What is it with some tanks, healers, and dps?

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Originally Posted by Adire

I doubt it. I wasn't even saying everyone who is disabled plays poorly. I myself have severe social anxiety, yet I push myself to excel. Disabilities are oftentimes uncontrollable. If they have a permanent effect on your play, there's nothing you can do. In his little list however, all of those things can be easily avoided if people are simply considerate of their groups.

Unfortunately, it seems some will argue day and night that we should accept that some players won't put in effort. If everyone stopped carrying said players through content, it would be interesting to see the results.

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Or maybe you should look in a mirror to how you come off?

It is kinda rude, The things he listed can happen at any moment with no control, telling people to leave like you are is pretty rude. And you really have no reason or excuse to be rude.

No one is carrying anybody. Stop using it as a scapegoat, to be rude to someone on the forums.


why do people like the buzzword "carry"? kinda sound immature imo.

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Originally Posted by Mejingjard

Worst case I saw : one of the healers in Dun Scaith was in /follow the WHOLE raid, we tried to kicked him several times but it was rejected everytime. The other healer struggled to keep us alive the best he could as he was short on gear.
He got nothing at the end of the dungeon while the /follow one got a Healer loot, and the minion at the end. Do you find that kind of situation normal ? That kind of player should not even had the right to roll on anything. That kind of player should not be able to complete a duty where other players had to play better only to compensate a lazy one.

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what could the devs do about it though? if the group failed to kick an obvious leecher, that person was probably in there with friends.
and regarding the loot. well what could be done about it. implement a dps check or a heal check, so you have to qualify yourself for the loot each fight? what about tanks? how much did they mitigate? and the OT?

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

what could the devs do about it though? if the group failed to kick an obvious leecher, that person was probably in there with friends.
and regarding the loot. well what could be done about it. implement a dps check or a heal check, so you have to qualify yourself for the loot each fight? what about tanks? how much did they mitigate? and the OT?

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if you take a cold hard look at what is really going on, you will take notice that most people replying are rude/selfish people who make up excuses to be rude/selfish. They don't want to actually help people, but be helped by people, aka "i want my duty done, and people are stopping me from getting it done" refusing to accept they are equally the problem with having a bad attitude.

If you didn't notice most of the replies are very negative to other people, if not picking a fight when called out. Such as the person who said everyone should leave because of random moments.

If you couldn't tell, people overly use the word carried.


fun fact, I never saw a lazy player. Not one so I wonder about who was lazy in their groups, they seem to be the only constant.

They don't/have yet to realize the reason for hostility from other is partly their fault. As in when they offer help and get snapped at. They never consider the person maybe was harassed previously when asking for tips. Or was given bad advice that got them kicked.


People on the NA datacenters like to assume the worst of people, as well as make bad assumptions on how the JP community works.

they don't like dead weight, but they do help each other. they typically have a 3 wipe and abandon rule for content. They see group issues as a group issue with no pointing of fingers.

while the NA side likes to point fingers and vote kick.

Ever consider that the "leecher" may not have been leeching, and you're not paying attention? Have you ever considered that you was the problem not others?

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

Ever consider that the "leecher" may not have been leeching, and you're not paying attention? Have you ever considered that you was the problem not others?

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Well I was the MT, so if i was slacking of, it would have been seen quickly :D
And yes, when i see a player moving exactly where another one move, and not casting any single heal or dps skill, while the other one has almost no dead time, i dont think I am part of the problem, when I do my best to have the least time without a cd to help that poor healer that had to do everything, when i do my best to sustain my own HP with some of my skills to help again the only healer that was trying to compensate the other one, I dont think i am the problem. When one healer is full MP and the other one is flirting with 0 mana, there is something wrong, and it is not the fault of another player.

Otherwise, I know there is not much to be done for preventing players to go afk in a middle of a fight, except maybe more mechanics like those on Ozma, were someone not paying attention can cause a wipe.
I don't understand how we can defend wanting to get through content without having to play with a minimal lvl of attention :/

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

Or maybe you should look in a mirror to how you come off?

It is kinda rude, The things he listed can happen at any moment with no control, telling people to leave like you are is pretty rude. And you really have no reason or excuse to be rude.

No one is carrying anybody. Stop using it as a scapegoat, to be rude to someone on the forums.


why do people like the buzzword "carry"? kinda sound immature imo.

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If calling out people for being lazy and forcing groups to cope with their unnecessary shortcomings is rude, then I'm proud to be rude. You have every right to get high and join a dungeon and be useless, or spend the entire dungeon autoattacking because you want to play with your cat, or whatever, just be ready to deal with the consequences. Part of being an adult is dealing with consequences and not contributing to your group's success may very well have them.

Really wish self discipline and self improvement were common values in society. It's pretty sad that people find apathy and laziness acceptable behavior in teamwork endeavors.

Palace of the dead is one side of the problem.

While it's fun and I enjoy it plenty it gives the wrong sensation on how a class is designed and the difficulty you will encounter outside. It also generates a huge problem: instead of spending time leveling with dungeons as we did they level up too fast, gearing themselves too fast to jump into "end game" way faster than any of us did when 2.0 came to live. Everything it's so easy at that point they just take what they've learned inside the Potd as the way the game is to be played.

Try it, send a new player in there, tell him he will be able to level faster with the class he wants and then throw him in a serious dungeon or raid for the first time.

I don't want to generalize, I know everyone it's not like that, I have found players I could talk with, guide them as I could within my knowledge while some learn by themselves looking for information.

But... It's how it has get, by my opinion at least.

Sometime Tank can lose aggro because of many reasons :x ilv diffirences with dps, over heal of healer by exemple. But there bad tanks and good tanks. We do all our best ! But i know some people are just lazy to do fully their role.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

I've also been in runs where it's been a combination 2 of the 3 or all three making for a very long and trying run. This has happened while doing the expert roulette, some of the latest content to be released. I know ppl have different skill levels but when they're struggling with basic skills that are taught in the hall of novice how do they get that far into the game and still not know what they're doing?

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One thing is not every had done the Hall of Novice, because it didn't exist back then and had to figure things out on their own. Another could be someone coming back from a long break and trying to remember how things go. Also, it could be someone just hit 60 and now is learning the rotation with all skills unlocked.

I can't blame POTD for this. Or FATEs, or Leves, or anything else. I have a friend who exclusively levels through dungeons, usually getting low ones where most of his skills are locked in the roulette, and every time he gets a job to 60 I have to beg and coax him to understand basic gameplay mechanics. He's been playing for years and considers me a god of healing just because I don't macro my heals (he still does) and can heal way faster than he can even though it's his main. I die avoidably every time I play with him. We're working on it, but some people don't learn no matter how 'correctly' they get from 1-60. Nothing's stopping people doing POTD or FATEs from reading their abilities properly or trying to figure out new ways to use them together. The Netflix show they're watching on the other monitor is stopping that, but people can (and do) successfully run dungeons with exactly the same lack of care.

The game's content is simply very easy, and the actual challenges are in situations where other players can cover for you (full party+ content). Even if you're trying, there's too much going on to figure out optimisations on the go. I'm hyper aware of how I learn since I struggle with things like spatial awareness in games - not to the point of having a recognised handicap so much as a personal weakness - and prefer to be very comfortable with my job to do harder content without burdening anyone. What would help me a lot would be undersizing (not unsyncing) current content so I can go into new fights and learn the arena and phase one mechanics all on my own before dragging a learning party in to study later parts of the fight; the fact that I'm not allowed to perform this very simple self-improvement exercise annoys me.

I think the story fights should always be accessible, but sign me up for actual difficult lowman content (savage dungeons when) to push people to their limits a bit more often, please. A lot of mediocre players aren't interested in raiding in a big group, but they'll hit a wall and learn they need to improve much faster if challenging content is made available to them without needing to find a full party.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

I know ppl have different skill levels but when they're struggling with basic skills that are taught in the hall of novice how do they get that far into the game and still not know what they're doing?

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