midcore/hardcore to describe the level of difficulty a player is comfortable with. Casual players do the story and probably dungeons, midcore players do EX and probably savage, hardcore players clear everything and probably complain it was too easy.

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Well, but take me for example. I've logged maybe, I don't know, 30 hours in the game since March. I log in for ~2 hours on Friday night, otherwise I'm not on. At all. I haven't earned a single Tomestone since coming back about five weeks ago. I haven't done the 4.3 story. By anyone's definition, I should qualify as casual. And yet there is no content in this game that I'm not comfortable with - being opposed to wasting time in is another metric - so the definition falls a bit flat.

So working with that, weighing content by how much time it takes is a better fit.

Dungeons? Even if you barely know how to play it won't take more than 40~45 minutes to clear. So that's obviously casual. You can pick those up, play a little, and go about your day without a care in the world. As many do.

EX Primals? Especially without a guide, it's typically going to take you a couple hours to clear. Maybe a lockout, maybe two or more depending on overall skill for the group. Definitely varies encounter to encounter; not necessarily outside of the casual bracket, but also close to that fabled midcore thing people want more of.

Savage? First two floors are usually around EX Primal difficulty these days, and maybe take about as long to clear as the harder ones. But they have the added time investment of either recruiting via PF to hop in, or recruiting for/trying out with a static. That's most definitely beyond the scope of a casual commitment, even without factoring in how often the group would want to get together. Many people work odd hours and can't really commit to that sort of thing, so solidly in the midcore range.

Savage's third and fourth floors are where tons of people get caught up. Where midcore statics break, find replacements, and break again. The fights themselves take longer to learn and have far more wipes, more than some midcore players can or want to commitment to. But not all. So it's another transitional period, albeit one maybe on the far edge.

And then Ultimate. We won't even call it hardcore. By design, only masochists need apply. :p


On this scale, due to the time commitment associated with Relics - old and new - those would likely fall into that midcore range prior to nerfs. Tomestones would be the casual alternative, as is their design and reason for existing, and the Savage weapons are for the hardcore. Nice and tidy.

This also aligns with my experience with a super casual FC I spent 2 years in. Outside of their little midcore static, maybe 10 people (of 250+) finished the Anima last expansion. Not many more even started one. Fewer still have finished Zodiac Relics from what I had saw, even post-nerf, though in fairness I didn't see every member's avatar.

Note that you can arrive at the same result using both methods/reasonings, too. So perhaps it's splitting hairs just a bit.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

You know what I do when I don't like something ? I just don't do it. I don't make topics about it, I don't post on reddit about it, I just quietly don't do it. It's also known as voting with your wallet, (the only thing they understand).

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Voting with your wallet would be unsubscribing.

You unsubscribe after you leave feedback and they fail to acknowledge shortcomings, typically.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

You know what I do when I don't like something ? I just don't do it. I don't make topics about it, I don't post on reddit about it, I just quietly don't do it. It's also known as voting with your wallet, (the only thing they understand).

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You are entitled to not do content you don't like. I may have mistaken but your logic says something like "if content isn't being played, they will understand it is bad". And if i am not mistaken, you are trying to say "don't b*tch about it, just don't do it if you don't like it".

I will put aside the content getting old and being dead since coils, alex savage, diadem are at this point old content and less than %1 players do those in a regular basis right now. Which i believe eureka will be a dead content after some point as well. Unless they keep upgrading it in 5.0.

Anyway putting that aside, you should know that you not playing won't affect a thing. Developers won't realise it, nor care about it. There are probably hundreds of people not doing eureka for several reasons. Do developers care? No. Why should they though? Isn't it more logical that they care about people who DO eureka?

And how do we improve something we don't like? Well, it is simple: by giving feedback. They are the developers so it is up to them to review the feedback or not but if we don't give feedback, they would think " oh eureka is fine as it is". Because like i said there will always be people doing it.

Giving positivite critism is always good in my opinion and we can get this game in a better state if we continue giving feedback. There is nothing wrong about being verbal about it.

Again, i may be mistaken about your post but saying you don't make topics about it and replying here that you don't post about it seemed inconsistent to me.

I stopped going in there.

They are basing numbers off of people going into Eureka and how many people are getting to 35 and how many people are completing the relic.

IMO Eureka is worse than Diadem, at least in terms of Diadem it didnt contain the relic weapon and there wasnt content within the content that separated players like Pagos did.

I dont know what nerfs they can make to the content to make it playable but I probably wont go back into Eureka until a few months before the next expansion, hopefully by then it is nerfed into the ground.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

You know what I do when I don't like something ? I just don't do it. I don't make topics about it, I don't post on reddit about it, I just quietly don't do it. It's also known as voting with your wallet, (the only thing they understand).

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You posted here, hypocrite.

I'm not angry but I am completely disgusted by Pagos. I've played a lot of games over the years and Pagos is the worst gaming experience I have ever encountered.

Bouncing between 2 dragons for over an hour is no accomplishment. It requires no skill. It's not even a challenge except to stay awake. What kind of pathetic person thinks that is an accomplishment? It's not even a game, it's pure drudgery. Try the original Pong - a very similar game with similar skills, more fun though.

But to add insult to injury, the final Pagos weapon is pure garbage. I tested it through some solo dungeon runs and it made no difference whatsoever.

Essentially, I paid money to bore myself to death just to get a piece of garbage. That has tainted every aspect of the game for me now. I log in and just feel disgusted with the place. Can't even find the motivation to get that level 69 dark up to 70 for his final chapter of the story.

So this is me voting with my money. I will go from here to suspending my account, deleting the game and anything related to it. I'll never spend another dime or minute on Yoshi P or Square Enix. Pagos convinced me I have better things to do with my time.

Respond if you want to, don't care, won't ever see it.