Regarding Full Party Premades in Frontline and Patch 3.5

Perhaps an indestructible device with an uninterruptable cast time, located inside the spawn area, that when triggered will insta-gib enemies within range?

A team could still attempt their "spawn camp" strategy, but at the risk that they would be defeated near-instantly. Maybe additionally, being killed by such means would impose a longer-than-normal respawn timer.

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Originally Posted by phantom23

This is 1v1v1 spawn camping is not an issue, dont feed them they will be forced to leave and deal with the third alliance claiming all the objectives and out numbering anybody not currently at the spawn camping point. Wait for your alliance to show up and remove the campers by force. Biggest issue is communication , people dont like to listen but they sure do like to complain.

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I've only seen spawn camping in two scenarios

1) The spawn camping team is very close to winning and it is faster to focus on kills than the PvE objective. For example, Twin Adder is at 1585/1600 points and they just need 3 kills for the win, so they go to Maelstrom's spawn to get them.

2) One GC is throwing the match so that another GC will lose (and, incidentally, the third GC wins). For example, Maelstrom really doesn't want Twin Adder to win, so they throw themselves at Adders endlessly, forcing Adders to constantly fight them, and allowing Immortal Flames to get all the objectives and win.

For the first scenario, I don't really see a problem with it. It doesn't happen too often, and when it does it's for a very short time.

The second scenario is something we will never be able to fix. Even if you made it impossible to spawn camp, you will never be able to prevent people from throwing all logic out the window and throwing themselves at one team.

Exactly what someone before me posted, this reply is catered to JP community not sure about NA.

In JP PVP the scenarios yoshida mentioned happens alot of times and players have been complaining. Not sure about NA ways of PVP, in JP there usually a "macro" commander who would issue orders to the alliance whether to stop attacking, retreat, move to (A,B,C) position or destroy ice.

Then we have static PVP Party. Oh god why is this a thing? This group of players would usually break off from the rest of the alliance and goes to raid/kill other GC spawn point. It's incredibly frustrating.

Introduce invulnerable guards next to the spawn that can range attack opposing players for ten times their health when they get within a certain range.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Can someone please explain to me what the issue is with players coordinating, cooperating, and communicating in a...

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME?

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The issue is that they had an unfair advantage against the other players. These aren't a random group of people coming together in the instance to work as a team, they are a team going into an instance solely to obliterate the others. It's not pleasant to play against such people as it's not balanced at all.

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

In JP PVP the scenarios yoshida mentioned happens alot of times and players have been complaining. Not sure about NA ways of PVP, in JP there usually a "macro" commander who would issue orders to the alliance whether to stop attacking, retreat, move to (A,B,C) position or destroy ice.

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Having experienced this, where I was randomly slotted into a JP team that had macro's for everything, including the ice spawn patterns, it was amazing. But I do understand where they are coming from because 24 coordinated players absolutely steamrolled the other GCs, who I can only assume where made of randoms. I've been on the other side of the fence as well, where you're getting steamrolled, and it's pretty demoralizing.

I don't think any of their proposed fixes will actually do anything tho, as a single pre-made team can still use alliance chat to attempt to force the other teams into co-operating, and opposing that is simply a matter of using the chat to try and use some tactics. And spawn camping is simply a matter of just sitting there waiting for either enough of your team to respawn so you can push back, or your team to return to spawn to smash the campers from behind (or go steal their tomelith).

There are certainly macro commanders on JP data centres who post everything (mostly Shatter because there are a lack of Seal Rock games). To be honest, games on JP that I've experienced have been (mostly) equally balanced compared to the games I've seen on NA. If there were 8 man premades on JP, I wouldn't know because most of the time PUGs are actually competent and can play as well as a premade.

The problem lies with the skill level difference on NA between full party premades and randoms. Most of the people who have been making 8 man premades are seasoned PvPers who just steamroll over the randoms (probably for the Garo event) that are put against them, leading to more one sided games that aren't as fun for the latter.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

The issue is that they had an unfair advantage against the other players. These aren't a random group of people coming together in the instance to work as a team, they are a team going into an instance solely to obliterate the others. It's not pleasant to play against such people as it's not balanced at all.

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It is very well balanced, everyone has the same tools in this game. Learn to play your class, learn to communicate better and you can indeed win against pre-mades. Playing against better players in return makes you a better player. Analyze what went wrong and work from that. Cry about pre-mades all you want but they also started off at a low level of play. The amount of people who refuse to get good is just hilarious.

Restricting premades from queuing with other premades doesn't seem like a NA issue. Regardless, I don't think it would alleviate the sheer brute force of even a small group of specific players (even 5/8 premade) in 72 man matches and their clear impact on the victory of their entire alliance.

There is a particular group players on Primal, where if they're currently queuing as a premade, will almost certainly win a vast majority of the time. New players just have no idea what is happening and lack the experience to effectively counter even a small squad of experienced pvpers.

It is absolutely possible for one premade to dominate an entire 72man fight.

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Originally Posted by JRosa

It is very well balanced, everyone has the same tools in this game. Learn to play your class, learn to communicate better and you can indeed win against pre-mades. Playing against better players in return makes you a better player. Analyze what went wrong and work from that. Cry about pre-mades all you want but they also started off at a low level of play. The amount of people who refuse to get good is just hilarious.

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No matter how good you are, you alone can't carry 23 other people. And expecting 23 random people to be as good as you or better is silly. It isn't silly however when it's a premade though.