"Hi, im new"

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Originally Posted by Lharz

The thing is, there're, like, one million guides on the internet allowing everyone to know a dungeon, or at least boss strats, before entering this said dungeon. So even "I'm new" is not an excuse, imo.

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See, now this is the kind of thinking I don't get. Why the hell would a new player, clearly enjoying the game long enough to reach that point, EVER have to look up a guide for a dungeon they have yet to run? That's like asking someone to know the ending of the story before actually reading the book. The kind of backwards thinking that dissuades a lot of people in certain roles, tanks and healers especially, who are pressured to know and anticipate mechanics of certain fights and have their abilities and gear prepared beforehand. In my case, I always ask prior to starting dungeons/trials if the players know what to do and give them a bare-bones rundown and anticipate a wipe. Then answer their questions and allow them to learn at their own pace.

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Originally Posted by Ykronix

See, now this is the kind of thinking I don't get. Why the hell would a new player, clearly enjoying the game long enough to reach that point, EVER have to look up a guide for a dungeon they have yet to run?

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It is simple. Do you care more about yourself or your group?

The players who read guides are more prepared for the fight than they were before reading them. Even when they learn almost nothing.

I can't understand why would you waste other players' time when you can easily read up info about the run before your queue gets ready. It just looks really lazy imo.

Seems someone answered for me.

Dungeons are not solo play. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

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I guess your outlook really depends on what's more important to you- clearing content or experiencing it. If you're main concern is getting through with little to no hassle, you'd be better off forming a pre-made part with like-minded people. Otherwise, I honestly just see it as unreasonable to expect every person you're grouped with on Duty Finder to just automatically know what to do in a dungeon. Often people are in it for MSQ purposes, are continuing from main missions and probably don't even have time to bother running to a computer to look up a guide before their queue is up.

Of course, this entitlement to 'other players' is going to be argued to death- I've seen a lot of them, with the obvious disregard for the people who spent less time playing than the impatient veterans who feel they owe them nothing.

I think (personnaly, so I don't take my opinion as the official almighty truth) that people who wants to experience the game to the point of intentionaly avoiding to read guides & stuff (for spoilers reasons probably), these guys are far, reaaaaally far from being the larger part of the players base. But I might be wrong. And anyway, that's doesn't invalidate Archaell's (and mine also) point above.

So yeah, pro players should find their statics (which they do), but in that case, "RolePlay / Casual / <insert whatever you want>" players should do this too.

Oh and, yeah, just a little side note, spitting on players who want performance before experience is just as dumb. Just sayin'.

Edit : also I forgot to point something. If these players don't want to spoil themself and want to experience the game as if they play solo, then why 99.9999% of them ask for boss strat before engaging ? Tell me.

If someone wants to run content "blind", the only way to really do it is to form a PF of all blind runners. Otherwise you are just kidding yourself and having others with experience do the bulk of the work to cover your own laziness.

Dungeons can be run fairly easily with a blind person or two, or even a group. But if you are going into trials or raids blind, you are in the wrong and being selfish to your group. Those are complicated fights with many mechanics that can wipe the group. Your need to see the non existant story there doesn't hold water. Most guides don't show the cutscenes, and if it's a written one, they don't include the story, just bullet points. Please stop making excuses for having others carry you.

Also:

There is a big difference between not knowing the mechanics in a new dungeon, and not knowing your role basics by level 60, which is what the thread is actually about.

Don't assume my trying to support new players is 'spitting' on veteran preferences. For anything to be known, someone had to experience it first. Someone can be spoonfed a strategy or learn to do it on their own terms-keyword here is 'compromise'. To speak like people feel entitled to a quick clear despite someone else never having run and wanting to actually want to experience it on their own pace is just as bad as expecting veteran players to come and waste their time overcompensating for a group that isn't prepared for it. Both sides have their compromises, but damning one side because you think its 'lazy' or 'elitist' doesn't help the playing community as a whole, to encourage new players to keep playing and do the same to those newer than them, and in my personal opinion, puts it a step higher than other games just because it fights to keep that toxicity to a minimum.

And my response started in response to one specific post, not the thread, fyi.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

It is simple. Do you care more about yourself or your group?

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Myself. Now what? Did i ever claim to care about you? xD

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I can't understand why would you waste other players' time when you can easily read up info about the run before your queue gets ready. It just looks really lazy imo.

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I wouldnt wanna read/watch full summaries before seeing a movie. And no I do not mean the story of ff14.
The movies plot is the equal to the games mechanics, design, artwork and everything that can experienced.
Also, i cant. I miss the pop when i close game to open ps4 browser and read for minutes. Good point tho

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Originally Posted by Lharz

I think (personnaly, so I don't take my opinion as the official almighty truth) that people who wants to experience the game to the point of intentionaly avoiding to read guides & stuff (for spoilers reasons probably), these guys are far, reaaaaally far from being the larger part of the players base. But I might be wrong. And anyway, that's doesn't invalidate Archaell's (and mine also) point above.

So yeah, pro players should find their statics (which they do), but in that case, "RolePlay / Casual / <insert whatever you want>" players should do this too

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Also just a view, BUT if you DID consider it fact and review the topic it might share light:
As far as 0815 dungeons go, the majority does them blind. I did all of them, never got kicked or failed one, take hints thinking its guys who have exp/ run this and WANTING to tell, and happily live on after finishing it now knowing better. Same if people who went out to read guides but dont say a thing "carry". If im scrub and fail AND party does i applaud for good content teaching me, not textlines

Since its the majority, they get beneficially catered via df and even forced other players to play along via roulette. There was another thread, maybe ill edit in link. They dont need to find anything, its the df

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Edit : also I forgot to point something. If these players don't want to spoil themself and want to experience the game as if they play solo, then why 99.9999% of them ask for boss strat before engaging ? Tell me.

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A) they really care 0, not to preview stuff, but can also take spoilers without gettin their exp ruined. Its not like you telling them "kill add xy, it buffs boss" showed them anything of the content a yt video had. And its not like you would tell them LOTS of DETAILS they could use but wont really need. Guides are different. You are lazy too, so its need to know basis ("spoonfed")

B) they have experienced certain players enough to know "ok i can clear ALL of this blind, but theres usually 1 or 2 wipe inducing exceptions easy to tell. If we do wipe, they cry. Ill offer a compromise

C) im sure your numbers are off. Maybe 50 will let you know its their 1st run overall, 33 of those 50 might ask for tips specifically, thinking you get upset if they fail cuz no knowledge but wont explain by yourself despite that entry line. Few will care to wipe themselves as you seem to be trying to suggest. They just offer a compromise to others in many cases. If all are new they sometimes wipe a few till they get lucky, OR, figured it out themselves (hmmmmmmm spoonfed is highly subjective. These guys work hard to learn, no?). There can be even talk among them like "okay any of you noticed how this works?"

D) why is the answer 80 percent of the time "the usual. Dodge aoe, kill adds before boss"? I read that guide a couple of times trololo