Ranting about Regen

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Originally Posted by Asheilin

I actually found Neverreap to be the more difficult.

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Fractal has way more damage incoming than Neverreap. Double pulls in Neverreap are a joke (unless tank suddenly decides to go and tank all wasps and a tree). New i145 healer in fractal may have some problems with healing (let alone dpsing) if the tank is not very well geared. Overall I can't say that end game dungeons are trivial especially if you're not only healing like a bot, but also trying to contribute some DPS to the fight.

As for Regen, it's a very useful skill, just needs timing. Although for some tanks it is a forbidden skill, that plagues their sole existance and they think the best way to get rid of it is to curse and banish the poor healer even if this healer uses Regen with extreme caution during the fight.

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Originally Posted by Iris_BP

Fractal has way more damage incoming than Neverreap. Double pulls in Neverreap are a joke

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I consider Neverreap more difficult, too. Fractal dmg is so much easier to avoid. Pretty much no normal AoEs on the floor so all you need to heal is the tank, room-wide AoEs can be circumvented by killing the mobs first who use them, etc.
Neverreap is different, especially with melees. Every group of monsters has several AoEs and melees basically NEVER move out of them (usually because they are invisible below the tank/dps' own AoEs).
Having to heal everyone just as much as the tank is tiresome and eats up mana crazily fast. Later mob groups apply vul+ to all melees, so they take even MORE dmg from every AoE they stand in. And don't even get me started on the final boss that just generally hates ALL casters.. u_U
I had a lot more "wow, I can't believe I got us through this without anyone dying!" moments in Neverreap than in Fractal, at least.

(for both dungeons, I'm refering to situations with max pulls, obviously. doing it mob by mob is something even a SCH bot's fairy can heal all by herself..)

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I consider Neverreap more difficult, too. *Snip*

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I guess it's a matter of perspective. I honestly think Neverreap is much easier, yes, last boss and tornadoes can be annoying, but really nothing hard. With fractal tho you have to be very careful while stance dancing because tank recieves a lot of damage and can drop while you are DPSing. Countles times I saved my ass with a timely tetra/qcure2 or even bene. Just pokerface and pretend it was planned all along (because sometimes it is). Also somehow it's a good way to farm comms xD In neverreap this problem is absent because of lower incoming damage to the tank. Yes, melee DPS can stand in crap, but the point is, generally when dps gets hit hard he/she will realise that something is wrong and will be more cautious, hence less damage recieved. I never sweat too much over DPSs health, unless it falls more than 50%, because while tank is alive you're still rolling, if tank is dead that's it. Also timely HoTs help with damaged DPS. Or maybe I've just got more experienced players in NR, who knows, but never had any problems there.
In general it's just my playstyle that makes the difference for me. I tend to let tank's health get really low before switching out of CS, then top it off, then switch back to CS and so on. With this it's harder when incoming dps is higher on a tank. I know not everyone likes this playstyle but it's very DPS efficient and also showy!

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Originally Posted by Iris_BP

As for Regen, it's a very useful skill, just needs timing. Although for some tanks it is a forbidden skill, that plagues their sole existance and they think the best way to get rid of it is to curse and banish the poor healer even if this healer uses Regen with extreme caution during the fight.

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And for some healers, it's the go-to skill (together with Medica2) to be used at all times; if the tank doesn't have a regen ticking at some point during the run, something's wrong.

As long as the HoTs come during the fight instead of pre-emptively, they're excellent. The easiest runs I had of WoD was when there were several WHM in the different parties and they all kept their Regens up on the main tank. Each tick healed more than enough to keep them alive during the bosses, and even during the last boss it made things a lot easier for the healers in the MT's party.

The focus of this thread's rant is regarding those healers who think it should be cast before a pull or at the same time as a pull. ^^;


(As for Neverreap vs Fractal... I like them both, but when people are still undergeared/on-level, Neverreap bosses take a lot longer. The first time me and an FC mate ran it (with two other friends who were barely above i180), the last boss took so long it wasn't even funny anymore.)

I've never had this be a problem as a tank. If you cast regen spells I use convalescence and do my normal opener, I haven't had a mob run for the healer due to regen. But I understand that not everyone does this.

Honestly just let them die then and they will learn! Sorry but I remember learning how to heal and reading about it when doing Sashtasha and one of the first things always mentioned is how healing causes aggro and only to use Regen once the tank has gained aggro first. Like others mentioned it's possible sometimes that you don't notice and accidentally hit it right at the end of a pull, as I use it sometimes as a sort of half instant heal if I don't need to restore a ton of HP but tetra is on cool down or whatever. It's rare though and usually I just say sorry about that no hard feelings. If someone at level 60 is popping Regen or MedII that often that they are constantly pulling aggro between pulls, then they sound like a really bad healer.

I used to be big on MedII at the start of all pulls (after tank has gained aggro) so that I can DPS a little as well and not worry about others, but I find with the level 60 content there's several times where adds spawn or whatever (like A1 with Faust) where having MedII on just causes all adds to go right to me. Also for most instances there's not really a need to keep MedII up on the DPSs as they don't take enough damage to warrant it. So instead I just use Regen on the tanks and DPS away, keeping Medica II for times when DPS are taking lots of damage, or when doing the actual main boss fight like Oppressor.

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Originally Posted by Amnesia

But also keep in mind that a healer will sometimes cast Regen near the end of the fight, not realizing that the fight is going to end soon...

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yeah...this has been getting me. I'll check the health on all the mobs thinking i'm good...then suddenly out of nowhere this big beam of light comes down and everything that was at 25-50% HP is now dead, and tank is heading for a new set of mobs. I can never tell when someone is about to use some amazing skill to wipe them all out lol. Still not familiar with what new skills the other jobs got.

I think at the end of the day though, a single Regen shouldn't cause much trouble. Most pulls are a fair distance away from one another, meaning even if you do hit the tank with Regen at the end of a pull, they can still be far ahead of you grabbing the next pull. It's more an issue if you literally follow 2 feet behind them.

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Originally Posted by Raji_Lev

Look, I get it, heal-over-time spells are nice and all. You love them, hey, I love them too! So when I click off your Regen / Medica2 / Aspected Benefic / Aspected Helios outside of battle, it's NOT because I hate you and/or want you to feel bad. It's because I don't want to see every single mob EXCEPT the one I tagged make a beeline for you the instant Regen ticks, before I can start AoE'ing them, and I'm guessing you don't want them chewing on your face either. It gets even more awkward when I'm trying to pull multiple packs, since I'd REALLY rather not turn around to pick up those stragglers who decided you look delicious.[/SIZE]

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My reply to every single tank that has this problem is A) Get some real aggro. B) Put on some fending gear. C) Learn to use cooldowns.

Seriously I would stop pre-regening tanks if I thought they weren't so damn squishy. You can't use DPS gear and not use cooldowns. Even one my favorite friends does this. His damage is great but he is so bloody squish that I can't do any safe/consistent DPS while he pulls. Whenever I find the good tanks that do good damage AND aren't squishy my happy meter shoots through the roof and the pre-regens stop.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

My reply to every single tank that has this problem is A) Get some real aggro. B) Put on some fending gear. C) Learn to use cooldowns.

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I'd say the key to the post you responded to was "before I can start AoE'ing them". 'Real aggro' doesn't really matter if we aren't even given a single second to apply it. Especially with the regen ticks coming pretty much once every GCD as it is: Tomahawk, meet mobs halfway, get ready to Overpow.....damn, mobs escaped from in front of me to beeline for the healer. Sure, it's definitely possible to get them back before they squish said healer, but it causes a fair amount of unnecessary chaos
As for Fending vs Strength gear... I wouldn't be surprised if there are Leatherworkers -- sorry, healers -- who'd give the exact opposite advice, with the motivation that Strength accessories make it easier to hold 'real aggro', instead of 'more HP means I don't have to be so paranoid about healing'. *shrugs*

In my experience, there are generally two types of tanks that neglect their cooldowns:
1: The unsure ones -- either because they're new to the game or don't main tank or some other reason -- in which case the panic to keep mobs from running away due to premature regen isn't likely to help, and they're not always likely to ask the healer to please stop.
And 2: The cocky ones, who -- either out of overconfidence or flawed training or some other reason -- believe that "a good tank doesn't need cooldowns; it's the healer's job to keep me alive". These ones... yeah, they aren't fun to deal with ^^; (Sometimes, it's tempting to counter-argue with something like, "A good whitemage doesn't need Cure II; it's the tank's job to withstand damage," just to show how irrational their argument is.)

Of course, not every tank who forgets their cooldowns belong to one of those two, but the majority of them does ^^;