To people who complain about "elites".

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Yes GMs have flat out said kicking for any reason is okay, except for parsers, which is a banable offense. The devs have stated that its a don't ask don't tell policy, because it's viewed as harassment. My point was parsing should not be expected to be a part of each run. I shouldn't go into a run expecting to be parsed, and if someone is parsing they should be careful. People are dicks, someone could get kicked for a legitimate reason but if they are aware of the parser they can report you for it, which hurts you not them.

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Yes, but do you honestly think I'll tell you? If you were horrible enough I sought a replacement, I'd either disband the group and reinvite people who were good or point out poor performance without citing numbers. My point is, you could report me for suspicions of parasing, but having no proof. It wouldn't go anywhere. Regardless, you will generally be parsed in extremes and especially savage. That's just the way it is. Chances are if a group suddenly disbands. One of them was parsing and they wanted to get around kicking bad players.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Yes, but do you honestly think I'll tell you? If you were horrible enough I sought a replacement, I'd either disband the group and reinvite people who were good or point out poor performance without citing numbers. My point is, you could report me for suspicions of parasing, but having no proof. It wouldn't go anywhere. Regardless, you will generally be parsed in extremes and especially savage. That's just the way it is. Chances are if a group suddenly disbands. One of them was parsing and they wanted to get around kicking bad players.

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And this is exactly why I don't understand why people who are doing extreme and savage content would be against an official parser. Whenever you join this highest difficulty content, someone is parsing this content 99.9%. If you're being kicked and / or accused of doing poorly, wouldn't you rather know the facts (your numbers compared to the requirements and everyone else in the group) than be kicked or accused blindly... And it would also prevent people who are performing poorly from placing the blame on others.

I don't do top tier content as I don't have the resources, now that I've said that, here's what I really want to say:

We have a great tool now in game in the form of Stone, Sky, Sea (SSS) that allows every player to practice rotations & get used to content, albeit solo & without all mechanics (?). SE missed a huge trick by not including the ability to have a "must have cleared SSS by 85%" (for example) setting on PF groups to ensure that only those who should know their job can get in. We have passworded PFs so this would be no different. By joining such a group you are agreeing to maximise your DPS where appropriate.

Another option is a locked PF whereby to join you must send proof you can clear SSS or have a parse calculation using SSS DPS Calc.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I don't do top tier content as I don't have the resources, now that I've said that, here's what I really want to say:


Another option is a locked PF whereby to join you must send proof you can clear SSS or have a parse calculation using SSS DPS Calc.

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I agree, this was a real missed opportunity. inb4 idiots who say SSS is unrealistic as it does not include mechaniccs. Honestly, I cannot think of a single mechanic in the game that would actually increase your DPS relative to a dummy except Ravana's DPS stance. If someone cannot output acceptable DPS in a controlled environment with zero external friction, it is highly unlikely they will do well in the actual fight.

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

I agree, this was a real missed opportunity. inb4 idiots who say SSS is unrealistic as it does not include mechaniccs. Honestly, I cannot think of a single mechanic in the game that would actually increase your DPS relative to a dummy except Ravana's DPS stance. If someone cannot output acceptable DPS in a controlled environment with zero external friction, it is highly unlikely they will do well in the actual fight.

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Have a feeling I've completely misread your post, but anyway... problem I see with SSS maybe, is I main BLM. Rotation is entirely scripted. The ONLY challenge of blm is sticking to rotation as closely as possible while still managing movement, and minimising it as much as possible. Pew-pewing at a dummy doesn't really help, anyone can easily do the blm rotation without moving.

Then again, I don't know if the SSS for BLM is artificially increased to account for that

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

anyone can easily do the blm rotation without moving.

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You would be wrong on this account.

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Originally Posted by Taika

And this is exactly why I don't understand why people who are doing extreme and savage content would be against an official parser. Whenever you join this highest difficulty content, someone is parsing this content 99.9%. If you're being kicked and / or accused of doing poorly, wouldn't you rather know the facts (your numbers compared to the requirements and everyone else in the group) than be kicked or accused blindly... And it would also prevent people who are performing poorly from placing the blame on others.

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That's my stance as well. When I started Savage this tier, I parsed rather low for Dragoon. Seeing my numbers, I found little ways to improve and also recognized where it was merely gear disparity. I also have my own internal competitiveness. I want to beat my previous parses. I want to beat or stay close to my groups. Why? It's silly fun. While there will undoubtedly be people who ridicule people mercilessly, I still feel significant contributor to people not doing high damage is they don't even realize it. If you've been playing one way the entire time and it's worked. Why would you ever think to question it? Being able to see or be told your exact numbers gives feedback: "Wait? Why is this Monk so much higher than me? What are they doing different?"

What I'll never understand is why they couldn't official sanction the parse everyone uses or make their own and simply ban people who harass others. It's not like they don't know virtually every raid group has at least one person parsing. There's a whole site with all our names on it.

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

I agree, this was a real missed opportunity. inb4 idiots who say SSS is unrealistic as it does not include mechaniccs. Honestly, I cannot think of a single mechanic in the game that would actually increase your DPS relative to a dummy except Ravana's DPS stance. If someone cannot output acceptable DPS in a controlled environment with zero external friction, it is highly unlikely they will do well in the actual fight.

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The problem isn't that the dps is unrealistic in SSS. It's that it is a snapshot of performance, and not an indication of current behavior. I see plenty of people who can obviously perform, but aren't for whatever reason.

If someone's doing badly enough you won't clear, you don;t necessarily need a parser to know this.

It's a second-hand story, but I once watched my partner in a nidex learning party at the later end of the patch where it was introduced, so the dps checks still required people to be something resembling awake. Over and over again, they failed on the dps checks despite doing the mechanics pretty much perfectly, at least after the first couple of times. Who was responsible was obvious even to me, watching for two minutes over her shoulder, and she's on ps4 so she CAN'T parse.

Like, I queued for zurvex completion the other day for the first time, after wiping to soar/adds/maybe tethers over and over again in p1 practice. From my experiences in p1 prac, after the soars, I moved him to the edge to prepare for wave cannon, which I had seen every. single. time. beforehand.

I got DESTROYED by the party. "don't move him from the centre" "wtf are you doing tank" "do you know how to tank this?" from some incredibly confused and frustrated dps. They didn't even know you could SEE wave cannon in part 1. The dps in p1 practice runs was just that terrible I had learned a bad tactic to compensate. The more you know, I suppose? (And, yes, I admitted why I'd done it, and explained what I'd seen and what I hadn't, and was given some very friendly guidance and a "watch me mt" from the War who, as far as I could tell, had either cleared before and was helping friends or had seen enrage a bunch. It was really useful and I'm grateful they took the time to talk to me about it!)

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Correct but how do those player know they are playing wrong all they ever here from random people is hey do this I've yet to see a single person go "hey you should visit and check out the guide for your class" as the tooltips don't tell you everything.

@Greedalox I'm a veteran mmo player and like all mmos they don't teach you how to play the game when it comes to high level content so this was my first stop when i decided to hop into raiding.

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I don't really suggest going to look at guides during a dungeon, but I do suggest hey would you like some tips? Sure okay here is the blm aoe rotations, here is warrior cd rotation on large sets of mobs. I have and still go into dungeons with them and walk them through the skills of their job. I know I am not the only one. Ex fights are not the best places to do the same unfortunately.