Extensive Feedback: Healing in The Feast (4v4 Solo)

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Originally Posted by Koltik

No, their staple is healing. Divine Seal....

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You do realize SCH and Astro can do as much pressure as White Mage, right? Scholar has the ability to apply Miasma on targets, reducing healing done to them. This would set back a healer by a lot, especially when Stefan is 100% right about not being able to heal through raw damage even while standing there spamming your biggest cure spells.

Astro also brings cards to the table which also can enhance the parties DPS or apply more survival.

White Mage also relies on Fluid Aura to relieve instant pressure off of them while being chased. You aren't going to be able to move and heal much as White Mage as opposed to a SCH or Astro.

If you got rid of CC for White Mage, they would be useless in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Slib

You do realize SCH and Astro can do as much pressure as White Mage, right? Scholar has the ability to apply Miasma on targets, reducing healing done to them. This would set back a healer by a lot, especially when Stefan is 100% right about not being able to heal through raw damage even while standing there spamming your biggest cure spells.
Astro also brings cards to the table which also can enhance the parties DPS or apply more survival.

White Mage also relies on Fluid Aura to relieve instant pressure off of them while being chased. You aren't going to be able to move and heal much as White Mage as opposed to a SCH or Astro.

If you got rid of CC for White Mage, they would be useless in PvP.

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You're not wrong in the sense that AST and SCH both have abilities to affect healers, however as mentioned already these are mitigating effects, not hard counter effects. WHM is the only class that can stop healing entirely for extended periods of time. This is not fair gameplay by any stretch of the imagination.

Everyone keeps going back to the fact that FA is needed to relieve pressure. I disagree. Last I checked WHM can Blizz 2 just like SCH / AST, they can sprint just like SCH/AST, and they can heavy just like AST. They also have Prism, which we all know is the best PvP ability for healers. They can also LOS, just like SCH/AST, and have three regens that they can use to keep topped off while LOSing / Kiting DPS.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

You continue to redirect attention to me as a player, rather than the argument itself. The problem is that WHM gets two powerful control abilities that the other two healers have absolutely no response to. ..... A WHM\\'s job is to keep their team alive, heal them, not secure kills. Fluid Aura and Repose were not created with PvP in mind. They\\'re fluff spells.

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1) I am responding to you as a player because you are stating opinions based off of personal bias and not on logical theory or facts.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

1) I am responding to you as a player because you are stating opinions based off of personal bias and not on logical theory or facts.

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(Mobile double post)

2) A WHM's job IS to help secure kills. SCH and AST can also assist with kills in the form of miasma, aura blast, retrogradation, celestial opposition, and balance cards, to name the more potent spells. Also, your argument that these spells were not designed with pvp in mind is partially false, as repose has already seen multiple nerfs in pvp. The reality though is that NONE of the spells in a class/job's arsenal were originally designed with pvp in mind except for the pvp specific abilities. However, they are still true to their purpose: they are spells designed to peel and control enemies which are threatening the healer and their party.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

1) I am responding to you as a player because you are stating opinions based off of personal bias and not on logical theory or facts.

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Fact: White Mage can Knock a healer out of LOS of who they are healing, binding them for 8 seconds, and then follow it up with a sleep.

Fact: Scholar and AST can not do anything to effectively counter this, nor can they retaliate vs the enemy healer.

Fact: All healers are balanced perfectly fine for healing potency, with the exception of AST whose Noct shield is severely nerfed in PvP.

Fact: Fluid Aura and Repose are not necessary in PvE, nor are they in PvP. WHM has just as many tools as AST/SCH have to stay alive without these abilities.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

(Mobile double post)

2) A WHM's job IS to help secure kills. SCH and AST can also assist with kills in the form of miasma, aura blast, retrogradation, celestial opposition, and balance cards, to name the more potent spells.

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Fluid Aura, which is a 30s oGCD ability, cannot be compared with ones that are on 2-3 minute CD's. Not to mention the fact that CO is a stun, which has its DR shared by 90% of classes, and only lasts 2 seconds, not the potential 24 seconds of FA + sleep.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

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How often do you even play WHM, to claim everything you say is a supposed fact.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

You're not wrong in the sense that AST and SCH...

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That is very true that White Mage can shut other healers down, but that also comes with other classes and their roles too.

For instance, a ninja and their 12 second bind that hasn't been reduced to 8 seconds. If they use this on dps, that's 12 seconds of being absolutely useless. DRG and MNK can't do this.

Paladin being able to shut people down for 7 seconds each every minute and doesn't break on damage. This is insane utility that other's can't do.

My point is every job in each role has its own benefit.

But this thread is something totally different. From my understanding what was discussed was lowering the ability for melee to carry groups. I can agree with Stefan that healer has a very hard time being able to carry a group, even with Repose and Fluid Aura. It would help a lot while being CC'd if healers weren't so punished with all of the damage buffs / LB's / Culling / Medals didn't stress them as much.

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Originally Posted by Slib

That is very true that White Mage can shut other healers down, but that also comes with other classes and their roles too.

For instance, a ninja and their 12 second bind that hasn't been reduced to 8 seconds. If they use this on dps, that's 12 seconds of being absolutely useless. DRG and MNK can't do this.

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They are sacrificing damage to do this 12 second bind. WHM is sacrificing nothing by using their Fluid Aura on a healer.

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Originally Posted by Slib

Paladin being able to shut people down for 7 seconds each every minute and doesn't break on damage. This is insane utility that other's can't do.

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All tanks play completely differently. Paladins sacrifice a ton of damage and burst to have the aiblity to lock people down. They also cannot use any other abilities while stun locking.

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Originally Posted by Slib

But this thread is something totally different. From my understanding what was discussed was lowering the ability for melee to carry groups. I can agree with Stefan that healer has a very hard time being able to carry a group, even with Repose and Fluid Aura. It would help a lot while being CC'd if healers weren't so punished with all of the damage buffs / LB's / Culling / Medals didn't stress them as much.

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One purpose of this thread, as Stefan said himself, is to make healing more enjoyable and accessible. I say again, balancing healers so that one healer can not completely shut down the other is one of many improvements that can be made to accomplish this.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

I'm sorry, but this feedback is not meant to open discussion based on the balance between healers, it is meant to open discussion about how the game systems of The Feast drive people away from playing the healer role, and my suggested fixes to make healing (and therefore learning how to heal) a bit less insane.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

They are sacrificing damage to do this 12 second bind. WHM is sacrificing nothing by using their Fluid Aura on a healer.

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WHM Sacrifice self/member survival or ability to push back a paladin running in their face to stun lock them during burst moments by using Fluid Aura on a healer.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

All tanks play completely differently. Paladins sacrifice a ton of damage and burst to have the aiblity to lock people down. They also cannot use any other abilities while stun locking.

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PLD can have focus target macro to stun target while having kill target targeted and stun the healer, shift to the kill target if near by and full swing + spirits within for damage, go back to healer and stun them. You only need a few seconds in a stun to kill someone if dps are half decent.

White Mage sacrifice a lot of healing opportunity to sleep healers. Sleeping healers is mainly done because enemy dps are failing to pressure hard enough, letting the White Mage cast reposes all over the place OR because the enemy healer attuned and is a good opportunity to land a kill after it wears off in their sleep. You are also sacrificing a lot of MP...sometimes biting you in the butt in the end...especially if you have a summoner or BLM on the team.

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Originally Posted by Slib

WHM Sacrifice self/member survival or ability to push back a paladin running in their face to stun lock them during burst moments by using Fluid Aura on a healer.

PLD can have focus target macro to stun target while having kill target targeted and stun the healer, shift to the kill target if near by and full swing + spirits within for damage, go back to healer and stun them. You only need a few seconds in a stun to kill someone if dps are half decent.

White Mage sacrifice a lot of healing opportunity to sleep healers. Sleeping healers is mainly done because enemy dps are failing to pressure hard enough, letting the White Mage cast reposes all over the place OR because the enemy healer attuned and is a good opportunity to land a kill after it wears off in their sleep. You are also sacrificing a lot of MP...sometimes biting you in the butt in the end...especially if you have a summoner or BLM on the team.

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I'm not disagreeing with Sleep so much as Fluid aura. Sleep is balanced in the sense that you are putting yourself in immediate risk if you sleep when someone needs a heal instead. It sets you back. It is counterable with LoS due to its cast time, or if they swiftcast it again the WHM is sacrificing one of their few insta heals to sleep you.

Fluid Aura is the true problem. 30 second oGCD that serves as not only an interrupt, but a LoS tool, bind tool, and a way to get a healer out of position. All while being instant cast and oGCD. No other healers have anything remotely close to this.

Your point is 100% valid, you only need a few seconds of any sort of CC or heal interruption to kill someone. Fluid Aura gives the WHM a chance to do this every 30 seconds for free.